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The PC Police strike again
Topic Started: Sun Dec 1, 2013 4:27 pm (826 Views)
CaptainJaneway
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The Captain's back...

Alisium
Mon Dec 2, 2013 8:17 pm
What bother's me is any entity that pushes a holiday in order to make a buck, then refuses to even identify said holiday by name because it may "offend" someone.

:yes: exactly. Remember a few years ago the ruckus with Lowes? They sold Holiday Trees..

:confused: I don't think Menorah's are traditionally hung off of a tree. Neither are Kwanzaa candles. But its not PC to call it a Christmas tree. I don't hear anyone calling a Menorah a holiday candle holder?

Either Lowes got so much back lash over that or they finally grew a pair cause you can find a Christmas Tree on their site now. Target appears to be riding the fence. You can find a Christmas Tree and a holiday Tree on their site.

K Mart, god bless them, continues to embrace the American Holidays. I go out of my way to shop there. Wal Mart and Target have forced their number of stores to shrink but there are still some around. To me, its worth the drive. Besides where else can you find a Slurpee, a blue light special, layaway and underwear promoted by jingling nuts all in one place.
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CaptainJaneway
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The Captain's back...

spocklet
Mon Dec 2, 2013 4:59 am
Madam is of Jewish descent, though we're both Buddhist. But if someone wishes her a happy Hannuka, she'll smile and wish them it back, and what's wrong with that ?? We wish and get wished a Merry Christmas, happy holidays etc etc. It's just polite, no need to mobilise the troops !!!
:yes: the world would be a better place if more people had that mindset and approach
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wissaboo
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sorry, but the only people I ever see complaining about it are people complaining about it being called a holiday. Not people complaining about the word christmas.
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CaptainJaneway
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wissaboo
Mon Dec 2, 2013 10:50 pm
sorry, but the only people I ever see complaining about it are people complaining about it being called a holiday. Not people complaining about the word christmas.
:axe: that is because the PC Police have silenced them, since most of the media is Liberal you don't see all angles

Watch Fox News then any of the other networks and you would swear you were living on two different planets
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stigmata
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CaptainJaneway
Mon Dec 2, 2013 10:56 pm
Watch Fox News then any of the other networks and you would swear you were living on two different planets
I saw Fox news once. They were saying a load of stuff about the UK that wasn't true. I didn't know you were allowed to do that on the news
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spocklet
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Live long and prosper.....!!

stigmata
Tue Dec 3, 2013 2:39 am
CaptainJaneway
Mon Dec 2, 2013 10:56 pm
Watch Fox News then any of the other networks and you would swear you were living on two different planets
I saw Fox news once. They were saying a load of stuff about the UK that wasn't true. I didn't know you were allowed to do that on the news
Yeah they do that sometimes if they want to stir up some trouble and controversy, it gives them something to talk about especially if there's not much happening in the world. The media likes to manipulate events for it's own ratings, see the Truman Show for example !!
R.I.P. Gummy, we'll miss you bro
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wissaboo
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:rolleyes: I'm never going to watch Faux News
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Alisium
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Womb-Raider

wissaboo
Tue Dec 3, 2013 7:54 am
:rolleyes: I'm never going to watch Faux News
Then how can you have an opinion? A specific one about Fox, that is.

Not that I'm advocating Fox in any way. In fact, I'd prefer if people gave up "main stream" new sources all together.

But, with that much content and all the inherent nuances, how do you inform yourself intelligently w/o first hand knowledge?
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Mojochi
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...........................

stigmata
Tue Dec 3, 2013 2:39 am
CaptainJaneway
Mon Dec 2, 2013 10:56 pm
Watch Fox News then any of the other networks and you would swear you were living on two different planets
I saw Fox news once. They were saying a load of stuff about the UK that wasn't true. I didn't know you were allowed to do that on the news
You are if you think YOU make the news or ARE the news. They've taken propaganda to a level I'd previously thought impossible... not to say they are an isolated case, just a flabbergasting one. They're not newscasters. They're proselytizers in a newsroom setting
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Mojochi
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Alisium
Mon Dec 2, 2013 8:17 pm
What bother's me is any entity that pushes a holiday in order to make a buck, then refuses to even identify said holiday by name because it may "offend" someone.

It also bothers me that there are people out there who do everything they can to white-wash culture and push some kind of universal unitarian utopia on all of us.

I would never open a store in Vancouver, push the Hindu holy-day of Ganesh Chaturthi, have a prominent statue of Lord Ganesha and call it a "holiday person". Because that would make me a fucking asshole.

When you put this in your store:


And tell everyone to call it a "Holiday Tree", you are a low-brow, nit-witted, unimaginative fucking asshole.

It's too easy and inaccurate to blame it on mere greedy commercialization. It goes far beyond the department store doors, and the message people like me get is, "Hey asshole, your culture is worthless and offensive." If it's not okay to do this to some, why is it okay to do this to anyone? Why not a little consistency?

The tail wagging the dog bullshit is just that, a stinking pile of bullshit. When 96% of a population celebrates a holiday and when only 76% of that same population is even nominally "Christian", it illustrates that holiday as a cultural phenomenon rather than just simply religious.

The best way forward, is for all of us to get a chance to share our backgrounds, beliefs and cultures with each-other. Not constantly fret about who's offending whom.
But the truth is that Christianity usurped the evergreen tree as a symbol from pagans anyhow, but that's not my point anyway. I'm not disputing your point, because I think TONS of stuff done in the commercial world is low-brow, nitwitted & unimaginative, including your gripe. My point is, that's just par for the course with them.. If Yom Kippur was mocked up by Jews & made snazzy so the whole world liked it, it would happen with it too.

Ultimately, it was Christians that pimped their own holiday so it would be more widely accepted, who started it down that road of being a cultural phenomenon, because that's how you get people to come into the fold. So now, it is more about cartoon elves & flying reindeer than it is about your Christ. They made it about shiny wrapped gifts & decorated trees so it would become more popular.... and it did

As a result, it is a cultural phenomenon, & now we all share in it. Look at me. I'm an atheist, & yet, I and a few of my atheist friends are totally willing to celebrate Christmas with people, because, more than being about Christ, over ages it has been made into a holiday that recognizes a need for peace, charity & unity, for ALL. That's where the universalism came from, them trying to appeal to the world. Wouldn't your Christ actually like that, a celebration of brotherhood? but what I see now is there's a backlash from Christians who object to this, & want to return to it being a Christian holiday, exclusively. Too late, Dude. It hasn't been that in a looooong time, and this dispute over it now just makes it like any other day we end up bickering about petty differences

Start getting comfy with the reality that most of the "Christmas" ethos is all a publicity stunt, developed because at heart, we all WANT a holiday that we can celebrate together with those kinds of values

If it's any consolation to you... Some day they won't even call it Christmas anymore. It's not like the guy was born on 12/25 anyway, & more important than Jesus, is what the book says he believed in, the need for human kind to find a time to come together, & atheists just have to give in an accept calling it Christmas, because Christians conquered the Western world & that's just how it is now, but it shouldn't stop us from finding time to be good to one another, whatever the reason

If I had a religious day & it had become that to people, I'd gladly consider it worth losing the fundamental edict of it for the betterment of us all, even if that included having to tolerate shills & pimps running their con game in its name, because it's still a good thing that happened because of the religion (Which is wondrous rarity, honestly)
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spocklet
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Live long and prosper.....!!

Quote:
 
more than being about Christ, over ages it has been made into a holiday that recognizes a need for peace, charity & unity, for ALL


Yeah true, ever thought of becoming a Buddhist Mojo ??
R.I.P. Gummy, we'll miss you bro
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VioletCloud
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Water Tribe!
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CaptainJaneway
Mon Dec 2, 2013 10:56 pm


Watch Fox News then any of the other networks and you would swear you were living on two different planets
No shit!

The "news" is pathetic.... both sides.

All I ever see when I watch the news is a bunch of news casters opinions.

Im a moderate person.... and none of these stations are moderate... its all extreme this or extreme that.. ugh.


Each side is as bad as the other.. I dont bash FOX, CNN, or MSNBC... cause they are all equally as bad and full of shit.. they just sell it differently
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Mojochi
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spocklet
Tue Dec 3, 2013 7:52 pm
Quote:
 
more than being about Christ, over ages it has been made into a holiday that recognizes a need for peace, charity & unity, for ALL


Yeah true, ever thought of becoming a Buddhist Mojo ??
Nah... I don't really need an organized system or a belief structure in order to live my life . Trust me. All the hippies I ever knew tried to sell me on some thing or other, Taoism, Buddhism, Astrology. It's all just different shapes of the same vessel. I got my own cup & I choose to fill it in my own way. I'm me, & I don't need to be in a group to remind me of the value of life or to take sides in a debate about the meaning of it. So much time in our history has been wasted in being caught up with everything that's not a part of our reality. That's a damn shame, seeing how badly our reality needs us to work on it


My final point about the frequented topic is that I'd probably feel differently, more sympathetic, if we were talking about a merchandiser selling "Guy nailed to a cross" figurines & refusing to let anyone refer to them as crucifixes or Christ on the cross, or beaded necklaces with crosses on them but not calling them Rosary Beads. Those are trademarked Christian idols. All the other Christmassy kitsch that we adorn or world with this time of year is up for grabs in my book, because it's all random symbolic stuff that people can own any way they choose, which is why they grabbed it up & glommed it onto Christmas in the 1st place
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wissaboo
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Alisium
Tue Dec 3, 2013 8:45 am
wissaboo
Tue Dec 3, 2013 7:54 am
:rolleyes: I'm never going to watch Faux News
Then how can you have an opinion? A specific one about Fox, that is.

Not that I'm advocating Fox in any way. In fact, I'd prefer if people gave up "main stream" new sources all together.

But, with that much content and all the inherent nuances, how do you inform yourself intelligently w/o first hand knowledge?
I've seen enough of it to know it isn't really news.
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spocklet
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Live long and prosper.....!!

Yeah ok dude, no worries !! :)
R.I.P. Gummy, we'll miss you bro
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Alisium
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Womb-Raider

Mojochi
Tue Dec 3, 2013 3:14 pm
Alisium
Mon Dec 2, 2013 8:17 pm
What bother's me is any entity that pushes a holiday in order to make a buck, then refuses to even identify said holiday by name because it may "offend" someone.

It also bothers me that there are people out there who do everything they can to white-wash culture and push some kind of universal unitarian utopia on all of us.

I would never open a store in Vancouver, push the Hindu holy-day of Ganesh Chaturthi, have a prominent statue of Lord Ganesha and call it a "holiday person". Because that would make me a fucking asshole.

When you put this in your store:


And tell everyone to call it a "Holiday Tree", you are a low-brow, nit-witted, unimaginative fucking asshole.

It's too easy and inaccurate to blame it on mere greedy commercialization. It goes far beyond the department store doors, and the message people like me get is, "Hey asshole, your culture is worthless and offensive." If it's not okay to do this to some, why is it okay to do this to anyone? Why not a little consistency?

The tail wagging the dog bullshit is just that, a stinking pile of bullshit. When 96% of a population celebrates a holiday and when only 76% of that same population is even nominally "Christian", it illustrates that holiday as a cultural phenomenon rather than just simply religious.

The best way forward, is for all of us to get a chance to share our backgrounds, beliefs and cultures with each-other. Not constantly fret about who's offending whom.
But the truth is that Christianity usurped the evergreen tree as a symbol from pagans anyhow, but that's not my point anyway. I'm not disputing your point, because I think TONS of stuff done in the commercial world is low-brow, nitwitted & unimaginative, including your gripe. My point is, that's just par for the course with them.. If Yom Kippur was mocked up by Jews & made snazzy so the whole world liked it, it would happen with it too.

Ultimately, it was Christians that pimped their own holiday so it would be more widely accepted, who started it down that road of being a cultural phenomenon, because that's how you get people to come into the fold. So now, it is more about cartoon elves & flying reindeer than it is about your Christ. They made it about shiny wrapped gifts & decorated trees so it would become more popular.... and it did

As a result, it is a cultural phenomenon, & now we all share in it. Look at me. I'm an atheist, & yet, I and a few of my atheist friends are totally willing to celebrate Christmas with people, because, more than being about Christ, over ages it has been made into a holiday that recognizes a need for peace, charity & unity, for ALL. That's where the universalism came from, them trying to appeal to the world. Wouldn't your Christ actually like that, a celebration of brotherhood? but what I see now is there's a backlash from Christians who object to this, & want to return to it being a Christian holiday, exclusively. Too late, Dude. It hasn't been that in a looooong time, and this dispute over it now just makes it like any other day we end up bickering about petty differences

Start getting comfy with the reality that most of the "Christmas" ethos is all a publicity stunt, developed because at heart, we all WANT a holiday that we can celebrate together with those kinds of values

If it's any consolation to you... Some day they won't even call it Christmas anymore. It's not like the guy was born on 12/25 anyway, & more important than Jesus, is what the book says he believed in, the need for human kind to find a time to come together, & atheists just have to give in an accept calling it Christmas, because Christians conquered the Western world & that's just how it is now, but it shouldn't stop us from finding time to be good to one another, whatever the reason

If I had a religious day & it had become that to people, I'd gladly consider it worth losing the fundamental edict of it for the betterment of us all, even if that included having to tolerate shills & pimps running their con game in its name, because it's still a good thing that happened because of the religion (Which is wondrous rarity, honestly)
So...

Okay, I don't think I'm making the connect that I want.

You and I are of the same mind. I don't really care about Christmas as a religious holiday (honestly, I'd go pagan as I think that'd be way more fun :alisium: ). Like you said, it's a grown far beyond a religious holiday into a cultural phenomenon. I'm happy for that. I think the broader message of peace, love and brotherhood is the way to go. Honestly, the religious aspect of it all really does nothing for me as I am agnostic*. But, it's OUR cultural phenomenon, why should we be ashamed of that?

What upsets me is the hippy garbage PC bullshit, for no real good reason and applied unevenly to one group of people. Like I was saying, we should celebrate our differences. We've gone the complete opposite way from freedom of expression, to a point where we are intolerant of, and oppress anything that isn't considered PC. And it just gets worse as people hunt for ways to be offended. It's just very very sad.

Hence, my original statement about The Giver.


*I may cause some confusion as I do go to a Christian church regularly. I go because it's important to my wife. I love her and support her so I compromise.
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Alisium
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Womb-Raider

wissaboo
Tue Dec 3, 2013 10:39 pm
Alisium
Tue Dec 3, 2013 8:45 am
wissaboo
Tue Dec 3, 2013 7:54 am
:rolleyes: I'm never going to watch Faux News
Then how can you have an opinion? A specific one about Fox, that is.

Not that I'm advocating Fox in any way. In fact, I'd prefer if people gave up "main stream" new sources all together.

But, with that much content and all the inherent nuances, how do you inform yourself intelligently w/o first hand knowledge?
I've seen enough of it to know it isn't really news.
It's not. Like VC said, neither is CNBC, MSNBC or CNN... OR CBC and BBC. I really resent the mainstream media market in it's entirety.

Of all of them, I think Al Jazeera and RT News probably does best. But, I still don't trust everything they tell me either.

I think it's very sad when people pick a favorite and take what they say for gospel and use that to inform their opinions.
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Alisium
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Womb-Raider

wissaboo
Mon Dec 2, 2013 10:50 pm
sorry, but the only people I ever see complaining about it are people complaining about it being called a holiday. Not people complaining about the word christmas.
Well, that's counter-intuitive. Because if no one complained about "Christmas" we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Someone, lots of some ones have to have been complaining about "Christmas" in order for this nonesense to start in the first place.
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wissaboo
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What is sad is that the United States used to be a society where impartial news reporting was an ideal that people actually strived for. Where people could be confident that when they turned on the news it would be news and not opinion. Where the fifth estate was considered a necessary pillar of democracy.
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wissaboo
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Alisium
Wed Dec 4, 2013 7:37 am
wissaboo
Mon Dec 2, 2013 10:50 pm
sorry, but the only people I ever see complaining about it are people complaining about it being called a holiday. Not people complaining about the word christmas.
Well, that's counter-intuitive. Because if no one complained about "Christmas" we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Someone, lots of some ones have to have been complaining about "Christmas" in order for this nonesense to start in the first place.
right, cause people and the media never get all worked up about something that has little basis in actual fact.
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