injector and cold start valve changed starting worse than ever

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injector and cold start valve changed starting worse than ever; idle valve help finding
Topic Started: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:25 am (965 Views)
Ukmerctechie	Wed Nov 4, 2009 9:03 pm Post #41
Member Posts: 2,165 Group: Members Member #454 Joined: August 12, 2006	Going off your last post i would be looking for fuel leaks on the pressure side of the system or a blocked/disconnected vent valve/pipe from the tank.



alan	Wed Nov 4, 2009 9:10 pm Post #42
this looks like fun Posts: 3,991 Group: Members Member #2,052 Joined: December 21, 2007	yeah i know guessing parts aint the best route but i only changed the cold start as i got it at a good price and got the impression it might be the prob but it sounds like im gona have to get some money and take it to a specialist get them to run there hands over it but would rather sort it myself if i could



alan	Wed Nov 4, 2009 9:13 pm Post #43
this looks like fun Posts: 3,991 Group: Members Member #2,052 Joined: December 21, 2007	ok if its dry tomorrow ill have a look underneath check round under side of the tank as it must be something i have fitted wrongly to cause a leak or blockage also sort that missing pipe out



MICHAEL	Wed Nov 4, 2009 9:20 pm Post #44
Member Posts: 5,632 Group: Members Member #555 Joined: September 28, 2006	Mazzoni Bros in Port Glasgow can't be too far away from you. They'll sort it out, and they won't charge you a fortune either. Edited by MICHAEL, Wed Nov 4, 2009 9:28 pm.



alan	Wed Nov 4, 2009 9:26 pm Post #45
this looks like fun Posts: 3,991 Group: Members Member #2,052 Joined: December 21, 2007	yeah i been meaning to go down to them to get my tracking sorted just time has not been on my side but they will get a visit before i put new rubber on the back wheels since this is only a once a day prob i am not in any really rush to sort and needing the car now on a wed and sat nights for work makes it had to leave in anywhere aswell



alogaparaloga	Wed Nov 4, 2009 10:13 pm Post #46
crazy mind Posts: 605 Group: Members Member #2,419 Joined: March 14, 2008	Glad you had the forum expert to give you some proper advice Alan, I hope you get it sorted soon.



alan	Thu Nov 5, 2009 10:21 am Post #47
this looks like fun Posts: 3,991 Group: Members Member #2,052 Joined: December 21, 2007	Ok had a quick look that wee pipe is missing so that aint good any idea if there is a similar one on the modern ke engines I can grab from a scrapper



Ukmerctechie	Thu Nov 5, 2009 6:07 pm Post #48
Member Posts: 2,165 Group: Members Member #454 Joined: August 12, 2006	It is just rigid vacuum pipe mate,same as the headlamp adjuster tube



alan	Thu Nov 5, 2009 7:40 pm Post #49
this looks like fun Posts: 3,991 Group: Members Member #2,052 Joined: December 21, 2007	yeah got one from a c class this afternoon but never got a chance to post on here ill see if it makes any difference tomorrow



fox fan	Fri Nov 6, 2009 12:10 am Post #50
Newbie Posts: 5 Group: Members Member #4,582 Joined: September 1, 2009	I have a video of what I think is the same problem on my car. Is it the same?



alan	Fri Nov 6, 2009 7:32 am Post #51
this looks like fun Posts: 3,991 Group: Members Member #2,052 Joined: December 21, 2007	looks like you've got the same prob as me cant give you much help other than what ive been given above sorry hopefully between the two of us we will get a solution thing is it always starts so im not to worried, i just know it aint right and it cant be doin the car any good so wana fix it.



G3MAW	Fri Nov 6, 2009 10:37 am Post #52
Newbie Posts: 38 Group: Members Member #234 Joined: March 30, 2006	Hi, fox fan, Doesn't sound like a vacuum leak - I think the air flow meter disc under the air box could be sticky.Does the trouble clear up after youv'e driven , say, 20 or 30 miles? With the air box off, press the disc down and check it for freedom of movement. While your at it, wipe a cloth soaked with WD40, or suchlike, round the top of the air flow throat where the disc nearly touches it in its normal position. Cold damp weather is when this sort of touble usually crops up. If this task isn't successful, check around the igniton ( top of coil, Distributor cap, rotor arm,HT leads ). If you still don't find the answer, suspect the over voltage protection relay fuse, on top of the unit, next to the battery. Just ceck one item at a time so you can isolate the fault. Hope this helps, and apologies if you've done any of the above already!



fox fan	Fri Nov 6, 2009 1:52 pm Post #53
Newbie Posts: 5 Group: Members Member #4,582 Joined: September 1, 2009	alan Fri Nov 6, 2009 7:32 am looks like you've got the same prob as me cant give you much help other than what ive been given above sorry hopefully between the two of us we will get a solution thing is it always starts so im not to worried, i just know it aint right and it cant be doin the car any good so wana fix it. Yea I'm in the same boat as you really. I'm just hoping it doesn't get worse as winter sets in.



fox fan	Fri Nov 6, 2009 1:55 pm Post #54
Newbie Posts: 5 Group: Members Member #4,582 Joined: September 1, 2009	G3MAW Fri Nov 6, 2009 10:37 am Hi, fox fan, Doesn't sound like a vacuum leak - I think the air flow meter disc under the air box could be sticky.Does the trouble clear up after youv'e driven , say, 20 or 30 miles? With the air box off, press the disc down and check it for freedom of movement. While your at it, wipe a cloth soaked with WD40, or suchlike, round the top of the air flow throat where the disc nearly touches it in its normal position. Cold damp weather is when this sort of touble usually crops up. If this task isn't successful, check around the igniton ( top of coil, Distributor cap, rotor arm,HT leads ). If you still don't find the answer, suspect the over voltage protection relay fuse, on top of the unit, next to the battery. Just ceck one item at a time so you can isolate the fault. Hope this helps, and apologies if you've done any of the above already! Thanks for the advice. It actually clears up after about 30 seconds if your gentle and rev the engine a little. Its a bit bizarre because after that it runs fine and will start fine for the rest of the day.



alan	Fri Nov 6, 2009 3:56 pm Post #55
this looks like fun Posts: 3,991 Group: Members Member #2,052 Joined: December 21, 2007	ok after fitting the missing pipe ive had no real difference in starting so still waiting on a dry day to get underneath and have a look g3maw i know i have actually checked all these things on my car and they didnt make a difference for but still worth checking



G3MAW	Sat Nov 7, 2009 9:26 am Post #56
Newbie Posts: 38 Group: Members Member #234 Joined: March 30, 2006	Hi Alan/fox fan, At this time of the year, I'd always suspect the ignition system first, and the fuel side next, including the engine air system. Electrics first because of the damp climate, and the fuel system because it is a mechanical setup with a couple of sensors thrown in. What can make diagnosis so expensive is the cost of changing separate components ( EH actuator, fuel distributor) to isolate a fault. It's, therefore, worth seeking out a specialist, independent garage who you can trust - their experience of known faults is priceless!



quenching	Mon Nov 9, 2009 7:27 pm Post #57
Member Posts: 84 Group: Members Member #2,660 Joined: May 22, 2008	Don't mean to hijack the thread but can someone tell me the difference between an "idle control valve" and an "AIR SLIDE VALVE"? I have an '84 2.0l with an idle issue and my mechanic suspects it needs a new valve but is having difficulty sourcing the correct part. Do I need an "idle control valve" or an "air slide valve". I've checked with a German parts supplier and they say part number A0001412225, described and as "idle speed actuator", is suitable for my car - they used the VIN to check, (Mercedes here in Ireland were unhelpful to say the least!). However, I see mentioned above that early cars had a different system to control the idle than later cars. This is a picture of the part they suggest, but having not seen the one fitted in my own car yet its hard to compare: Anyone have a clear picture of an "air slide valve" to compare?



G3MAW	Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:41 pm Post #58
Newbie Posts: 38 Group: Members Member #234 Joined: March 30, 2006	Hi Quenching, Air Slide Valve goes under the name of 'Throttle' on MB's system - part no. A000 141 18 25. Your pic is an idle control valve, part of the later system. Before you change your Air Slide Valve, do a bit of d-i-y diagnosis. With the engine running and warm, remove the air box and find the rubber tube connected to the underside of the inlet manifold. Squeeze the tube to gently close it. See if the idle stabilises/increases. If it does, the Air slide valve is suspect. Try cleaning it first, inside the housing. There is a thin metal plate which closes off the air flow through the inside of the housing when the electrical supply to it is shut off. Don't be fooled if you can see that the plate is shut. It can still bleed enough air to upset the warm idle if there is a sufficient build-up of crud to stop it seating properly. Hence the need to clean it first ( WD 40 or some such - let it soak overnight) . With the valve off the car and connected to 12 volts try blowing/sucking air through it. If it leaks then , do the cleanig bit. If that fails your looking at 100 notes plus for an MB replacement. Edited by G3MAW, Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:44 pm.



quenching	Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:34 pm Post #59
Member Posts: 84 Group: Members Member #2,660 Joined: May 22, 2008	Thanks G3MAW, your advice is very much appreciated. I'll try that DIY bit myself at the weekend, seems something that even I can manage. Is it certain that I have an air slide valve on a November 1984 2.0 petrol, rather than an idle control valve? Do they look similar? I don't doubt your expertise at all, I only ask as the German parts supplier say that based on my VIN number part number A0001412225 (the idle control valve pictured) is "suitable for my car". That said, there seems to be great confusion surrounding idle control valve/air slide valve/ idle control actuator terminology and which is the correct one for which engine. Can an idle control valve be substituted for an air slide valve? I'm also guided by Ukmerctechie's advice above that a bit of sensible diagnosis is preferable than just replacing parts to see if it works. Regards quenching



bazfj40	Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:25 am Post #60
[url]http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1120a10cq6.jpg[/url] Posts: 105 Group: Members Member #3,706 Joined: January 8, 2009	quenching Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:34 pm Thanks G3MAW, your advice is very much appreciated. I'll try that DIY bit myself at the weekend, seems something that even I can manage. Is it certain that I have an air slide valve on a November 1984 2.0 petrol, rather than an idle control valve? Do they look similar? I don't doubt your expertise at all, I only ask as the German parts supplier say that based on my VIN number part number A0001412225 (the idle control valve pictured) is "suitable for my car". That said, there seems to be great confusion surrounding idle control valve/air slide valve/ idle control actuator terminology and which is the correct one for which engine. Can an idle control valve be substituted for an air slide valve? I'm also guided by Ukmerctechie's advice above that a bit of sensible diagnosis is preferable than just replacing parts to see if it works. Regards quenching hi, i had trouble with idle on mine and after cleaning and refitting this and adjusting the screw in the middle it was fine, its fitted under the air filter on the head, you can adjust the screw in the middle to change tickover its called the auxillary air device and mines a 2ltr 1987 auto, hope this helps. Edited by bazfj40, Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:42 am.



G3MAW	Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:35 am Post #61
Newbie Posts: 38 Group: Members Member #234 Joined: March 30, 2006	Hi Quenching, The two items are not intercahangeable. If you look under the air box you can verify which one is on your vehicle - I'm assuming that the engine on your vehicle is original. Looking towards the windscreen from the front of the vehicle with the air box removed , on the right hand side of the engine ,next to the oil filter, you will see the air slide valve bolted to the cylinder head with a rubber tube entering thr top of the unit and a similar tube exiting from the bottom. Also on the top is the electrical connection - a push-in plastic block with a wire connected to it. If for some reason you have a later engine, the item will look like the one in your photograph and is mounted further forward on the engine. Your'e quite right about the state of confusion.



quenching	Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:16 pm Post #62
Member Posts: 84 Group: Members Member #2,660 Joined: May 22, 2008	Thanks G3MAW, you're spot on there, I do indeed have an air slide valve. Didn't think the two items would be interchangeable but always wise to ask. Thanks for pointing out the air slide valve earlier, I was just about to order an idle control valve so you've saved me some money there! There German parts supplier appear to be recommending the wrong part based on the VIN. But mostly my own fault for not knowing enough in the first place. Thanks too bazfj40 but my problem is not so much a low idle all the time, its fine in N, D, and P, its only really when put in reverse that the revs drop a bit too low, so I'm reluctant to increase the general idle speed. I might give it a go though this weekend and see what happens.



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