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Boston, you're my home; I heard the news today, oh boy
Topic Started: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:46 pm (1,860 Views)
spocklet
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Live long and prosper.....!!

wissaboo
Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:51 pm
Spocklet, enough, this isn't a thread that should be taken over by your one up manship. Take any further comment to pm.

Any further posts that are not on topic will be deleted.
Yes ma-am, understood !!
R.I.P. Gummy, we'll miss you bro
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jespah
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Published Sentient Marsupial Canid

I think the funerals are all done now.

The teamsters went to Krystle Campbell's funeral, to keep the Westboro 'Baptist' 'Church' from picketing. Good - the last thing that woman's family needed was a circus.
Once Ixalla was ready, Tathrelle cornered her. “Before we leave for work, I just want to tell you, I’m sorry. I guess I sort of shut down last night. I know you were in pain and I wasn’t too terribly supportive.” There was a wall covering in the main part of their chamber, something that Tathrelle hadn’t noticed before. She stared at it for a second and then shook her head.

Outside, a disembodied voice announced from a hidden speaker, “It is time to travel to all daytime places of employment. Transportation sleighs are available and ready. Citizens are encouraged to thank the sleigh drivers at the end of a successful transport. The government recommends haste, and requests that all pregnant persons be given preference for seating in their designated areas.”

A little distracted, Ixalla just asked, “Pain?”

Untrustworthy - by me, actually. It's for sale on Amazon
- Yeah, I'm a published author
jespah
My author page on Facebook
Author of Untrustworthy



Posted Image Posted Image I blog about Startrek fanfiction..

Honk if you love silence.
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spocklet
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Live long and prosper.....!!

Somewhat dismayed that I was the only one selected for criticism, however...!!

wissa
 
Any further posts that are not on topic will be deleted.


On topic, I understand that the bombers are/were both christians. That being the case I have a question - which part of THOU SHALT NOT KILL did they not understand ?? I'm a Buddhist not a christian, but it would seem to me that their god's commandments are pretty self-explanatory - THOU SHALT NOT, and not open to question or interpretation in ANY way. THOU SHALT NOT - not now, not ever, not for any reason !!

I also understand there's some question about the remaining bomber getting the death penalty, and that he should rot in jail ?? Well, I've no wish to be cruel or anything, but I think in this case the punishment should fit the crime. So, put him in an open space, with a backpack stuffed with 100 pounds of Semtex and a couple hundred nails and ball bearings etc. Give him the same chances he gave the innocent people of Boston !!
R.I.P. Gummy, we'll miss you bro
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Alisium
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Womb-Raider

spocklet
Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:51 am
Somewhat dismayed that I was the only one selected for criticism, however...!!

wissa
 
Any further posts that are not on topic will be deleted.


On topic, I understand that the bombers are/were both christians. That being the case I have a question - which part of THOU SHALT NOT KILL did they not understand ?? I'm a Buddhist not a christian, but it would seem to me that their god's commandments are pretty self-explanatory - THOU SHALT NOT, and not open to question or interpretation in ANY way. THOU SHALT NOT - not now, not ever, not for any reason !!

I also understand there's some question about the remaining bomber getting the death penalty, and that he should rot in jail ?? Well, I've no wish to be cruel or anything, but I think in this case the punishment should fit the crime. So, put him in an open space, with a backpack stuffed with 100 pounds of Semtex and a couple hundred nails and ball bearings etc. Give him the same chances he gave the innocent people of Boston !!
Both bombers were Chechen Muslims. I don't think any knows for sure if the murders were religious or political in nature.

I really don't mind evil persons who murder dying. However, I'd rather not give the government the right to kill anyone.
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spocklet
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Live long and prosper.....!!

Alisium
 
Both bombers were Chechen Muslims. I don't think any knows for sure if the murders were religious or political in nature.

I really don't mind evil persons who murder dying. However, I'd rather not give the government the right to kill anyone



On the first point, I knew they were Chechens but not their religion, and don't know the Muslim point of view on killing. So my apologies on getting that wrong, sorry dude !!

On the other point, I fully agree entirely. My post was IF the bomber had to die for his crime (though maybe I didn't express it quite clearly enough). Don't think we're ever gonna get rid of the death penalty per se, but it does save the taxpayers a lot of money by keeping it as an option - and make the criminals think twice about their plans !!
R.I.P. Gummy, we'll miss you bro
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jespah
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It doesn't save much $$ - lots of appeals when the death penalty is at issue (some of those appeals are automatic).

I am more than happy to see a trial, and that is what I want. We are a nation of laws, and enforcing them through a prosecution is a great message to send to the world - send us chaos and we will shrug it off and will not be swayed by it. We will handle things our way. You don't get to dictate our agenda to us.
Once Ixalla was ready, Tathrelle cornered her. “Before we leave for work, I just want to tell you, I’m sorry. I guess I sort of shut down last night. I know you were in pain and I wasn’t too terribly supportive.” There was a wall covering in the main part of their chamber, something that Tathrelle hadn’t noticed before. She stared at it for a second and then shook her head.

Outside, a disembodied voice announced from a hidden speaker, “It is time to travel to all daytime places of employment. Transportation sleighs are available and ready. Citizens are encouraged to thank the sleigh drivers at the end of a successful transport. The government recommends haste, and requests that all pregnant persons be given preference for seating in their designated areas.”

A little distracted, Ixalla just asked, “Pain?”

Untrustworthy - by me, actually. It's for sale on Amazon
- Yeah, I'm a published author
jespah
My author page on Facebook
Author of Untrustworthy



Posted Image Posted Image I blog about Startrek fanfiction..

Honk if you love silence.
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spocklet
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Live long and prosper.....!!

Well, on the subject of cost, I was thinking of the money required to keep the bomber locked up for life with round-the-clock guards etc, against the cost of a needle in the arm !!

Yeah am sure there'll be a trial, but as you say that'll be accompanied by all kinds of appeals. And I love your definitions !!
R.I.P. Gummy, we'll miss you bro
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AWOLangel
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i don't think massachusetts has the death penalty,
but they're going to file federal charges which will
allow the option of that punishment.
All that I am, or hope to be, I owe to my angel mother.--Abraham Lincoln
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Mojochi
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...........................

spocklet
Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:51 am
On topic, I understand that the bombers are/were both christians. That being the case I have a question - which part of THOU SHALT NOT KILL did they not understand ?? I'm a Buddhist not a christian, but it would seem to me that their god's commandments are pretty self-explanatory - THOU SHALT NOT, and not open to question or interpretation in ANY way. THOU SHALT NOT - not now, not ever, not for any reason !!

Well, I've no wish to be cruel or anything, but I think in this case the punishment should fit the crime. So, put him in an open space, with a backpack stuffed with 100 pounds of Semtex and a couple hundred nails and ball bearings etc. Give him the same chances he gave the innocent people of Boston !!
This really confuses me on multiple levels. Overlooking the fact that they weren't Christian, even if they had been, it would hardly be the first time a Christian had killed someone, nor is that commandment an absolute by their own values as written in the Bible. Death is a punishment in the Bible. As such, the commandment obviously has a wider definition to them than the absolute "not now, not ever, not for any reason"

So really, that's your way of interpreting their rule, & as such it seems misplaced to then follow up by supporting the death penalty. As a Westerner, I assume that your Buddhism is of a pacifistic nature, even though I realize that Buddhism is not a fully pacifistic philosophy, & is only viewed as such by Westerners. However, it still seems rather contrary to suggest that killing for any reason is wrong, & then a sentence later suggest that killing is the proper course of action
Alisium
 
I really don't mind evil persons who murder dying. However, I'd rather not give the government the right to kill anyone
And I can understand that way of thinking. However, if death is something we all agree should happen to a person, how can we come to that result if it not be by law? I don't even trust the government with my money. So, I certainly have reservations about trusting them with a person's life, but what other choice is there in a society governed by law?

This is one Atheist who has no problem with the death penalty, so long as it is just. The actions of some on this planet are a certain forfeiture of their right to remain here
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spocklet
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Live long and prosper.....!!

Yes you're right about Buddhists being pacifistic by nature, we are. But when, thousands of years ago, the Mongol warlords swept down from the steppes with their hordes to attack Buddhist temples and monasteries, a great many monks were killed in the process as they tried to defend their property. It was about this time they developed what has come to be known as the martial arts. The Buddhists used their knowledge of nature, and how animals defended themselves, and adapted this knowledge for their own use, and consequently when the Mongols attacked again they found a formidable army waiting for them. It didn't stop the attacks, and many monks still died, but they were no longer the pushovers of before !!

Ok, a brief (?!) history for you. Basically, yes we're pacifists but if you attack us we WILL fight back. If we can stop the attack without resorting to killing then we will, as in - If they cannot stand they cannot fight, If they cannot see they cannot fight, and as a very last resort If they cannot breathe they cannot fight !!

No the people of Boston were not Buddhists, am not suggesting they were. And am not suggesting there should be some kind of retribution for the attack. But the longer the bomber is alive, so he's in a position to influence other potential bombers to attack, but if he's dead he can't !!
R.I.P. Gummy, we'll miss you bro
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jespah
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Mojochi
Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:37 pm
......
This is one Atheist who has no problem with the death penalty, so long as it is just. The actions of some on this planet are a certain forfeiture of their right to remain here
^This, except that I'm Jewish. I have issues with how the death penalty is often overused, and often shoved heavily against the poor and minorities. But I believe it is very possible to get a good, solid case where the death penalty can attach. I do not believe, for example, that Timothy McVeigh was unjustly executed.

Mass. does not have the death penalty. However, since the elder brother was (I believe) not a US citizen - I could be really wrong in this area, my apologies if I am - plus they are likely to be charging them with the use of a WMD, federal jurisdiction applies, and the feds have the death penalty.

If it is found that they are responsible for any killings outside of the Bay State (there was something I saw in passing about seeing if they were possibly on the hook for a NY triple murder. Again, I could be mistaken here), then they don't need the WMD angle as an out of state killing would allow federal jurisdiction to attach.

Federal jurisdiction would also potentially assist in getting a jury. I do not imagine it will be easy to find a Massachusetts jury but it would be possible to get a New England one. With federal jurisdiction, the case could possibly be venued in a different district, e. g. in Maine or Vermont.
Once Ixalla was ready, Tathrelle cornered her. “Before we leave for work, I just want to tell you, I’m sorry. I guess I sort of shut down last night. I know you were in pain and I wasn’t too terribly supportive.” There was a wall covering in the main part of their chamber, something that Tathrelle hadn’t noticed before. She stared at it for a second and then shook her head.

Outside, a disembodied voice announced from a hidden speaker, “It is time to travel to all daytime places of employment. Transportation sleighs are available and ready. Citizens are encouraged to thank the sleigh drivers at the end of a successful transport. The government recommends haste, and requests that all pregnant persons be given preference for seating in their designated areas.”

A little distracted, Ixalla just asked, “Pain?”

Untrustworthy - by me, actually. It's for sale on Amazon
- Yeah, I'm a published author
jespah
My author page on Facebook
Author of Untrustworthy



Posted Image Posted Image I blog about Startrek fanfiction..

Honk if you love silence.
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Alisium
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Womb-Raider

Mojochi
Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:37 pm
Alisium
 
I really don't mind evil persons who murder dying. However, I'd rather not give the government the right to kill anyone
And I can understand that way of thinking. However, if death is something we all agree should happen to a person, how can we come to that result if it not be by law? I don't even trust the government with my money. So, I certainly have reservations about trusting them with a person's life, but what other choice is there in a society governed by law?

My issue with the death penalty is that the state seeks death too often, and too often we don't know for 100% sure that the individual being put to death is the actual perpetrator. Juries are 12 flawed human beings that are unduly influenced by the state. All evidenced by the many posthumously-exhonerated defendants.

Some assholes need to die, but I can't get over the ineptitude and malicious "blame someone, anyone" intent of the state.
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wissaboo
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Mojochi
Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:37 pm
I don't even trust the government with my money. So, I certainly have reservations about trusting them with a person's life, but what other choice is there in a society governed by law?

There are plenty of societies that get along at least as well as yours does and manages to be governed by law without the death penalty.
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stigmata
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Alisium
Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:10 am
My issue with the death penalty is that the state seeks death too often, and too often we don't know for 100% sure that the individual being put to death is the actual perpetrator. Juries are 12 flawed human beings that are unduly influenced by the state. All evidenced by the many posthumously-exhonerated defendants.

Some assholes need to die, but I can't get over the ineptitude and malicious "blame someone, anyone" intent of the state.
I thought your issue with the death penalty was this:

Quote:
 
I'd rather not give the government the right to kill anyone


Which is something I agree with wholeheartedly.

Anyway i'm sure they'll find an excuse to push for the sentence, they always seem to. There must be lawyers out there whose proudest professional achievement is finding a legal loophole to allow somebody to be killed. And they wonder why the legal profession gets a bad rap.
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Mojochi
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...........................

wissaboo
Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:23 am
Mojochi
Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:37 pm
I don't even trust the government with my money. So, I certainly have reservations about trusting them with a person's life, but what other choice is there in a society governed by law?

There are plenty of societies that get along at least as well as yours does and manages to be governed by law without the death penalty.
& I'm not disputing that, which is why I prefaced the statement you quoted by saying that "If death is something we all agree needs to happen to a person" What other choice is there than to have the law be how it's implemented? My own personal opinion may be that having a death penalty is a philosophically sound premise, but if the notion of it was democratically put down in this country, I wouldn't have a problem with that either. I support the death penalty on a purely philosophical level, the one that Jespah quoted a few posts back

& certainly it's a flawed system. Name me one in America that isn't. I do believe it is a premise which could be put into practice justly & is less than such here. The problem is that I believe the whole of the America government is dysfunctional, the arms of which reach into almost every facet of human existence. So though I may agree that since we know the government is dysfunctional, perhaps the life of a person shouldn't be penalized with death until we can rectify that, I also can't help but think why that should be the only rule we step back from. If the government is too flawed to handle life & death decisions, it's too flawed to handle a lot of stuff, & then we're looking at an entire overhaul
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Alisium
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Womb-Raider

stigmata
Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:33 am
Alisium
Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:10 am
My issue with the death penalty is that the state seeks death too often, and too often we don't know for 100% sure that the individual being put to death is the actual perpetrator. Juries are 12 flawed human beings that are unduly influenced by the state. All evidenced by the many posthumously-exhonerated defendants.

Some assholes need to die, but I can't get over the ineptitude and malicious "blame someone, anyone" intent of the state.
I thought your issue with the death penalty was this:

Quote:
 
I'd rather not give the government the right to kill anyone


Which is something I agree with wholeheartedly.

Anyway i'm sure they'll find an excuse to push for the sentence, they always seem to. There must be lawyers out there whose proudest professional achievement is finding a legal loophole to allow somebody to be killed. And they wonder why the legal profession gets a bad rap.
On a philosophical level, yes, but I avoided that because I didn't feel like getting too political.

I agree with your sentiment on lawyers.

One of the greatest travesties of modern society is the advent of the legal "profession".

Laws should be written in such a manner that the average person can represent themselves w/o any kind of legal training or need for legal trickery.

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Mojochi
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...........................

Alisium
Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:13 am
Laws should be written in such a manner that the average person can represent themselves w/o any kind of legal training or need for legal trickery.

QFT
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jespah
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I should point out right now that I practiced law for 3 years in the '80s. I am still in good standing in the New York Bar.

I know what a crappy reputation lawyers have. I get it and I understand it. And I quit practicing (I did insurance defense, trips & falls, car accidents, construction claims and product liability) because I felt my professional ethics were being compromised. Plus I hated every second of it and was stressed beyond belief.

I have had long stretches of unemployment (I'm in another one, more or less, these days. I work for a startup but am still actively looking for work 'cause I get paid diddly). Inevitably, interviewers want to know why I am no longer practicing, or they think I will up and leave, seduced by a glamorous life.

It was not glamorous. I made $40k at my highest salary, in 1990. I spent a lot of time at the Supreme Court, County of Queens. This is in Jamaica, a dirty, violent, icky place at best. I saw a mugging in progress while walking to court one day. I would spend time in court arguing whatever while the chain gang passed by. Yeah, it was like that.
Once Ixalla was ready, Tathrelle cornered her. “Before we leave for work, I just want to tell you, I’m sorry. I guess I sort of shut down last night. I know you were in pain and I wasn’t too terribly supportive.” There was a wall covering in the main part of their chamber, something that Tathrelle hadn’t noticed before. She stared at it for a second and then shook her head.

Outside, a disembodied voice announced from a hidden speaker, “It is time to travel to all daytime places of employment. Transportation sleighs are available and ready. Citizens are encouraged to thank the sleigh drivers at the end of a successful transport. The government recommends haste, and requests that all pregnant persons be given preference for seating in their designated areas.”

A little distracted, Ixalla just asked, “Pain?”

Untrustworthy - by me, actually. It's for sale on Amazon
- Yeah, I'm a published author
jespah
My author page on Facebook
Author of Untrustworthy



Posted Image Posted Image I blog about Startrek fanfiction..

Honk if you love silence.
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stigmata
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jespah
Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:54 am
I should point out right now that I practiced law for 3 years in the '80s. I am still in good standing in the New York Bar.

I know what a crappy reputation lawyers have. I get it and I understand it. And I quit practicing (I did insurance defense, trips & falls, car accidents, construction claims and product liability) because I felt my professional ethics were being compromised. Plus I hated every second of it and was stressed beyond belief.

I have had long stretches of unemployment (I'm in another one, more or less, these days. I work for a startup but am still actively looking for work 'cause I get paid diddly). Inevitably, interviewers want to know why I am no longer practicing, or they think I will up and leave, seduced by a glamorous life.

It was not glamorous. I made $40k at my highest salary, in 1990. I spent a lot of time at the Supreme Court, County of Queens. This is in Jamaica, a dirty, violent, icky place at best. I saw a mugging in progress while walking to court one day. I would spend time in court arguing whatever while the chain gang passed by. Yeah, it was like that.
That sucks. I recently turned down work for ethical reasons myself and it's not an easy thing.
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Lus
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Sherlock... I mean... KHANNNNNNN

This thread is making for interesting reading. I don't know enough on the US legal system to comment on it & though I have thoughts & opinions on other things mentioned, it's best to keep silent.
:lus:
It's a Star Trek Miracle!
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