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| Lower ball joint replacement | |
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| Topic Started: Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:31 pm (823 Views) | |
| Will | Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:31 pm Post #1 |
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Hi, I've noticed a noise appearing from the driver's side front wheel area on my manual 2.5-16, it sounds like a squeeking/creak type sound which is more noticable when steering. I haven't driven the car for a couple of weeks. Jacked the car up briefly to take a quick look, seems to be coming from the front lower ball joint on the wishbone? It's a bit hard to pinpoint but it's happening when the wishbone is compressed vertically up/down or the steering is moved from side to side. It's a bit dark and freezing cold out there, but I'm pretty convinced it's the lower ball joint - as there's no obvious play/knocking it's hard to pinpoint the creak. Can't really see what else is moving that it could be coming from other than the bottom of the shock but I don't think it's that. On the +ve side, the track rods are both brand new from a few '0000 miles back and everything else seems ok, so I reckon I'll order up a pair of ball joints and replace those. Has anyone replaced these before? The part appears quite cheap - less than £15 a side! I think complete MB wishbones with the ball joints/bushes etc are around £200 or I guess I could've replaced the wishbones if the joints are really that hard to remove/refit. Can't quite work out whether they need a press to remove and refit the joint though? I don't mind spending the cash if it's worth it but I don't think there's anything else really untoward. It's a great smooth driving car and has had a good going over of the steering/suspension etc a few thousand miles ago and no reported problems of excessive wear/play on any parts during MOT time or inspections. I'm guessing that a recent drive where I got caught out in some rain, plus the limited use and cold weather might have caused the joint to become dry/washed out hence causing this noise? Doesn't appear to be any other problems. Any advice/pointers much appreciated, just wish it'd warm up/brighten up a bit again! Cheers, Will |
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| cossie connoisseur | Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:52 pm Post #2 |
fat tits
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hi mate well firstly MB are well priced on balljoints so thats the best route the old ones need pressing out with the new ones going in the same, it cost me £60 to have it done during the summer including parts...mates rates You can change the wishbones however the MB ones ae the only ones to use unfortunatly due to others being a bit of a bodge (euro car parts are cheap) if you change them then you will need bolts ect then a full geometry check so the bill would be quite a lot in the end you should not have to pay any more than a £100 for parts and labour for balljoint change tbh they do just go on these cars but try not to drive it as they can shear causing further damage, they tend to go at lower speeds for some reason Edited by cossie connoisseur, Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:54 pm.
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| Will | Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:59 pm Post #3 |
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Hi Nick, Many thanks for that. I've heard before that they need a press to remove/refit, but also keep hearing from other people that they just knock out with the wishbone in place! The parts are peanuts to buy, shame the wishbones aren't cheaper as I would obviously offset the labour cost by replacing more parts hence benefitting from the same expenditure! In fairness there's nothing else wrong with them so it's probably a bit OTT. Did you have them replaced with the wishbone in place, or did you remove the wishbone, then get someone to replace the joint for you? I wonder how much a suitable press would be? With so many MBs it'd probably pay for itself in the long run! Cheers, Will |
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| cossie connoisseur | Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:03 pm Post #4 |
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fat tits
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they were press fited with the wishbones removed from the car they can be done in situe and there is a tool to do it...infact there is a video on this forum somewhere of the procedue by an MB mechanic....takes 10mins to do the job. you can use a socket and hammer though i doubt your into that. |
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| RobertE | Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:13 pm Post #5 |
Serial victim...
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As a matter of interest, did you get an advisory re. ball joints at the last MOT? |
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| Will | Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:29 pm Post #6 |
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Nope, no advisories etc. It's only done a few thousand miles since a £4k service and suspension overhaul, much of the steering/suspension is quite recent and it's the tightest driving 190 I've driven!  There doesn't appear to be any wear on the joints, no play/knocking etc and the rubber boots look okay, it just seems as though the joint is dry and squeeking. I might look into the cost of purchasing a proper press to remove/refit the joint, as it'll probably pay for itself in the long term with the number of MBs that I own/will own/look after! Will |
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| nezamr | Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:34 pm Post #7 |
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(I think!!) my lower ball joint is going, steering is very squeaky and now that its parked up it squeaks when the bonnet is pushed down! |
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| aemt | Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:40 pm Post #8 |
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Had the ball joint go on one of my early cars. No warning apart from slight knocking on full lock as if the tyres were rubbing on the inner arch. Failed totally but luckilly I was only doing about five miles an hour just pulling away from lights. Whole front nearside collapsed. Having the current cars done one by one at moment just in case. |
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| Will | Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:02 pm Post #9 |
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Same symptoms as mine. Anyone know anything more about the tool needed to replace these?  Will |
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| Will | Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:04 pm Post #10 |
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Ouch! Don't want that to happen! Luckily this is a 4th car, so I don't need to use it now in the meantime. I'll order up some new MB ball joints and replace both sides. Might have a proper alignment check at some point also as it's had so much suspension work done and I've just fitted four new tyres! Will |
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| MICHAEL | Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:06 pm Post #11 |
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Will, there is a video somewhere on that tool, I think it's quite expensive too. I 'll have search and see i it can be found. |
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| MICHAEL | Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:10 pm Post #12 |
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Klann is the name, and I think they have site |
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| Will | Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:16 pm Post #13 |
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I've seen the Klann spring compressor tools - very handy bit of kit. I'll have to see if they do a press for these ball joints as well. I love tools!  Will |
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| Will | Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:42 pm Post #14 |
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http://www.klann-online.de/englisch/Filme_E/KL-0326-10_E.htm Hmm - look like lovely tools, but I wonder how expensive they are! Will |
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| shrekky | Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:00 pm Post #15 |
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if you are capable of doing them yourself....................do so and save the money,it isnt that hard and all you need is a BFH & chisel,socket big enough to fit the under side of the balljoint(so you can drift it back in)...............they are easily do-able |
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| rhysmangatmotorsport | Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:39 pm Post #16 |
Mangatmotorsport
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make sure you get it done!!, symptoms are squeeking and creeking, you will feel stiffness when steering. If the balljoint goes the whole side of that suspension will collapse. not pleasant!!! |
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| Cosmo2.5-16 | Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:42 pm Post #17 |
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We have the Klann Tool for doing the ball joints in situ, We got it for replacing ball joints on the 211 and 220, It will do the 201 as well. There common to go on 211 and 220 and the tool saves a lot of time on each job. Cost just under a grand, If you can get a squeak while pushing up and down on the front suspension, its more than likely the anti roll bar rubbers squeaking. Just lube them. If you get the squeak when you turn the steering left or right, it's the ball joint. Change them. |
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| -V- | Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:32 pm Post #18 |
The Hamster
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Looks like i may have to do this tomorrow, i noticed a 'creaking' noise coming from my front left side everytime the wheel turns slightly. Though i had my MOT done about 2 months ago and nothing was picked up?  The thought of it going whilst driving is frightening, especially with the amount of motorway driving i do. If that thing went at 70mph, i'd hate to think what would even happen!? 
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| Will | Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:39 pm Post #19 |
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Cheers guys. I'm almost certain it's the ball joint. £1k would be a bit too much for a one-off tool, so I'll either look to replace the wishbone complete or take it to a good indi garage. Will |
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| nezamr | Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:41 pm Post #20 |
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if enough people are going to get it done, maybe someone can buy the ball joint press and either hire it out to the rest of us and claw back some of the cost, or go round and replace people who need them changed for a charge? I would have thought it gets easier once you have done a few!! Just a thought (and me not wanting to do it myself!!!lol) |
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| Sev | Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:24 pm Post #21 |
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No Longer a Registered Member
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guys, if by wishbone and ball joint you're referring to the lower control arm and the ball joint attached to it, they are sold on eBay, to meet or exceed manufacturers specfications, for $100 US or so, plus shipping to the UK would be like $30-40 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-W201-Control-Arm-Lower-RIGHT-190D-190E-1984-93_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem140285557928QQitemZ140285557928QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories much cheaper than buying a press, and you replace your control arm bushings at the same time |
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| NEIL | Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:56 pm Post #22 |
Fewer Posts than Kenny
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Will, this is a serious safety issue with the W201 and should be sorted by somebody accountable. TBH it's possibly worth taking yours to the Dealership, as it's such a correct example. I used these guys and even then it cost me well over £200. Similar parts prices as quoted in this thread, but proper kit used by specialists with a room full of very juicy cars. |
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| -V- | Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:15 pm Post #23 |
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The Hamster
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Reading posts like this make you realise just how important it is. I remember paying around £150 to get ONE replaced (yes, i know i should have got them both done at the same time! ) and even then they said it was full-on seized in! Nasty!
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| merc190uk | Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:15 pm Post #24 |
Steve
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good link but the 16vs and the 2.6 use heavy duty bushes at the back |
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| aemt | Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:21 pm Post #25 |
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Many thanks for the info Sev. This is what the forum is all about. |
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| aemt | Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:26 pm Post #26 |
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As part of my suspension rebuild I am sourcing lower arms from here. Fully bushed and ball joint fitted http://search.stores.ebay.co.uk/ATP-Autoteile_w201_W0QQfciZ6QQfclZ3QQfsnZATPQ2dAutoteileQQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3QQsaselZ18116485QQsofpZ0 Edited by aemt, Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:27 pm.
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| Sev | Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:34 am Post #27 |
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just make sure when you buy the arms, that they have the sport bushes already pressed in. there were two kinds of arms, with and without sport bushes, which were thicker. all newer models are made with sport bushes, but possibly, the ones for 1.8 or 2.0, may not have them. also, if anyone has a source for brand new rear LCA's, let me know, I need them as the last peice of the puzzle (got a full set of rear links from the same seller as the one I posted above, for about $150 US shipped) |
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| aemt | Fri Jan 9, 2009 10:16 am Post #28 |
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Thanks Sev. I should have read your reply earlier but missed it. We have now ordered the parts. Bill for replacing lower ball joints on Nautical came in today. Pleasantly surprised as labour for stripping down front end, pressing out old joints, pressing new joints, re assembling re aligning and road testing came to £125 including picking up and returning the car. |
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| Will | Fri Jan 9, 2009 11:03 am Post #29 |
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A quick update to this thread: I'm currently in discussions to look at buying the 'pukka' Klann MB ball joint press tool (as seen in the video I posted earlier in this thread). It's not cheap, but one option I'm considering would be to offer this superb tool to other MB/190 owners on a hire basis to recoup some of the costs. Would save most people £100-200+ in labour and the beauty of using the correct tool is that you don't need to disturb the wishbones. Therefore saving not only time, but the risk of putting the front-end alignment out I imagine that due to the fairly common nature of ball joint wear and risk of failure, it would be quite prudent for people to look at replacement, bearing in mind that the parts cost less than £15 a side (genuine MB )Will let you all know when I have further details Will |
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| Everton | Fri Jan 9, 2009 11:29 am Post #30 |
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I've had my 190 parked up for seven weeks because of this problem, as soon as I'd got my car back after I'd had the kit put on it I noticed the creaking when the front near-side wheel was under load. I've got the car booked in on monday to get it looked at, fixed and MOT'd I can't wait to get it back on the road. I have had the car jacked up and went to town with white grease, all over every joint, the suspension and everywhere else. It didnt stop the squeek/creak in any way. |
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| Will | Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:07 pm Post #31 |
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Unfortunately it won't if it's the ball joint, it's sealed/covered with a flexable rubber/silicone boot/gaiter. Any idea on how much you've been quoted round your way for the replacement? Most garages want about 2 hours a side labour + parts due to having to remove the whole wishbone to press the joint out! That's about £200+ easily in labour round here, probably more at some places. Will |
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| NEIL | Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:38 pm Post #32 |
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Fewer Posts than Kenny
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Mine was 1 hour labour per side, at £75 p/hr... |
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| aemt | Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:38 pm Post #33 |
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I paid £125 labour today. Happy with that because he also checked alignment |
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| Everton | Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:42 pm Post #34 |
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I haven't had a quote yet, he's going to check it, make sure it is that and then go from there. I'll post on monday how much, do you have to get both sides done then? or is it just better to get both sides done. It's the nearside on mine thats playin up |
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| NEIL | Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:49 pm Post #35 |
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Fewer Posts than Kenny
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Absolutely definitely get both done. Mine were 2 balls of rust, pretty scary actually. They hadn't actually creaked or made any noise, but one of them had come up as Advisory on the previous MOT. |
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| howard35 | Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:49 pm Post #36 |
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Everton As a temporary fix, I quietend a creaky ball-joint by injecting thin grease into the boot using a hypodermic sysringe and needle, until the boot was full ONLY as a temporary fix, mind - if the joint's creaking, it's knackered, and could break Howard |
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| Everton | Fri Jan 9, 2009 1:51 pm Post #37 |
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Ok thanks for the advice,I'd consider a tempoary solution but I'm using a hire car at the moment so I'll get both sides looked and replaced if necessary. As Neil said in a previous post,if it did come out on me and the wheel folded in it'd rip the kit off,it'd make me cry so it's better to be on the safe side of this particular problem |
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| aemt | Fri Jan 9, 2009 2:01 pm Post #38 |
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Definately do both. They will be the same age and they can collapse without warning as they have done with me in the past. Any hint of trouble and these joints should be replaced. If you are thinking of springs, dampers or bushes its a good time to have them done as the lower arm has to come out anyway to remove the old and insert the new ball joint in the lower arm before reassembling the whole kit and caboodle |
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| 1numpty | Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:44 am Post #39 |
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My balljoint gave in a while back whilst driving round a roundabout which wasnt fun at all. my suspension gave in completely and the wheel was the only thing holding the car of the ground, which didnt do wonders to my bodywork on the arch as you can prob imagine. luckily i was only travelling about 15 on a tight roundabout and would hate to see the dammage on a car that was travelling faster. i had my balljoint replaced by someone for cheap. i only notice a short while back that it has not been put back in properly after thinking my tracking or something was out, but turned out the car is actually sitting about 10mm lower on one side. anyone have any idea how this can be pushed or squezed back in again as have tried lowering the joint onto a jack which didnt work. |
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| rhysmangatmotorsport | Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:22 pm Post #40 |
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Mangatmotorsport
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Theres tell tail signs for balljoint failure, creaking every time you turn the steering wheel, also stiffness on the steering, car feels heavy. soon as you feel this check your BALLS joints. lol easy way is to prise a crowbar between balljiont and wishbone and check for play or movement. |
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5:05 AM Nov 27
