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The Walking Dead; Zombie show on AMC.
Topic Started: Thu Nov 4, 2010 8:33 pm (12,574 Views)
Mojochi
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Yeah, I feel like its more about feeling he owed her a chance, being who she is to him & them. When she tried to connect with him near the end by saying "It's me" (As in "You know me") He should have said "Yeah, I know who you are Carol. If it had been anyone but you, I'd probably have just let them execute you for it"

I certainly feel like he's doing her a favor, considering the risk he's taking in people being upset with him over it, Some for unilaterally kicking her out, & some for letting her off altogether

The more I mull the episode over, the more I think it's the best one this season, by far, and has a lot of good potential for stuff to happen revolving around it, later in the season
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wissaboo
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someone just suggested a theory to me. It was one of the girls not carol and she is covering for them. The same one of the girls that is feeding the zombies and saying they don't die they transform
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Mojochi
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It's still not a given that Lizzie is feeding them rats, probable, but not certain, & the theory is that Lizzie shanked Karen & David's skulls, & dragged both bloody corpses outside, & immolated both of them? How does that logic work, if she thinks walkers are still people, why destroy them? & even if she would do it, I'm not sure she even could. Burning them was obviously a misguided attempt to kill the spread of contagion

Naw, I'm pretty sure Carol did that shit. Her whole demeanor supports that thinking & her confession. What I think is interesting about it is that she has the same kind of philosophy as Shane, yet it's much more calculated & resigned than Shane ever was. She accepts it to be as much a matter of fact as her dead daughter doesn't matter anymore.

Of all people, Chris Jericho nailed it on Talking Dead. Carol is a fixer. She does anything she thinks will solve her problem, whether that means popping in her own dislocated shoulder to avoid a questioning E.R. nurse, or putting down two friends who are likely infectious, despite the reality that the contagion is already loose.

Shane tried to force that way of life. Carol just accepts it as easily as a husband who beats her. In THAT way, she hasn't changed. She's just gotten stronger & more independent. The Zombie post-apocalypse is her new abusive relationship & she's resigned herself to it. A potentially awesome character study. One of the best so far maybe

I think the catalyst for this was when T-Dog died & she sat in that cell for like a day or so figuring she was going to die
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wissaboo
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somehow the triad of feeding the rats, killing the two sick ones so they will "transform", and believing the walkers are transformed humans work for me. Especially when Carol just taught them how to kill walkers.

I think Carol dragged them out and burned them to hide any evidence.

Carol has still got something serious going on though.
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Mojochi
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wissaboo
Tue Nov 5, 2013 5:01 pm
somehow the triad of feeding the rats, killing the two sick ones so they will "transform", and believing the walkers are transformed humans work for me. Especially when Carol just taught them how to kill walkers.

But they wouldn't have done that. What Carol taught them was how to prevent someone becoming a walker by destroying the brain. The blood trail outside was a mess. It was severe hemorrhaging. If people will turn by dying from the illness, then a girl who wants them to turn will just let it happen
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wissaboo
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Not if they are suffering and she want's to hurry the "transformation" to save them from it. And we are not exactly going on reality here, just because there is a blood trail doesn't mean they were bleeding from the eyes yet. It could mean the girl was clumsy when she killed them or that they just wanted a lot of blood on the ground for dramatic effect.
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Mojochi
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It just seems to be stretching what is really a very simple explanation. Carol thinks it's ok for them to have been killed for the possible safety of the group, & now they're dead. Neither of those 2 things are in dispute, & add them together, & Carol is willing & was capable of killing them, and has admitted to doing so. Any other explanation smacks of people who disagree with her motive wanting to come up with another possible explanation, because they like her & don't want her to be the person she clearly is

Besides, if it was one of the kids, they aren't going to exile a confused kid. Tyrese wouldn't kill a little girl. The kid would face no harsh repercussions, unlike Carol who's been banished, & lost trust from at least one of her close group members. There really isn't much of a reason to lie about it to protect the kid.

Plus, they had one final conversation, & if such had been the case, you'd have gotten some kind of hinting during it, & I got none from that conversation
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wissaboo
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eh true. I still kinda like the theory. Though the show doesn't throw a lot of mysteries at us.
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Mojochi
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Well, you like Carol. You'd probably much prefer it if she was acting in a protective manner than acting in a cold blooded survivalist manner

I like her character too, & a season ago, I'd have never saw this coming, which is pretty cool. It's an interesting development, with potential big time outcomes

A season ago, if I'd had to place a bet on who I thought would be the next person to go down the "Shane" road, it would have been Glen. Certainly not Carol
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wissaboo
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True. And, as this is a recurring theme, he could still go that way. Provided his eyes don't start bleeding.
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Mojochi
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Maybe so. In fact, no one is ever safe from losing there humanity here. I'm kind of surprised Rick managed to reel Carl back in... for now

Well, I take that back... Maaaaybe Hershel is beyond that kind of spiritual divergence
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Mojochi
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Well, I guess Rick finally had his "Carl is a front line guy" moment. Pretty sure everybody else would have come to that conclusion long before now had he not been sheltering him from... everything

I hope they don't skip over the Daryl/Rick conversation about Carol. I doubt they will, but you never know. It's more likely that it will be a focal point of next week, distracting us from...

Dun dun DUN!

The Governor
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wissaboo
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I liked that episode. Even liked ricks explanation of why he was shektering carl
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Mojochi
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Did you see the teaser for next week's show they played during Talking Dead? The Governor is more off his nut than ever
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wissaboo
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with the fire?

what do you think was with the 3 tents?
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Mojochi
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He has two people left from Woodbury. Martinez & Shumpert (A.K.A. Bowman]
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They watched him murder everyone else, & then just got in the truck with him & rode off, I assume fearing for their lives. I find these two characters immensely interesting, especially Martinez, who seemed like a reasonable guy when he had his little moment with Daryl last season. Either they are just following him out of fear, or they have truly become as evil as him

You'd have to be insane to follow that guy after that, or scared shitless
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wissaboo
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So, I've been thinking about Carol and what the alternatives might have been. I think if Rick had let her come back she is well loved enough amongst the group that they would have accepted her motivation and allowed her to stay. Since she is so obviously unrepentant about what she did won't they then have to accept her logic? would they kill all the remaining sickos? then if they do manage to stop the outbreak what does that mean for the future. Will everyone with the sniffles get offed? or will they wait for someone to die before they kill everyone who is sick.
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Mojochi
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wissaboo
Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:10 pm
Will everyone with the sniffles get offed?
That's the end game of Carol's philosophy, & too many people would never be comfortable with that, & at least one person would want her to pay for what she'd done to Karen. If survival is your goal & you choose to be in a group to aid in that goal, then group survival is it's mission. No one left behind. No one sacrificed. Fight for them until they're gone. Otherwise, don't be in a group

A group is like a body. Basically, she treated two people's lives like they were Hershel's leg. If a part is going to kill you, amputate it. If a part is a potential threat, excise it. She's actually amputated part of her own humanity, because she sees it as a weakness

She excised two parts of the group, incorrectly believing she was going to help sustain the rest. It doesn't work that way, because by killing off part, you've damaged the whole, such that it might end up being no group at all, just a herd of smarter than average bipeds, who have absolutely no faith or trust in one another
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wissaboo
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and continued to insist she was right when other people were coming down with the illness so her "sacrifice" accomplished nothing.
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Mojochi
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Yup, 100% thoroughly wrong. Wrong morally, wrong logically, & wrong technically. Don't get me wrong though. I wouldn't go so far as to say Rick is 100% right. What he did gave no one else any say, & since he'd somewhat resigned from the leader role, this was a hell of a shitty way to reclaim the mantle of Ricktator

I raised a point about Daryl over @ BBS. He might be open to reason, but he does see her as family, as much so as his own brother, who he chose over the group, & ultimately made the group take in, & I'd still say Merle represented more of a danger to everyone than Carol & her moral ambiguity. If he brings her back in somehow, will everyone cave the way they did with Merle?

Daryl has a LOT of say in that group, because they need him as much as anyone there, maybe more. They believe in him & trust him. They know he's good. He is the absolute rock of that group. This might put that on shaky ground. It could open up the worst social problem they've had since... Shane. In a real situation, a group might not stay together under similar circumstances
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