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| Welcome to the Mercedes 190 forum Welcome to the Mercedes 190 owners forum, the place to be for all owners and lovers of the Mercedes 190E, 190 and 190D cars. Including Cosworth (2.3 16v and 2.5 16v), EVO 1 and EVO 2 models. Modified and concourse, track cars and daily drivers, all are welcome. This free UK based club was started back in November 2005 to serve the w201 community and now has over 4000 members from all around the world and 340,000 + posts. The members welcome you and encourage you to stay a while and have a look around. We offer you friendly chat and access to some very useful information as well as tutorials with photos and videos for many common repair and maintenance jobs. Whatever your needs there is a good chance you will be able to find what your looking for. Such as our Mercedes 190 buyers guide Sign up to gain access to all areas including for sale / classified areas and country wide meetings and events. Many forum features and sections are only available once you sign up. Join our us at mercedes190.co.uk! If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
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| injector and cold start valve changed starting worse than ever; idle valve help finding | |
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| Topic Started: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:25 am (966 Views) | |
| alan | Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:25 am Post #1 |
this looks like fun
  ![]](http://209.85.122.89/static/1/pip_r.png)
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ok i have just finished fitting my new injectors and when i was there i fitted a new cold start valve as this was suggest as the reason for my starting problem she was a real pain to start after the new parts but took this to be ok as fuel had to get through injectors and cold start but before when she was warmed up she would start fine now she is struggling to start even after a short run and i still have a problem with needing to slowly apply accelerator to stop her stalling on first start so looks like it wasnt the cold start valve what can i do other than swap all the parts back i really need this car back on the road for work tonight cheers in advance |
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| alogaparaloga | Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:11 pm Post #2 |
crazy mind
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Have you checked the idle air valve? If you have to press the accelerator to keep it running, idle valve probably doesn't work |
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| alan | Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:41 pm Post #3 |
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this looks like fun
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She will tick over but as soon as you put your foot down it goes to stall so u lift off but if gentle it won't stall and will eventually run a little rough then be fine was suggested this was cold start |
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| GEZIJ | Sun Nov 1, 2009 9:31 am Post #4 |
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i would suggest checking all the electrical plugs/connections in the area you were working on. may have been a loose wire there that has come away from the plug. |
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| jeremy | Sun Nov 1, 2009 9:43 am Post #5 |
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There's a thread on the mercedes-benz-club site that suggests that the 2 hoses on the cold start idle valve might be falling apart on the inside bit still look ok on the inside . Jeremy |
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| alan | Sun Nov 1, 2009 7:42 pm Post #6 |
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plugs look ok all on tight any way to check the idle pipes or is it just a matter of replacing and hoping??? is it pipe 65 below??? 
Edited by alan, Sun Nov 1, 2009 7:44 pm.
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| alogaparaloga | Sun Nov 1, 2009 9:36 pm Post #7 |
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crazy mind
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I believe Jeremy said about Idle Air Valve (2 hoses not pipes) Jeremy correct me please if I am wrong. |
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| alan | Sun Nov 1, 2009 10:19 pm Post #8 |
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I'm total confused as to what or where to look |
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| merc190uk | Sun Nov 1, 2009 10:24 pm Post #9 |
Steve
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i want to offer advice but its a nightmare doing it over the forum as there are so many factors ! is any member near to you that knows what they are looking at ?? |
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| alan | Sun Nov 1, 2009 10:36 pm Post #10 |
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this looks like fun
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Members near me ah nope I'm in the sticks aka scotland lol So either ideas off ere or propper garage but since I don't trust them I live with it |
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| mazza | Mon Nov 2, 2009 7:50 am Post #11 |
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Morning hope this helps.  check the rubber pipes that connect to the valve mazza |
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| mazza | Mon Nov 2, 2009 8:36 am Post #12 |
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Hey Alan! did you not check the cold start before you bought a new one??? with the KE jetronic you have to check pretty much everything...thats the nature of the beast..check fuel/air/electrics. Just like Steve said..."there are so many factors" http://s14.zetaboards.com/mercedes_190_club/topic/6577569/ mazza |
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| alan | Mon Nov 2, 2009 12:52 pm Post #13 |
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i got the cold start for new off ebay for £25 so thought it wasnt too much to replace ill have a look at the idle valve latter if the weather holds |
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| balamb37 | Mon Nov 2, 2009 2:37 pm Post #14 |
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Alan, up front on the cylinder head where the sensors (switches) are there is one that has two rubber pipes on it coming off at an angle to each other, I believe they are for the Kjetronic Temp in relation to starting and runnung, check those as they (one or the other) do have a tendence to snap off, I think it's the sensor behind the cooler fan one.
Edited by balamb37, Mon Nov 2, 2009 2:38 pm.
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| stwat | Mon Nov 2, 2009 2:43 pm Post #15 |
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Have you made sure you put the idle control valve on the right way round? |
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| alan | Mon Nov 2, 2009 4:14 pm Post #16 |
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i aint touched the idle yet it was the cold start and i cant see how it would go on the wrong way round didnt get a chance to get a look at the car today and its dark now hopefully tomorrow |
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| alan | Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:35 am Post #17 |
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holy double post batman
Edited by alan, Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:40 am.
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| alan | Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:39 am Post #18 |
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this looks like fun
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ive had a good look and i cant find the idle valve any clues i have had a good look underneath the inlet well a feel but cant seem to find it took a quick pic any idea where this goes it is connected up to where the idle screw is at one end, the yellow bit as it goes back into the hole below, but the black bit looks like it should have a pipe connected to it but i cant find it???  ive had a look at some of the pipes but dont know what i am looking for they look ok on the outside and dark and pipe like on the inside on a side note has anyone got an easy way of refitting the breather pipe to the air box |
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| mazza | Tue Nov 3, 2009 12:02 pm Post #19 |
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Hi Alan Not too familiar with this engine but i believe this is the location.. someone correct me if I'm wrong...  mazza |
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| alogaparaloga | Tue Nov 3, 2009 12:10 pm Post #20 |
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crazy mind
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Alan I think the original idle air control valve has probably been changed with o non standard. I have never seen a photo like yours, and I believe the hoses are modified too. I ll try to find some pics to show you how I believe it should be. |
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| alan | Tue Nov 3, 2009 12:15 pm Post #21 |
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mazza cant read your pic maybe my comp but i know top left arrowed is idle screw is, bottom left is cold start valve cant see where the other arrows are goin alogaparaloga its a 1986 2 ltr injection would that have something to do with it??? |
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| mazza | Tue Nov 3, 2009 12:22 pm Post #22 |
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Hi yep!! managed to screw that up!!! lol try saving pic to your computer and then open it, you should be able to see it then..in the mean time i will try again...  Shot with BlackBerry 8900 at 2009-11-03 mazza |
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| alogaparaloga | Tue Nov 3, 2009 12:42 pm Post #23 |
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crazy mind
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Could be, as it's a very early model. later models have the valve closed in a rubber mount, between runners 3 & 4. Mazza's guide look ok. check the wires going to that valve as well as the hoses. Can you find any diagrams from the Russian site? Edit: check 2nd photo on this as you don't have anything similar a sort of valve could be around there as the manifold and fuel metering unit look identical. Edited by alogaparaloga, Tue Nov 3, 2009 12:45 pm.
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| alan | Tue Nov 3, 2009 2:52 pm Post #24 |
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this looks like fun
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alogaparaloga do you mean the round thing on the right?? ill take some more pics round that area when the rain stops cause i am gettin more confused as to what im looking for |
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| alogaparaloga | Tue Nov 3, 2009 3:15 pm Post #25 |
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crazy mind
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yes, this is the back of the valve. you see the 2 pin electrical connector on this and the rubber mount. The other side has the hoses (towards rocker cover). The routing of the hoses goes from air-box and rocker cover breather towards the valve in, and from valve out to manifold. |
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| alan | Tue Nov 3, 2009 3:30 pm Post #26 |
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well i know i dont have that and cant see anything that looks like that where do i go from here |
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| mazza | Tue Nov 3, 2009 5:36 pm Post #27 |
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Hey No wonder your motor is fecked...you aint got a idle control valve...he he!! its got to be there somewhere mate...follow the pipe (downwards "that I marked on the picture. get your fingers in there and you will feel the ICV at the end of that pipe. its got to be said...its kinda weird this one.. hope you get it sorted mate mazza |
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| alan | Tue Nov 3, 2009 5:52 pm Post #28 |
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dont fancy goin out in the dark and rain so itll have to wait tomorrow i know the previous owner was an absolute ass and did some major bodges but this has only really been a prob since the summer so it wasnt him this time lol its prob really simple i was looking in the haynes but canny find the icv |
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| alan | Wed Nov 4, 2009 11:32 am Post #29 |
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ok had a quick look the pipe seems to loop back up into the thingy that the pipes for the injectors is connected to underneath well thats where it feels like as it is quite flat it is also connected to this electrical plug thingy on the right 
Edited by alan, Wed Nov 4, 2009 11:33 am.
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| G3MAW | Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:09 pm Post #30 |
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Hi Alan, The larger black hose at the bottom of your picture connects to the underside of the inlet manifold. Near the engine block you can see two moulded outlets on the outer surface of the pipe. One of these is blanked off and the other is where the yellow connector on your loose pipe should be inserted. If not connected up you have a major air leak into the manifold which will severely weaken the mixture. With the loose pipe 'plugged in' via the yellow connector, look for a loose length of fine plastic tubing which should be connected to the end of the previously-loose connector/tube, the other end of this fine tubing runs to a valve mounted on the inner wing above the coil ( this valve should have a black plastic knob on it). By the way, you don't have an idle air control valve to worry about, yours is the earlier system with an AIR SLIDE VALVE ( lives on the end of the the cylinder head, on the near side, next to the firewall). Hope this helps. |
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| alan | Wed Nov 4, 2009 4:00 pm Post #31 |
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hi g3maw thanks that kinda helps maybe its down to my head being fried today but i dont follow everything so just so i can get it straight in my head, after the yellow plug/adapter on the long black bit there should be another fine pipe coming off this which runs to a valve on the inner wing above the coil ok im gona have a look and see if i can find either the pipe or the valve then see if reattaching these sorts my starting probs if not what about the air slide valve does it work the same as the icv and would it be the cause of my starting??? sorry if im asking stupid questions but the amount of knowledge on here im bound to get this sorted |
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| alan | Wed Nov 4, 2009 8:21 pm Post #32 |
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this looks like fun
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ok so am i right in thinkin the valve in question has the green pipe/cable coming out of it cause iirc the top one is the diagnostic plug  |
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| Ukmerctechie | Wed Nov 4, 2009 8:28 pm Post #33 |
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The red circled bit is the idle valve on yours. You have an earlier version of KE fitted. I will have a read of the full post but it would be a big help if you summarised your faults.  2 blue dots join together and a thin white vacuum pipe connects to the other end of the yellow valve. Edited by Ukmerctechie, Wed Nov 4, 2009 8:39 pm.
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| alan | Wed Nov 4, 2009 8:38 pm Post #34 |
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this looks like fun
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ok its all in first post but basically when i start first time each day she always starts then immediately stalls but a couple of chugs and she goes i then need to be gentle with the accelerator to get her to go or she dies but slowly build up the revs with a slight back fire then off i go no bother for the rest of the day fine no probs starting well a bit sluggish if left for a good few hours but not the same hassle ive got a clearer pic of that part 
Edited by alan, Wed Nov 4, 2009 8:40 pm.
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| Ukmerctechie | Wed Nov 4, 2009 8:41 pm Post #35 |
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Ok mate reconnect the disconnected pipes and try it then,if still the same you need to get the mixture reset and then check the fuel pressures if no better. Do those and lets see if its better. |
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| alan | Wed Nov 4, 2009 8:42 pm Post #36 |
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this looks like fun
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ok the blue dots are easy i just removed to take the pic but i havent seen this pipe that goes in the other end will have a good look in the morning again tho where does it connect maybe i can trace it back |
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| alan | Wed Nov 4, 2009 8:43 pm Post #37 |
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this looks like fun
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how do i go about them is it a garage job i guess??? |
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| Ukmerctechie | Wed Nov 4, 2009 8:49 pm Post #38 |
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 One end goes to the green dot and the other to the other green dot(second pic) 
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| alan | Wed Nov 4, 2009 8:56 pm Post #39 |
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this looks like fun
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ok just thinkin you say get the mixture reset this car has been running fine for ages but has been a pain since the summer when i changed the tank to a larger one why or how would the mixture have changed ??? the fuel pressure sounds more likely to me but then how would it have changed either as ive change fuel filter incase it was clogged up dont wana sound like im saying your wrong just looking to see the cause to get it sorted as well |
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| Ukmerctechie | Wed Nov 4, 2009 9:02 pm Post #40 |
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You need to work your way thru KJet,rather than just throwing bits at it. Just giving you a logical approach to diagnosis. It can get REAL expensive to just throw parts at a KJet system. |
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10:33 PM Nov 26
