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Help!; what the hell do i do now?
Topic Started: Sat Nov 7, 2009 2:40 pm (219 Views)
mindingthepotole	Sat Nov 7, 2009 2:40 pm Post #1
Go on... buy a rusty one. lol Posts: 1,812 Group: Members Member #3,843 Joined: February 17, 2009	everything is ready to take the head of the engine, but the bolt that is holding the chain guide is sheared off inside itself..... any advice or a solution would be fantastic.... thanks.



coachwhip	Sat Nov 7, 2009 3:00 pm Post #2
Member Posts: 52 Group: Members Member #89 Joined: November 30, 2005	Bolt extractor if you have any. Either the cheap ones with the left hand thread as it's in the engine it probably won't take much force to start it turning, or the posher splined ones that push into the hole you've drilled. (may even get the cheap ones at a local sunday market, probably couple of quid) Remember to cover the hole underneath with tape so no bits drop down from the drilling. If you don't have an extractor then maybe drill a couple holes in it and insert a screwdriver across them to get some grip. Probably won't take too much torque to turn it. If not then maybe drill the head off the bolt, but more chance of catching the plastic then, you can always remove the remaining stud afterwards. Mike



Big Ben	Sat Nov 7, 2009 3:37 pm Post #3
Member Posts: 4,895 Group: Members Member #155 Joined: January 26, 2006	Everyone who works on machinery should have a set of THESE! If the bolt was tight enough to shear the head then these are your only option without damaging the plastic bit! Your local friendly mechanic may let you borrow the size you need.



mindingthepotole	Sat Nov 7, 2009 3:45 pm Post #4
Go on... buy a rusty one. lol Posts: 1,812 Group: Members Member #3,843 Joined: February 17, 2009	i have just found out that it is not the bolt that has sheared, but infact it is a tap that has broken..... and i dont think that the taps can be drilled due to being hardened..... what a pickle....



Big Ben	Sat Nov 7, 2009 3:51 pm Post #5
Member Posts: 4,895 Group: Members Member #155 Joined: January 26, 2006	Dont despair yet!! Find a local mechanic with a set of THESE!! Believe me when I tell you youre not the first and wont be the last to find a broken tap in a stud hole!!



mindingthepotole	Sat Nov 7, 2009 4:04 pm Post #6
Go on... buy a rusty one. lol Posts: 1,812 Group: Members Member #3,843 Joined: February 17, 2009	those are awsome.... but what size do i need???



mindingthepotole	Sat Nov 7, 2009 4:14 pm Post #7
Go on... buy a rusty one. lol Posts: 1,812 Group: Members Member #3,843 Joined: February 17, 2009	been thinking about destroying the chain guide and removing the pin with the tap still inside......... can i still get the guide and the pin from mercedes????



coachwhip	Sat Nov 7, 2009 4:22 pm Post #8
Member Posts: 52 Group: Members Member #89 Joined: November 30, 2005	It should still drill out, unless it is properly hardened. It looks like a normal type bolt to me, probably with a spline or torx thread/head in it. If so a decent drill bit will go through almost any bolt. then use the extractor or just a few larger drill bits till the head of the bolt is off. Once it is all out you can retap or use a helicoil to get the thread back. Mike Edited by coachwhip, Sat Nov 7, 2009 4:24 pm.



Big Ben	Sat Nov 7, 2009 7:04 pm Post #9
Member Posts: 4,895 Group: Members Member #155 Joined: January 26, 2006	coachwhip Sat Nov 7, 2009 4:22 pm It should still drill out, unless it is properly hardened. It looks like a normal type bolt to me, probably with a spline or torx thread/head in it. If so a decent drill bit will go through almost any bolt. then use the extractor or just a few larger drill bits till the head of the bolt is off. Once it is all out you can retap or use a helicoil to get the thread back. Mike Definately a three fluted tap mate! Tool steel and ultra hard. If the remover dont work then the guide will have to be broken to get a set of mole grips on it. If it snaps again then a trip to a specialist company with a spark eroder will be needed!



Big Ben	Sat Nov 7, 2009 7:06 pm Post #10
Member Posts: 4,895 Group: Members Member #155 Joined: January 26, 2006	mindingthepotole Sat Nov 7, 2009 4:04 pm those are awsome.... but what size do i need??? Its probably an 8 or 10 mm thread. Dont confuse the spanner size with the thread size.



balamb37	Sat Nov 7, 2009 7:43 pm Post #11
Member Posts: 553 Group: Members Member #3,881 Joined: February 25, 2009	Good on yeh Big Ben you're a mine of info on tools and where to get them, I think the thread is 6mm as I use a M6X60 bolt to get the pin out.



Big Ben	Sat Nov 7, 2009 9:32 pm Post #12
Member Posts: 4,895 Group: Members Member #155 Joined: January 26, 2006	balamb37 Sat Nov 7, 2009 7:43 pm Good on yeh Big Ben you're a mine of info on tools and where to get them, I think the thread is 6mm as I use a M6X60 bolt to get the pin out. Thanks Mate! My wife seems to think I have a tool fetish as I seem to have the right tool for most jobs. Not only for car work I might add!!



Richy190E	Sat Nov 7, 2009 9:46 pm Post #13
Sales Rep Posts: 1,815 Group: Members Member #1,387 Joined: June 9, 2007	you might be able to tap it round and out if its a 3 fluted tap mate. Otherwise you're gonna be removing the timing case cover to remove the sliding rail.



mindingthepotole	Sat Nov 7, 2009 9:52 pm Post #14
Go on... buy a rusty one. lol Posts: 1,812 Group: Members Member #3,843 Joined: February 17, 2009	been on the other forum where i was directed and asked the same question over there..... got a very different answer.... here is what was said... http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/engine/78236-head-gasket-change-need-help-chain-guide-bolt.html



Richy190E	Sat Nov 7, 2009 10:02 pm Post #15
Sales Rep Posts: 1,815 Group: Members Member #1,387 Joined: June 9, 2007	There are a few ways of doing this mark, it depends on how in depth you want to go. All the parts are available and cheap. Removing the timing cover is the biggest bit. If I were doing it I would crack the chain rail just above the timing cover, remove it and then pull the pin with the tap in using grips or an Irwin type socket. Or I may TIG weld a 'T' bar to the end of the pin and waggle it out that way, Cobalt drills will drill tool steel. I was drilling D2 the other day with a cobalt drill.



merc190uk	Sat Nov 7, 2009 10:15 pm Post #16
Steve Posts: 7,489 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: November 1, 2005	cant remember the condition of it but i have a 2.6 head you can have for free if all goes wrong (still attached to a worn out block though)



mindingthepotole	Sat Nov 7, 2009 10:25 pm Post #17
Go on... buy a rusty one. lol Posts: 1,812 Group: Members Member #3,843 Joined: February 17, 2009	where are you mate, just in case?



merc190uk	Sat Nov 7, 2009 10:26 pm Post #18
Steve Posts: 7,489 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: November 1, 2005	northampton



mindingthepotole	Sat Nov 7, 2009 10:27 pm Post #19
Go on... buy a rusty one. lol Posts: 1,812 Group: Members Member #3,843 Joined: February 17, 2009	cheers bud, i will bear that in mind if i have no luck.....



stwat	Sat Nov 7, 2009 10:41 pm Post #20
Moderator Posts: 12,329 Group: Moderator Member #28 Joined: November 11, 2005	I have managed to get a few out like that in the past by using one of my smallest punches and tapping it round with a hammer until enough of the tap is free to be able to get some pliers on.



mindingthepotole	Sat Nov 7, 2009 10:48 pm Post #21
Go on... buy a rusty one. lol Posts: 1,812 Group: Members Member #3,843 Joined: February 17, 2009	i will be trying the tap it out idea first before anything more drastic. lol but thanks for all help guys........ lets see what i can do tomorrow.



Big Ben	Sun Nov 8, 2009 9:04 am Post #22
Member Posts: 4,895 Group: Members Member #155 Joined: January 26, 2006	Be aware that an hss saw blade is softer than a carbon steel tap! As far as I can see the problem is where it is not what it is! Having another look this morning I have an idea! Try and wedge two small drills between the spacer and the tap flutes (shaft of the drill in the hole) then grasp the drills with a pair of mole grips as close to the spacer as possible. Then gently turn the tap to come out while caressing with a small hammer via a flat drift behind the plastic guide on the tap where it goes into the head! Needs 2 people to do properly. Whatever you do I hope it works out OK! Edited by Big Ben, Sun Nov 8, 2009 9:05 am.



Richy190E	Sun Nov 8, 2009 10:02 am Post #23
Sales Rep Posts: 1,815 Group: Members Member #1,387 Joined: June 9, 2007	Or you can hold a 17mm nut over the pin/sheared tap and fill the centre with MIG, then turn it out (its not threaded) but you can get them out by turning and prising behind gently. Put plenty of rag in to stop spatter going everywhere



frank n stein	Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:11 am Post #24
Newbie Posts: 23 Group: Members Member #4,543 Joined: August 22, 2009	Thats def. a broken tap in there , someone has tried to tap out the hole in the head and got heavy handed with it. Id try a pair of stout needle nosed pliers, into 2 of the 3 flutes of the tap and try to back it out, if by some miricle it does move use a tighten and loosen motion if it goes tight on the way out. The only problem i can see with a punch and tapping it round is, that taps are extremely brittle and tapping it round could well break off another bit of the tap making it harder to reach or if your very lucky breaking it off flush with the head allowing the head to be lifted. failing that id be inclined to remove the lower chain cover and slacken the lower guide bolt, perhaps you can then ease the guide forward enough to get a pair of thin nosed vice grip pliers (molegrips) onto the tap between the guide and head. Drilling is not realy an option, it is possible to drill out a broken tap with a masonary drill bit but this involves 30 seconds of drilling and then resharpening the bit, and in my opinnion will probably cause more harm than good in this instance. Its odds on the bolt hole in the head is damaged, probably the reason why someone has tried to tap it out in the first place, but if the head is going to a machine shop for refacing, then they should be able to get any broken tap left in the hole out, and rethread it with a helicoil or timesert etc.



Richy190E	Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:18 am Post #25
Sales Rep Posts: 1,815 Group: Members Member #1,387 Joined: June 9, 2007	The tube the tap is snapped in isnt screwed into the head, its a friction fit. And its an m6 tap I think so fairly small. The lads in work shear easy outs and drill bits into aircraft panel fasteners all the time and I get them out using cobalt bits and lots of cutting oil. Edited by Richy190E, Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:19 am.



mindingthepotole	Sun Nov 8, 2009 2:31 pm Post #26
Go on... buy a rusty one. lol Posts: 1,812 Group: Members Member #3,843 Joined: February 17, 2009	got the tap out this mornig with the jentle persawasion of a dirft and a hammer.... the hole in the pin is threaded..... just need to know how to remove the pin now.. also... does anyone know the part number or the correct name for the pin so i can get a new one ordered tomorrow. thanks for all your help guys. mark



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