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| Subframe bushes; the rear subframe thread! | |
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| Topic Started: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:14 pm (1,779 Views) | |
| Abraxas | Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:14 pm Post #1 |
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Has anyone replaced the rear suspension subframe bushes? I just picked up an "advisory"on my MOT stating that the two rear rubbers are worn (though not bad enough for a fail). The repair kit consists of two rubbers, two new self locking bolts and two washer thingies. The manual show two special tools, an extractor and an insertion tool for the rubbers. Are these necessary? I was hoping to do the job in-situ and there doesn't look to be much room for squeezing the special tools in. The manual also says the bolt holes need to be cleaned out with a tap before reassembly - true or false? Mike |
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| Conrad | Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:26 pm Post #2 |
Gunman of the apocalypse
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Sorry - I didn't do mine myself, however my mechanic did it in an hour (R.I.P Alan) so I shouldn't imagine it's a hugely difficult job... Good luck! |
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| hal9000 | Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:34 pm Post #3 |
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I just did all mine this last weekend. Not that tough of a job at all, but it is somewhat time consuming. Since I did all 4 bushes (plus a bunch of other rear suspension work), I just dropped the entire rear subframe to do it. If you don't have an extraction tool, I suppose you could make one out of a C clamp and a few chunks of scrap metal. But I was able to get my bushes out with a large drift and a BFH. I just used a torch to slightly warm the subframe in the area of the bushes in order to help the bushing release (after 20 years, they were stuck pretty good). Then I just sprayed the subframe and the new bushings with rubber lube, and reversed the proceedure. The new bushings went in a cinch and the whole proceedure took me less than an hour to complete and came out perfect. R&R of the rear subframe took longer than replacing the bushings, but it's still not technically difficult to do. (For the curious, while the rear end was out I also power washed the entire thing, added adjustable camber arms, Installed Eibach rear springs, an Evo II rear sway bar and 300 TE end links, and Koni adjustable shocks. I should be done with the rear suspension for a while at this point) |
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| Chris Martens | Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:42 pm Post #4 |
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Mike, it's not as easy as one might think. If you don't have all that special tools, Mercedes recommends, you need the following: heat gun, hammer and a pry bar or a large srew driver 
That will do it... In case the underside of the car is very rusty, heat the bolt first, it may break while you try to loose it. You have to warm the subframe, so the rubber of the old part starts burning (ok, melting at least). Now you can hammer / pry the part out. IIRC the threads are not standard, so clean the old screw with a steel brush and than clean the thread with the old srew... Mounting the new parts is easy, once you are here. good luck, Christian |
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| Matt | Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:46 pm Post #5 |
Administrator - Hawk Eye
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Had to do mine on the 2 litre for its last MOT. Cant say as its the only thing I hadnt done myself on that car as I didnt want the hassle, so I bought the parts from Mercedes and let the garage sort it out. £50 labour is 100 times better than me getting frustrated with it myself :lol: And the garage said it wasnt that easy. |
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| Abraxas | Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:26 pm Post #6 |
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OK, thanks for the advice - I can see that I shall have to build up my courage to attack this one! Unless anyone can recommend a capable specialist in the Christchurch/Bournemouth area? - I can't afford Jacksons main dealer labour rates. Cheers, Mike |
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| hal9000 | Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:28 pm Post #7 |
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How is this not easy? It's just what I did. Maybe it's labor intensive, but it's much "easier" than something like doing your own alignment on your garage floor. No brain power involved in this one, Just a little muscle. |
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| Uk Merc Man | Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:43 pm Post #8 |
190e Leg-End, 'V' Hater, Man Lover
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i live in bournemouth - bh11 - you nearby? |
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| Chris Martens | Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:57 am Post #9 |
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hal, as you may have seen, my posting was just some minutes after your's. While I was typing my answer, your's wasn't there, so, yes, we are both basically saying the same. Concerning easy or not, maybe I have more brain cells than muscles?!  regards, Christian |
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| Abraxas | Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:30 pm Post #10 |
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Burton, near Christchurch - BH23 |
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| cossie connoisseur | Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:42 pm Post #11 |
fat tits
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Alum Chine
 Mini meet here we go 
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| hal9000 | Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:38 pm Post #12 |
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Haha! Not a bad problem to have. Apparently I'm unemcumbered as I didn't even bother to look at the time stamp though! |
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| dave_irl | Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:29 pm Post #13 |
I love offset.
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Handy thread this. Regarding the bushings themselves, did you all use MB ones or "spurious" ones from GSF? As there is a massive difference in price. But is there a huge difference in quality? After all it is a job that will probably only be ever done once.. Cant wait to attack mine with the hammer/prybar/fire
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| Matt | Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:36 pm Post #14 |
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Administrator - Hawk Eye
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I use genuine MB ones from the dealership. |
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| dave_irl | Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:40 pm Post #15 |
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I love offset.
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Thanks Matt I was leaning towards OEM too.. |
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| Robert Hall | Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:13 pm Post #16 |
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Ripped the rear subframe out last weekend and have removed the bushes ( Burning rubber lol
 nice ). Eurocar parts only list for the rear of the subframe not the front of it but after a bit of searching here are the part numbers from them.Rear ones 610220075 and for the front ones it's 62322016 even though when you search that number it comes up with nothing. |
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| dave_irl | Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:28 pm Post #17 |
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I love offset.
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Fun isnt it! Who needs spring compressors, trolley jack all the way  I bit the bullet and ordered all my subframe bushes from MB, along with all the repair kits, (basically new bolts nuts washers etc) for each of the arms, aswell as mounting kits for all the new dampers. New arms themselves were just too pricey from MB. I found a great deal on a set of new rear arms (all 8) from big online carparts place on US ebay, and I also got some ubertrick adjustable camber arms coming from USA too. Some new MB #1 spring pads all round are the icing on the cake. Can't wait til the bits arrive and I can start rebuilding. A spray in some black paint to kill a few rust spots and back in she goes.. With an LSD this time of course  rebuilt rear subframe of the month picture poll eh :lol: |
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| NEIL | Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:03 pm Post #18 |
Fewer Posts than Kenny
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Any chance you could paint all the pairs of arms in different colours, like this: How cool?
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| dave_irl | Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:07 pm Post #19 |
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I love offset.
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I was having a wander around work today and found (was looking for) a big hydraulic press, do you guys think its good a way as any to get them out? I wouldnt want to damage or bend the subframe, even though its seems easier than the hammer and fire method :ph43r: I also found a big sandblasting cabinet.. And theres some Polish mechanics pretty handy with the TiG/MiG wizardry.. Hmmm the subframe epic continues Meanwhile I wait for the front rear two bushes, MB doubled up on the rears and left out the front
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| dave_irl | Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:41 pm Post #20 |
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I love offset.
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Robert Hall's rebuild thread any one feel free to add in any links to subframe threads in here
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| dave_irl | Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:47 pm Post #21 |
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I love offset.
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I got the frame back today, dropped it to another place our work uses for work on the trucks. The lads there did a great job. Sandblasted and welded the two rusty holes by one of the mounting points. I love the sandblast finish, nearly seems a pity to cover it, but next week she's going for hot-dip galvanising, so it'll look even cooler then! Not to mention being rustproof for the next 70 years!! :lol: Enjoy:   Why Im never driving on a beach ever again!!    Why sandblasting rules:    
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| big al merc | Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:31 pm Post #22 |
Member
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we shall see you won't be able to help yourself the beach will be calling you each time you go near :lol: :lol: |
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| dave_irl | Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:44 am Post #23 |
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I love offset.
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Collected my newly "galved" subframe today! Its ubercool, and only cost me €20 Its out in the boot of the magic carpet, I'll put up a pic later. A little heavier than before as you'd expect with a new skin of Zinc, but hey, with eternal rustproofing on a very important structure of the car, who cares Bank holiday weekend here now I think I'll finally be able to rebuild it. |
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| Conrad | Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:57 am Post #24 |
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Gunman of the apocalypse
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Ummm, Dave... That HAZ is going to cause a hell of a lot of weakening on that joint - if you hit a bump hard I wouldn't hold up much hope of that not splitting again. |
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| Lewis 190E 2.5 16 | Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:39 am Post #25 |
I love speedbumps
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Black and Yellow does look good: (Taken from the Rev)  Heat Affected Zone - a narrow zone of material close to the cut edge that turns hard and brittle due to heat generated by the cutting/welding process. |
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| dave_irl | Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:51 am Post #26 |
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I love offset.
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Whats HAZ? It wasnt so much of a crack as two holes that have been filled, theres still some good metal bridging the gap.. Either way it was the sandblast lads took the liberty of welding it up for me (was gonna bring it to the lads here in our workshop) so not much I can do now!! The Galvanising has strengthened it a bit too. I hope/reckon it'll hold. And if not, I have a second subframe I can just start the whole process again 
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| Conrad | Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:16 pm Post #27 |
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Gunman of the apocalypse
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That blue-ing around the outside of the weld is the Heat Affected Zone. I might be completely wrong, don't take my word on it, but that's just my viewpoint looking at the photos. |
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| dave_irl | Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:33 pm Post #28 |
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I love offset.
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Why galvanising rules
Important to remember its done for rustproofing not looks, but it is shiny!! At the start Before After   Conrad I checked out the welds its seems ok now especially its been zinc'd over. But, I will check that area periodically when the car is back. Adds character to the car eh the part that may or may not break but is an excuse to get it up on the ramps.. :lol:
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| Lewis 190E 2.5 16 | Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:06 pm Post #29 |
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I love speedbumps
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Thats nice, going to be hard work to keep that clean. What colour are you doing the control arms? |
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| Conrad | Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:12 pm Post #30 |
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Gunman of the apocalypse
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Bloody hell, looks nice and even! We have a clause in our work quotations that says something about galvanising not guaranteed to be even because of different silicon levels within the steel - evidently Mercedes made a good job of these subframes and the steel they use.
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| dave_irl | Sat Nov 3, 2007 7:19 pm Post #31 |
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I love offset.
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I sized up the new rear bushings today with the nice "new" subframe, theres no way they are going in easy! Dont know about the front smaller bushings, as stupid MB still havent got them in for me yet, (they gave me 4 of the big rearones!!) I know the new zinc coating will have tightened things for a few mm but how did you guys get the new bushings in? Hydraulic press? |
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| merc190uk | Sat Nov 3, 2007 8:25 pm Post #32 |
Steve
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dave that looks sweet
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| cossie connoisseur | Sat Nov 3, 2007 10:12 pm Post #33 |
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fat tits
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are all subframes on all 190's the same? looking ace mate
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| cra_arc | Sun Nov 4, 2007 4:14 am Post #34 |
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wtf is that in the last pic ????? it looks like my efforts at welding lol |
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| dave_irl | Sun Nov 4, 2007 3:38 pm Post #35 |
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I love offset.
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Well I have this one that is the original one, I also have a spare one ex 2.5-16v, and they look pretty identical, e.g. the kink in the frame where the front diff mount is etc.. So I imagine they are all the same (bar evo's which are usually subtley different anyways) Cheers Steve, It'll look good when bolted on to the car, zinc frame, polished adj. camber arms, other control arms black, shiny red H&R springs, bright yellow spax dampers, and I think the Whiteline ARB's are some kind of nickel/titanium colour :lol: We'll see whenever they arrive though.. Still in development. So all in all she'll look kinda like Neils diagram, but in Technicolour! Col, I havent a clue, its not the neatest weld job in the world but it did the trick. See I was getting it sandblasted in one place and was going to get one of the expert mechanics in my work to weld it afterwards, but the sandblaster lads took the liberty of welding it up for me. Cant complain, the whole lot was done for free! and sure the galv. covers it all anyway but any suggestions about refitting the new bushings? |
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| Lewis 190E 2.5 16 | Sun Nov 4, 2007 3:53 pm Post #36 |
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I love speedbumps
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Would it not be better to grind the welding down abit so its all nice and flat, surpose it doesnt really matter if its going to be covered over... |
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| dave_irl | Sun Nov 4, 2007 4:02 pm Post #37 |
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I love offset.
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It already is! by a new layer of zinc.. |
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| dave_irl | Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:13 pm Post #38 |
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I love offset.
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Just to finish this story, I decided to paint it after all. More rust protection and also the galv just didnt look right after much thought 17 year old scrap metal: Sandblasted & welded: Galvanised:  Zinc primer:  One mega pimp subframe: 
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| Fearn | Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:28 pm Post #39 |
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Dudes, which is the front and which is the rear subframe bushes??? My MOT said I need new rear offside bush, But I had a look and it seems the front bush is quite loose and deteriorated, could someone show me on one of the subframe pictures posted, it be much appreciated. To replace the one bush do you need to loosen the whole subframe or not????? |
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| dave_irl | Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:59 pm Post #40 |
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I love offset.
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The subframe is wider at the front, and narrow at the back. The horizontal section with the 4 small holes is where the back of the diff bolts up to, you can see in the last pic I posted
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