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| The Walking Dead; Zombie show on AMC. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Thu Nov 4, 2010 8:33 pm (12,592 Views) | |
| Mojochi | Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:23 pm Post #321 |
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I don't think he's Shane at all. I think the group needed the kind of leader that Shane was "representing". Shane was never going to be that kind of leader, no matter how badly he pushed & forced it. All we need to remember to know that, is how he dealt with Carol's husband, who did need to be dealt with, but... better than that. If Rick hadn't showed up, it would have likely been Shane against Merle & Daryl, eventually. That's why Carol said what she did, about Rick being better than Shane However, Rick had no interest in being the kind of leader he is now, at that time, and THAT was the downfall between him & Shane. Rick USED to be the guy who risked people to go back for scumbag Merle, & wouldn't execute an infected person. He can't be like that anymore, & I dare say that if he had wised up sooner about that, he might not have had to kill Shane Rick has subsequently learned that he IS the leader, & that the group needs the kind of leader Shane wanted to be, even if Shane was never going to be it. Rick's speech at the end of season 2 wasn't about him taking control of the group, it was about how he wanted them to know they had forced him to do so, & that it meant he would now have to be different than before It's hard to explain, but Rick isn't Shane. He's the guy that Shane said the group needed, & was never going to be himself, & that Rick hadn't decided to be until now. So Shane wasn't right... he just wasn't all wrong. Having to kill Shane drove the point home, & now Rick is being the leader that everyone needs I'll only say Rick has become Shane if he willfully leaves a good person to die, to save his own neck, because THAT's what Shane was all about, & I don't think Rick is there. The only thing that has changed in that regard is Rick's unwillingness to help people who aren't worthy, like the guy he locked out in the prison yard Before, Rick wanted to help people, like the stupid kid impaled on the fence outside that pub. New Rick? let's that kid become geekmeal, as it should be, the kid was in a group trying to kill them. Whereas Shane would've been willing to let any of them die, Andrea, Glenn, T-Dog, any of them, if it meant saving Carl, or Lori, or himself Ultimately, I like the new Rick, as a leader, although... because he's a different kind of man than Shane, it's wearing him down. On a personal level, Rick has got some serious issues with Lori now. About the closest thing to "Personal" he's willing to be with her is "Job well done, citizen" & he's biting through some serious contempt when he has to say it. lol |
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| wissaboo | Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:34 pm Post #322 |
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I don't see a lot of difference between shutting that guy out and shooting Otis to save Carl. In fact if you compare the two I think shutting the guy out was worse. There was at least an immediated need to save Carl. The guy outside was just a possible threat at some point. |
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| Mojochi | Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:22 pm Post #323 |
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The difference was that all evidence pointed to Otis being a good person, willing to risk his life because he knew he was responsible for the situation, & Shane didn't just save himself instead of helping Otis, he used Otis as a tool to give himself a better chance. He threw him to the wolves, because it gave him a better chance Whereas the yard inmate (Andrew) was obviously someone who was a dangerous person, based on the account of his own associate. He wasn't thrown to the wolves, he was a stupid punk who ran right into them, & then expected the guy who he'd shown himself to be a threat to, to show mercy on him Look around punk, mercy's in short supply. I'd imagine after killing your own best friend, mercilessness is par for the course Although, I'm not saying this is the end of it. We might see Rick go badder, but I just don't see how we can look on him as a protagonist if he did. So it's not as likely, because Rick has always been the moral compass. He may sway a bit, but I figure him to swing back The real test will be when Merle is back in the mix. That has the potential to tear the whole group apart. Daryl is the guy I'm far more concerned with right now. He has spent the better part of a year as a member of a unit that is primarily comprised of everyone who left his brother for dead, Rick, the guy who did it, T-Dog, the guy that was the cause of it, & Glenn... the other guy. Everyone else in the group is damsels, farmer's daughters, pregnant chicks, crippled geezers & a kid This little run-in with a handful of lowlifes is just the surface bilge. Merle's apparently tight with a makeshift militia, which shows he has the ability to work within a group, despite being a racist scumbag. There will be multiple dimensions to that character now, & Rick is going down the rabbit hole. We'll see how he comes out |
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| wissaboo | Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:28 pm Post #324 |
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I still think you are wrong about Otis. If Shane had gone down Otis would never have been able to make it out so Carl would never have gotten the supplies I think Daryl staying or going depends a lot on how far his relationship with Carol has progressed. And we don't know that yet. Also, Merle is crazy. Daryl isn't. I think Daryl is living with essentially sane people who respect and need him and that is a new experience for him. |
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| Mojochi | Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:55 pm Post #325 |
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sacrificing a good person to save another good person sounds suspiciously like playing god. You let tubby Otis take his chances. Gunning him down to use him for a few extra seconds crosses a line. Was it a line that needed to be crossed? Maybe. Clearly it was a gray area they wanted to put out there My point is more about what Rick did, which was to not show mercy to someone who'd shown themselves to be a threat to his already threatened group, which is a lesser line to cross, though admittedly, it is a line he had previously been unwilling to cross, as evidenced by the kid they locked up at Hershel's. He's past that point now, but that's all it was, at least to me. We'll have to see if it degrades any further But something tells me that a world of shit is coming their way, & we may be past this point real soon. & Daryl staying or going is the least of my worries. He's going to be between his brother & guys his brother would like to see dead, who've been his only support this whole time Worst situation any character has been in, on this entire show |
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| Alisium | Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:56 am Post #326 |
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We each put different values on different lives. Shane looked at Carl as his son and Otis as the dubmass who shot him. I don't think Shane would have hesitated in giving his life for Carl. In the end, his love, however twisted, for Lori and Carl is what tor him and Rick apart. He personally valued Carl's life over Otis. Otis was the whole reason he and Shane were even in that situation. To me it's a no brainer and I would have made the same decision. Rick is hardening. It's a good thing. I always liked the way Shane was going with things (although he was never leadership material and a little unscrupulous), and I think that's what you're going to need to survive in that situation. The same thing happens to men in war. It's a reality in life. |
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| Mojochi | Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:59 am Post #327 |
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Ultimately, If I'm Shane, I might too, but I do stand by the idea that Rick is still a more scrupulous leader than Shane, & incidents like these show that Over all, my whole point is that what Shane did to Otis is more ruthless than what Rick did to the punk in the yard, & on any given day... both are necessary & I'd do it too. Punks running away from having been involved in trying to get me dead get no sympathy & that includes that kid they rescued in season two. That kid would've rotted on a fence post, after having been a nice fresh dorkabob for Geek dinner, sorry & I most likely wouldn't be going back for Merle after his shit either, though having his brother there might have made that tougher |
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| Alisium | Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:44 pm Post #328 |
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I agree with you. I think what Rick did to both of those prisoners was the right thing to do, and that I would rather trust Rick than Shane. I think Shane had the right idea, but was becoming dangerous, to the point where if you even got in his way, he'd kill you. I think Rick needs a strong number 2, though. Just to kind of help him a long in some instances. I just started reading the graphic novels that the show based on and the characters are a little bit different. He has a strong #2 that isn't crazy and it works well. |
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| Mojochi | Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:32 am Post #329 |
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Honestly, Rick's best option for a strong #2 is Daryl. He's harder than Glenn & T-Dog. Normally I'd say give it time to develop naturally, but in this case, Merle is probably going to fuck all that up, & soon I think they need more people in general. The ranks a damn thin right now |
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| wissaboo | Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:18 pm Post #330 |
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new preview for next week http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/sneak-peek-episode-303-the-walking-dead-walk-with-me she's using her pet zombies as pack horse. Awesome idea! wonder if they are going to explain them. |
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| Mojochi | Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:42 pm Post #331 |
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What's to explain really? Remove their arms & mouth, & they're harmless mules, who will actually mask your scent from other geeks. Probably the coolest idea anyone ever had in all of zombie lore Only thing I wonder is if she feeds them, or just starves them until they rot to the point of uselessness, & then get's more There's not much to know about this universe's notion of zombie nourishment. Are they actually nourished by what they eat? Is that covered in the novels? |
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| VioletCloud | Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:54 pm Post #332 |
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Water Tribe!
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well.. in the comics she feeds them.. cause of who they are...er.. who they used to be. |
All my posts are done from my tablet. I apologize for all strange errors in my posts... as swype hates me. ![]() | |
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| wissaboo | Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:49 pm Post #333 |
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see? I knew there was a story |
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| Mojochi | Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:06 pm Post #334 |
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Well, that's pretty cool too, but I don't know if I'd want to drag around the reanimated corpse of anyone I had known. If they were worth knowing, then they are worth giving an honorable end, imo |
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| VioletCloud | Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:19 pm Post #335 |
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Water Tribe!
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this is make believe...lol ![]() |
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| Mojochi | Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:08 am Post #336 |
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Where'd you get that idea? Fiction? Resurrecting the dead? Not if you read the bible it isn't
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| Mojochi | Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:18 pm Post #337 |
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Two mentions of the nerd's tea. The nerd asking Andrea how she liked it, & The Gov. mentioning that it was one of two reasons he keeps the nerd around Bare in mind, I've never read the novels, but to me? Translation? There's something in the tea, they feed to the population. I could be wrong though, & it could just be some kind of inside joke The nerd is also the only person in the entire show that has considered that something of the walkers' humanity is still within. I've been waiting for that, because based on empirical observation, I think so too. They put that question in this week's polls, & the percentages were overwhelmingly against the notion that something of the person remains within. I disagree Among other examples... the very first walker ever shown had it's mind on something else, when there was no feeding to be had... It's teddy bear. C'mon... What does that tell you? Edit: btw, Michonne has got to smell awful. She's dragging around corpses, with a head full of dreadlocks, having not showered in maybe a year |
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| wissaboo | Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:33 pm Post #338 |
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I'm sorry the pets are gone so fast. I'm wondering about the tea too, but why would the governor drink it if it was drugged? didn't he drink some in the lab? Michonne is already getting on my nerves. There is no softness to her character. |
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| Mojochi | Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:40 pm Post #339 |
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I'm not sure there's anything in the tea, but they hung that out there pretty heavily, & I doubt the Gov. would be drinking the brand they distribute, nor his nerd. Could all just be a ruse though, for the web chatter Well... Michonne might be hard to give a shit about as a character, because she's new, nearly mute, & she does have serious issues, if she's been partnering with only one person for over half a year, & has told her nothing about herself but of her & Andrea, she's the only one doing any cautious thinking right now. You don't just swallow whatever bs people give you, when they brought you in blindfolded, at gunpoint. not to mention being in cahoots with fucking Merle! She's behaving this way in large part due to this position, & perhaps some other occurrences in her past. This is really the only story Michonne has gotten thus far, beyond how she met Andrea & a bit on how her & Andrea have been tight for a while. It'll be hard to get to know her by this story alone, because ultimately this situation will deteriorate When the guy sits you down for a meal, merely to point out that he'll kill & die rather than let anything disrupt his autonomy. That's pretty clear that you have bad times a brewing & I gotta wonder wtf is wrong with Andrea given that anytime a strong male shows up, she is sizing them up for a hay ride. Someone on the after show mentioned that even though Andrea has lost a sister, she's been pretty well insulated by a fair amount of sanity, in having been with Rick's group that whole time, & then going under the radar with a ninja for 7 months. Everyone has lost somebody meaningful, but not everyone is as fortunate as Andrea has been, & I bet you Michonne's story has either been worse or will be Andrea will have hard lessons to learn, just as Daryl will have hard choices to make, & Rick will probably have hard consequences to live with, & all I'm pretty sure about is that none of our main cast members are going to be shacking up in Woodbury after this season |
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| Mojochi | Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:02 pm Post #340 |
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This episode made me realize something. This is the only tv show I've ever watched that I'd be willing to continue watching even if every main cast member were replaced. More than any other show, this show is just as much about the situation as it is about any of the individuals involved or their personal story arcs. In fact, the situation IS the show, & anyone they choose to feature has something interesting to offer. I think that's why I like the webisodes too I don't think I could say that about any other show, & that means they've stumbled onto something pretty valuable. I only hope they realize it, because the only thing that could bring it down is if they somehow betray the situation by not keeping it interesting & exciting |
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