Economy/Standard Switch

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Economy/Standard Switch; What happens when....
Topic Started: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:53 am (513 Views)
hitenb	Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:53 am Post #1
Member Posts: 2,220 Group: Members Member #2,754 Joined: June 9, 2008	Hi Gents, This is more of a general knowlege type question. What happens mechanically / electronically to the car when the switch is moved into 'S' apart from delimiting the rev range..?



RM Merc 190	Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:04 am Post #2
Member Posts: 3,400 Group: Members Member #1,114 Joined: March 29, 2007	See UKMerctechie's Comment Below. Edited by RM Merc 190, Wed Dec 3, 2008 2:30 pm.



hitenb	Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:10 am Post #3
Member Posts: 2,220 Group: Members Member #2,754 Joined: June 9, 2008	Thats true for later cars - mine is the slightly older one with no ECU, so there must be some other mechanism.



kentronix	Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:23 am Post #4
Admin Posts: 16,347 Group: Admin Member #147 Joined: January 20, 2006	I thought it was purely delaying the gearchange ?



hitenb	Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:30 am Post #5
Member Posts: 2,220 Group: Members Member #2,754 Joined: June 9, 2008	I think that switch does what Kenny said + RM Merc said.. a combination of the both.. Does it have any control or influence on the injectors?



Sev	Sat Aug 2, 2008 8:10 pm Post #6
No Longer a Registered Member Posts: 1,981 Group: Members Member #962 Joined: February 19, 2007	http://community.190revolution.net/gentlemens-lounge/12646-wondering-what-these-our-car.html



hitenb	Sat Aug 2, 2008 9:32 pm Post #7
Member Posts: 2,220 Group: Members Member #2,754 Joined: June 9, 2008	SEV - Thanks for the link



NEIL	Sat Aug 2, 2008 10:08 pm Post #8
Fewer Posts than Kenny Posts: 16,149 Group: Members Member #63 Joined: November 18, 2005	Sven, aka SurfBlau, has it slightly backward when he says, "In Economy the car has later shift-points, and will only start in 2nd no matter how much you stomp the throttle - in Standard it can be forced to start in 1st and shifts sooner.." In E the gearbox will shift sooner, whilst in S the gearbox will shift later, at higher revs. Throttle response feels heightened to me too, ie when on the motorway in S the car feels a little more responsive when accelerating, even if the gearbox doesn't kickdown.



hitenb	Sun Aug 3, 2008 11:09 am Post #9
Member Posts: 2,220 Group: Members Member #2,754 Joined: June 9, 2008	You're spot on Neil. Sven's got it the wrong way around! In E it changes sooner - i.e: ECONOMY!



Gary_b	Wed Dec 3, 2008 11:30 am Post #10
Ava' Banana... Posts: 360 Group: Members Member #2,734 Joined: June 6, 2008	After reading the 190 Manual, I found out that it has nothing to do with the revs. In E mode the car doesn't use 1st gear, as so always sets off in 2nd. In S mode you get all 4 gears.



mdavison	Wed Dec 3, 2008 11:39 am Post #11
Undergraduate Student (BSc Mech Eng & Manufacturing) Posts: 195 Group: Members Member #3,534 Joined: November 23, 2008	Even when the engine is cold it doesn't let you set off in first?



hitenb	Wed Dec 3, 2008 11:55 am Post #12
Member Posts: 2,220 Group: Members Member #2,754 Joined: June 9, 2008	I don't think the engine temperature matters, it behaves the same cold or warm I should think. I think the car recognises when it needs to go into first, I've noticed that at traffic lights when I sometimes need to take off quite quickly it begins in second, and quickly goes into first for a few seconds to give you the extra juice to move faster and it then changes back into second. Also, when you come to a complete standstill - say for example you've down-shifted into second and stopped, as you take off again the car goes into first gear. For the car to go back into second, I find that I usually have to red line it when it changes automatically at around 5K RPM! Do you guys find the same with your autoboxes?



Gary_b	Wed Dec 3, 2008 12:26 pm Post #13
Ava' Banana... Posts: 360 Group: Members Member #2,734 Joined: June 6, 2008	mdavison Wed Dec 3, 2008 11:39 am Even when the engine is cold it doesn't let you set off in first? I'll post a photo of the paragraph relating to the E/S setting from the 190e handbook later. Edited by Gary_b, Wed Dec 3, 2008 12:27 pm.



Ukmerctechie	Wed Dec 3, 2008 1:12 pm Post #14
Member Posts: 2,163 Group: Members Member #454 Joined: August 12, 2006	When the S mode is selected 2nd gear is used when moving off with low load with the lever in D or 3.When moving off with high load(heavy throttle) First gear is selected for maximum acceleration.It will also allow later upshifts of the transmission. When the E mode is selected The car will start off in second gear whilst the selector is in D or 3 in all load conditions.There is no part throttl kickdown possible,although Full kickdown is still possible.The Box will shift up sooner at all load speeds. When the E/S switch is operated it passes vacuum from the swichover valve on the bulkhead to the vacuum element on the kickdown cable.This operates a pin inside the lower part of the cable which pushes against a rod attached to the Bell crank of the control pressure valve inside the box. This limits the travel of the control pressure valve and thus limits the control pressure,dependent upon throttle position. When full kickdown is operated in E,the kickdown switch disconnects the power to the switch over valve and allows the vac element to disengage from The E mode whilst the kickdown switch is pressed. The E/S mode switch has no effect,and never has had any effect.on the engine management system. It does not alter fueling or timing. The reason the throttle feels sharper is,there is no resistance from the bellcrank spring when in S,so the pedal will feels slightly lighter and you retain part throttle kickdown which will make the car feel sprightly. Concerning the other gearpositions,if the 2 position is selected at standstill it will engage first gear in either E or S,it will hold this gear until the redline or you shift out of 2.If you shift out of 2 and then back into 2, it will then hold 2 gear until you shift into 3.This way you can theorectically drive the car as a semi auto.This is a debatable practice,but Mercedes have never confirmed(to my knowledge) whether it is a "feature" or unrecommended to do this.As such i dont recommend this practice(Although i use it this way myself with no damage,but it aint gonna cost me a new gearbox if it goes bellyup ) Basically thats how it works and what it does. Edited by Ukmerctechie, Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:20 pm.



NEIL	Wed Dec 3, 2008 1:17 pm Post #15
Fewer Posts than Kenny Posts: 16,149 Group: Members Member #63 Joined: November 18, 2005	Pin this, please.



kentronix	Wed Dec 3, 2008 1:25 pm Post #16
Admin Posts: 16,347 Group: Admin Member #147 Joined: January 20, 2006	thanks for the info, pinned AT ONCE



pentoman	Wed Dec 3, 2008 2:29 pm Post #17
Resident OVP Expert Posts: 2,697 Group: Members Member #11 Joined: November 6, 2005	thumbs up



RM Merc 190	Wed Dec 3, 2008 2:30 pm Post #18
Member Posts: 3,400 Group: Members Member #1,114 Joined: March 29, 2007	Why not get rid of the wrong info at the start of the thread too? It will stop people getting confused



Russell	Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:07 pm Post #19
Can now officially play at being Victor Maitland at the weekends :) Posts: 5,067 Group: Members Member #3,320 Joined: September 30, 2008	Even from Cold, when the car is in E, it always starts off in Second gear. I much prefer sooner changes so mines never out of economy.



Downside190	Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:21 pm Post #20
W201 Junky Posts: 2,538 Group: Members Member #1,576 Joined: August 5, 2007	this is why i prefer manuals...



Ukmerctechie	Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:23 pm Post #21
Member Posts: 2,163 Group: Members Member #454 Joined: August 12, 2006	Downside190 Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:21 pm this is why i prefer manuals... Why? Do you not like the letters S or E? Edited by Ukmerctechie, Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:24 pm.



Downside190	Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:33 pm Post #22
W201 Junky Posts: 2,538 Group: Members Member #1,576 Joined: August 5, 2007	Ukmerctechie Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:23 pm Downside190 Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:21 pm this is why i prefer manuals... Why? Do you not like the letters S or E? yea i get confused with the sport and ecomony options... sorry standard and economy not sport doh! I dont think i've ever been confused by me old stick shift box.



Ukmerctechie	Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:37 pm Post #23
Member Posts: 2,163 Group: Members Member #454 Joined: August 12, 2006	Manuals have their place i suppose,good for rehabilation of a injured left arm I dont really like the merc manual,but i have been brainwashed by Merc banging on about how good their Auto is.



RM Merc 190	Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:48 pm Post #24
Member Posts: 3,400 Group: Members Member #1,114 Joined: March 29, 2007	Manuals are great for fun driving down country lanes etc, however, they are a pain in the ass in London. Autos all the way there



kentronix	Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:57 pm Post #25
Admin Posts: 16,347 Group: Admin Member #147 Joined: January 20, 2006	One of each, at least



Russell	Wed Dec 3, 2008 5:05 pm Post #26
Can now officially play at being Victor Maitland at the weekends :) Posts: 5,067 Group: Members Member #3,320 Joined: September 30, 2008	Ukmerctechie Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:37 pm i have been brainwashed by Merc banging on about how good their Auto is. No brainwashing required - they just are!!!!



nullogik	Thu Dec 4, 2008 10:06 am Post #27
190LE Owner Posts: 628 Group: Members Member #2,274 Joined: February 14, 2008	I just found out that stopping the car and putting it in "2" then back in drive makes it start off in 1st gear even if its in Economy mode. Though it only works the once, you have to do it again the next time you start from a stationery position.



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