Gospel Discussion Between a Christian and a muslim

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Gospel Discussion Between a Christian and a muslim
Topic Started: May 14 2008, 09:47 PM (65 Views)
Fouad	May 14 2008, 09:47 PM Post #1
Administrator Posts: 267 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: October 19, 2005	Gospel Discussion Between a Christian and Muslim It pleases and honors the Church of Love to present to you this tape which is a discussion between two Moroccans; one of them a Christian and the other a non-Christian. All of us hope that this cassette to be a reason for blessing and grace to many, amen. and now we begin with this hymn. (Hymn) # Hey brother, peace be unto you * And unto you be peace. Where have you been? # I’ve just been around. This morning I met someone who was asking me about someplace and I took him to it. On our way we brought up (jbed) a discussion (conversation) about religion and I found out he was a Christian. We talked a little about sins and their effect on a person. And I said in order to wipe away your sin you do (qoum - perform, exercise) a lot of things like prayer, fasting, tithing, giving alms and to do good to others. But he wasn’t in agreement with me. I didn’t understand very well his thinking and that’s why I turned to you in order for you to continue to explain to me and help me understand how Christianity remedies (3alej) the problem of sin. * First, I thank God who gave you the opportunity to talk about Christianity so that you have the desire to know where truth is. This is something good because every person must search for truth and if a person wants to succeed in this effort (elmes3a - endeavor) he needs to ask God for it because God is the only one who knows truth. He alone is able to guide a person. Secondly, the problem of sin, or transgression, it is the biggest problem in mankind’s life and the oldest problem and its the cause (aSl - source, origin, root) of the condition (elHala - state, situation) we are in. # How? * You are aware (khfa 3la - lit.- it isn’t hidden from you - ) that our original father is Adam. Adam was living in paradise. God gave him everything and he was enjoying (tmette3) the good things of paradise but after his sin he was thrown out of paradise. If you want to know well the story of Adam and his disobedience of God’s command and the consequences of that, look in the Bible in Genesis 3:1-7, 9-15............. # Do you have a Bible now? Yes there is. # OK, I will read now.. (reading) Now, what did you understand from this? # What I understood is that the serpent was able to seduce (gherra - tempt) Eve and enticed (Temme3 - lure) her that if she ate from the tree she would begin to know between good and evil. And in fact Adam and Eve responded to the enticement of the serpent and God punished them and threw them out of paradise. This is what I know. * Its good when you know this and you know that the serpent is Satan who is able to enter in at Eve’s point of weakness? And this is how all of us have become in our physical sinful nature. And the consequence of our sins is that God threw us out of paradise. And if we examine well the verses we will see that Adam and Eve were naked and didn’t know shame (khejel) because at that time they behaved innocently (openly) like a small child who walks around the house naked and doesn’t feel any shame, even the people who are with him don’t care. That is how it was with Adam and Eve. But after their disobedience Adam felt guilty and hid himself from God because his “nakedness” (lit. - genitals) was uncovered (nkasheh). Here we see the power of his disobedience. The disobedience of Adam left (j3el) a big separation (feSl - division) between God and man until (Heta wela) he was hiding himself from God. At first there was a good relationship and Adam was the best creation, God’s most loved one, even until now. But the relationship changed because God is just and it was necessary for him to punish Adam for his sins. Even though God desires Adam and loves him and he is dear to him nevertheless (ila an) this dearness wasn’t able to intervene and take his punishment (aljeza). And this is natural for when a son does wrong with his father he is punished because he loves his son and doesn’t want him to continue making mistakes. # You’re right, Adam sinned he must be punished. But I remember an expression (el3bara) that that man said to me and I don’t understand it. It is “the wages of sin is death”. * It says in the Bible, the Gospel, in the letter of Romans. 6:23 "because the wages of sin is death." Surely after the disobedience of Adam he distanced himself from God after he had been close to Him. From that time there became a large separation between God and Adam and the spiritual relationship between God and Adam died. And death in this verse means spiritual death not physical because we worship God with our spirit. That was the punishment of disobedience, death. After Adam had been living in paradise he was deprived (teHrem men) of all its good things and that life he was living died and it became like he was living in a cemetery, which is our world. # Rightly, if we picture life in paradise we need to consider this life like a cemetery in it there is only wars, evil and iniquity. But I have a question... * Yeah, you can ask any question and I ask God to help me answer all of your questions. # But, why do we carry the (punishment for the) sins of Adam? We don’t have any sin at all in this. * Many ask that question but it’s answer is easy because Adam, he is our father. He represents the human race or he represents anyone of us. Sin was able to enter into his heart and it easy for sin to enter into anyone of us. Possibly read the letter of Romans 5:12. # OK wait a minute. (read) * You saw now that sin and disobedience entered into the world and with sin was death. There was a distancing from God and this sin entered by one man, that is Adam. And after that it started to penetrate into everyone who comes into this world. We know a story which is close to Adam which shows us that people didn’t learn from Adam’s lesson. And this story is the story of Cain and Abel. Cain killed his brother even though he didn’t do anything to him. But Cain couldn’t learn from the lesson of his father even though the time was short between what happened to Adam and what happened to Cain. He also took his punishment. We aren’t any different than Adam or Cain because we always sin. Sin has a big effect in our lives. There is a well known story that reveals to us that people aren’t able to overcome sin even though they now the punishment of it, because people always blind themselves to the sins in their life. This story is about Noah. People in the days of Noah increased their disobedience and overstepped their bounds a lot (ie - were excessive in their sin) their evil and iniquity increased and their works angered God and he decided to destroy them after giving them a chance to repent and return to the right way. But their hearts and the original sin in them didn’t allow them to obey God and to follow his commands. God commanded Noah to make an ark. And God revealed his displeasure and his anger and sent upon those people a great flood and he destroyed all of mankind except for Noah and those with him. And after the flood, there began a new people with Noah and his children. But in spite of these new people there still remained a sinful nature; they couldn’t overcome it. Noah himself who was pleasing to God and was a great example of obedience committed a great sin. Lets look in Genesis chapter 9:20-23. # OK (reading) * Did you notice that even the prophets, God fearing people, sin. Even though Noah saw from the calamity of the flood, and saw well the anger of God how he dealt with disobedience, he couldn’t control himself. He also disobeyed God’s commands. How are we able to overcome the sins in our life and to do away with (qda 3la) it? # You are talking about those who did a lot of sins and their sins were greater since there were those who had sex with their daughters, or they worship idols and the sun and other created things, and still even to now some practice (qoum this but I’m talking about people who have small sins like lying or laughing at someone or some things like that. * Oh, here is the problem with people that they don’t understand what the effect of sin is and what is the meaning of sin. Sin means that you disobeyed the commands of God and regarded his commands as unimportant (stehn b - to lightly esteem). Sin then s disobedience. If we reflect on (taamel f) the sin of Adam he only ate an apple. Is there a sin smaller than this. That's right, for an apple he was thrown out of paradise. At that time did God look at the value of the apple? # No, not for the apple did God throw Adam out but for the one who disobeyed his command. Yeah, and God said to don’t lie and if you lie you disobey his command. Than you, by his judgement, are thrown out of paradise. # You are right about that. God doesn’t have this, small sin or big sin but what is important to him is that you obey his commands because God wants us to be without sin, pure, and our life to be holy with no fault in it like it was with Adam. # And now even though we are worshipping (serve) God and are praying and doing a lot of good things but still the effect of sin in our lives. * Exactly, that is the way it is because it is difficult for us to apply the regulations and the law. And good proof of that is that God after he saw the people rebel against him and saw also that it difficult for them to know that sin is present in their lives, he gave them decrees (regulations) through (3la yedd) the prophet Moses and these we know them as the ten commandments and they are present in Exodus chapter 20:1-17. Is it possible for you to read. Wait, wait before you read lets listen to this hymn. #OK (hymn) and (reading) * What we see from these decrees are the commands of God. The one who breaks it sins. Then this law reveals to us this thing is a sin and this thing is not a sin. From here it is evident that these commandments don’t have the power to take sin away from us and to remove it from our hearts. Now there doesn’t remain an excuse for someone to say that I don’t know what I did and I didn’t know I commited a sin and that this deed doesn't touch (mess) (offend) God. And also the law in its content (elmeDmoun) doesn’t say this sin is small and this is big. Sin, no matter its size (kif ma kan elHejm diyalha), it transgresses (siyy?a) God. # In reality I didn’t know that when I sin a small sin like I lie or I get drunk, I sin against God or I disobey one of his commands. I was thinking the good things I do are going to erase (mHa) my transgressions (siyyat) but now I know that I am not able to cast away the sin in my life, and that I am a sinful person, but how is it possible for me to overcome this sin which originates in me and what must I do. * In order for us to know how to overcome sin, and what we must do, first we need to know the planning (tedbir - organization) of God in this because we said after the sin of Adam, God didn’t abandon (txella 3la) man and this reiterates (raje3) the nature of God’s love. God loves us even though we commit sins. God had a plan from the beginning. Like we said at first, it was difficult for man by himself to be saved from sin. From the beginning God said the payment of sin is death. For there not to be this death God commanded the people to present an animal sacrifice. In reality that animal didn’t have power in order to take away sin from our hearts but it was signifing only the drawing near to God. When people were presenting a sacrifice to the priest they were expressing (3ebber) their regret (nnedem) and were trying to please God, but there was the problem, how many sacrifices could they present each day because we sin a lot of times in one day. So then the sacrifice had another role. # You confused me, so then where is the solution? Do you Christians have a solution or not? From your words it appears to me that there isn’t any hope and that all of us are in hell (abyss, chasm - alhaawiya). * You didn’t let me finish (my words), because I said to you the sacrifice had a role. And that role was to symbolize a sacrificial offering which by itself it is possible to save us and free us from the slavery of sin. We agree sin entered the world by one person. Don’t you see that it is logical (men almnTiqi) that just as it (sin) entered the world by one person that it needs to leave by one person? # This is something logical, but how is it possible for someone to free the world from sin and you said that everyone is sinful.? * Certainly, the Bible says in the letter to the Romans chapter 3:23 “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”. All people are sinners and no one is able to save the others but God himself is the one who is able to save us. Is that right? # That’s right, besides God it isn’t possible for anyone to save us. * In the Bible there are symbols, and there are prophesies, in other words prophets prophesied that there was going to come someone and he alone is the one who is able to save people from sin and save them from death. # How, since we are in agreement that no one can save others except God. * But listen well. God told us he was knowing that people were powerless (3ajez) to save themselves from sin and God tried a lot with people but people didn't understand the way of God and on this basis God saw that the solution is possible to come only from him. It doesn't matter (ma 3la ila) unless people accept this solution, or they are going to remain dead because of their sins. And we know that God is able to do all things but it is difficult for us to understand a lot the things concerning God and because of this the solution that I am going to tell you about is difficult for you to understand. Even if (mhema) the method (usloub) of my convincing is strong, even if I beautified my words for you, even if I used slyness with you, if God doesn’t help you to understand this truth it isn’t possible for someone else to convince you of it, even if I use intelligence or a strong convincing method. In order for God to help you you need to open your heart to him and ask him with sincerity, and (jediya), and honesty (good faith) to guide you to understand the truth. And be sure that God isn’t going to leave you wondering (taih) by yourself in your questions. God tried to guide you and to guide people from the beginning and he isn’t going to be incapable of helping you because that is required of Him to help you. # Your right because I had noticed many pious (religious) people in different religions that depend on the strength of their persuassion and the strength of their influence on people but you refreshed me (riiHa) when you said that God alone is he who is able to help me understand the solution of this problem. * Yes, God alone is able to help you but you need to open your heart to Him and ask him to guide you. Before us is only one means (wesiila) or you could say one opportunity that God gives to you (lit.-opens to you) to open your insight (understanding) or one light which God wants to send to your heart so you know where truth is. We said, God saw that the solution must be from him. In as much (madama) as person can not save himself from sin God saw that he needed to come down (to descend) to the earth and live among the people and reveal to them himself the truth. # How (What!)! God come down and live with people? Are you crazy!? How can God leave his greatness and his glory and live among people filled with sin and filled with transgressions? * I just told you a little while ago you need to ask God to help you and to understand these things. I have a question for you. Is it possible for you to know everything about God? # No, no one can understand God’s nature because God has no boundaries but people’s mind’s are limited. * So if God doesn’t show us Himself by Himself and declare Himself by Himself, is it possible for us to know something? Earlier we agreed that God loved people and he wanted them and for this reason he created them. Therefore (madama) his love doesn’t allow him to abandon (tkhela 3la) people. He needed, by himself, to save them from sin in order to fulfill his justness. If we see from the beginning that God was very close to Adam and he commanded him directly to eat everything in the garden except for one tree. We know that God talked and appeared to some prophets like Moses, we apply (Tleq 3la) to Moses the description (waSf) that he was a mouthpiece (kliim) of God. Why did God show (keshf 3la) his presence to all those people? At that time, was his dignity lost? No the opposite (is true). God is humble more than anyone and no one is able to arrive at the humility of God. # This is difficult to understand but I see that this is reasonable. God came down and and spoke to and appeared to many prophets. And we know God is present in any place and at any time but what is the advantage or benefit (elfaida) of God coming down to the earth? * A very good question. We said that sin entered by one person, and we said that it is logical (men elmenTiqi) for it to leave by one person but it is necessary for this person that he be without sin or without transgression. We know that there isn’t anyone that is like that except for God alone. And God saw to exist in a person, in other words the body of Christ. As long as (ma dam) God is able to be in any place why isn’t he able to be in the body of a person? # It is possible for God to do anything and He is all powerful but was it possible for God to exist in the world without taking on a human body? * Yes, but we said that sin entered because of a person and it needs to leave by one person who was born without sin. Maybe you know someone without sin? # No * Do you know that one person wasborn without a father? # Of course, Jesus was born from Mary a virgin. * Do you know the wisdom in that he wasn’t born from a human father was so that he wouldn’t inherit the sin of humankind and so that his body would be pure. Jesus is this body that came from God without sin without any transgression. Jesus (3isa) is known in the Bible as Jesus Christ (yasu3 elmesiH). And clearly, he didn’t commit any sin in is life. The Bible says in the first epistle of Peter 2:22 (“He committed no sin , and no deceit was found in his mouth”.) Christ was the only person who came into this world without sin. And in the epistle of Hebrews 9:14 (“...the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God.) # Excuse me, but you say that Christ is the son of God. How can God have a son? * That’s right, it isn’t possible for God to have a son because God far above (munezzeh 3n) a sexual relationship. We don’t say that Christ the son of God came through the way of an origin (elitSal) sexual. Because Christ is a part (or component) from God.. This part entered into the body of a person in order for that body to carry the character (khaSa’is) of God. Sonship here means the membership (intima’) and unity of Jesus in his essence (eljouher) divinity with God. If we want to know God we need to look at Jesus and with him we know the will of God and His character. One thing we say is that this is a son of Algeria, or son of Morocco, or son of Egypt. Does this mean that Morocco or Algeria had (sexual) relations with someone and gave it an Algerian son. We say this is a Moroccan, a son of the Sahara, this means that through this person we can know the life, and nature, and culture of the Sahara from him. Now you are a son of who? #I am a son of our house. * So then if we want to know your house we look at you. So than, son of the house means you orginate (ntami) from that house. And that is like Jesus, he orginates from God and because of this we call (Tleq 3la) him the name Son of God. Its unthinkable even for God have a sexual relation. And a lot of people try to spread around (Tleq elisha3a) that the Chrisitans say Jesus is the son of God. # OK, there is no problem in the title (llqeb - name) of Jesus, and now Son of God means the membership and carrying of the characteristics of him. What is the purpose for God to put His essence in a person? * Before I answer your question. Lets listen to this song. * Now I will answer your question which says what is the purpose for God putting his essence into a person? We said that people were presenting sacrifices to God in order for him to atone for their sins but this sacrifice wasn’t enough to save people from sin which is original in his (mans) nature. For this a perfect sacrifice was needed which could do away (qeDa 3la) with sin. And this reveals the value of blood with God. In order for us to do away with sin it is necessary for blood to be shed. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice who was without sin like it says in the gospel of John 1:29 “..look the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.” God chose to present the sacrifice by himself like he did with Abraham after he commanded him to kill his son, he sent him a ram. Certainly Jesus was crucified and shed (hreq) his blood and died on the cross and his death on the cross was the death for the punishment, for the sins which are in us. And the blood which Jesus shed on the cross this is what did away with (qeDaa 3la) sin and disobedience and his death also was the atonement (alkefara 3la) for our sins, like it says in Romans 6:10 “For the death that he died he died to sin once for all....” The death of Christ was prophesied by many prophets a long time before Christ came. These prophecies are written in the Zabor and the Torah and the Jews still have the Torah which in it is written these prophecies. And Jesus was able to fulfill these prophecies and he was able by his death to save us from death because the wages of sin is death. This was for us reconciliation (almeSaleHa) with God after the relationship between us and God was cut off because of sin. It is possible for you to read the Holy Bible which contains the Torah, Zabor and the Injil and you will see this well. # If Christ wiped away our sins and transgressions why do we still have problems in our lives? * Along with (ila janeb) the death of Christ, we need to believe that he died for our sins. This is like a present. If someone gave you a present how is it possible for you to benefit from his present? You need to first accept it from him and open this present if you want to benefit from it. The one who doesn’t believe that Jesus is the son of God who came into the world there is going to remain with him a problem with sin. It says in the gospel of Mark 16:16 “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” So then if a person wants to be finished with the problem of sin it is necessary for him to believe that Jesus died for him and also we need to confess his sins. I know that the confession of our sins is difficult because we haven’t become accustomed to confessing to our sins. And always we cover up (ghaDa) our sins but the Bible says in the epistle of first John 1:5-10; maybe you could read it. # (reading) * You saw that these verses say that we need to be in fellowship with God and this fellowship cannot be (exist) unless we practice the truth in our lives and confess our sins to God. If we say that we don’t have sin we lie to ourselves and as well we lie to God, because everyone sins. It is enough for you my brother to confess your sins and trust in God who created you and truly believe that he saved you from the biggest problem in your life and gave you eternal life and guaranteed you heaven. Consider (ta'mmal - contemplate ) and think well about the mercy and justice of God and consider the free (mjania) grace of salvation because he showed you the most wonderful grace which is free salvation. It says in Romans 3:23-24 “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.” The one person who paid the price is Jesus Christ with his death on the cross. And he rose from the dead in order to show us that he is stronger than death and overcame death. We the believers in Christ are like one accused of a "crime" (lit.- an accusation) and the judge ruled that he is innocent and erased (mHa) all accusations against him and he is regard by the law as if he wasn’t accused. This is how we are when we believe in Jesus that he the son of God came in a fleshly body and was crucified, and died, and rose from the dead. He erases all of our sins and doesn’t anymore count our sins. Our page becomes white and pure like we never sinned. And now my brother you only need to believe and open your heart to him. Jesus says in Revelation3:20 (reading). And he right now is standing outside the door of your heart, knocking. Are you ready to open the door of your heart? If you are still not willing ask him to give you the strength to open the door of your heart to him. You have freedom to accept or not accept but you need place your confidence in God because he alone can guide you. And now it is good for us to read a verse from the gospel of John 3:14-18. # OK (reading) Excuse me I don’t understand the intended meaning of the first verse. * The verse that says ...”as Moses hung the snake in the desert.”? # Yeah, that verse. * Oh, I need to explain to you a little. In the days of Moses after the children of Israel left Egypt under the leadership of the prophet Moses, the Israelites became lost in that land and God sent snakes to them in order to punish them for their disobedience. But, the one who were close to dying because of the snake bites it was possible for him to be healed if he obeyed the command of God. This command commanded them to raise up their heads and look at a brass serpent. This snake was hung on a pole (3emoud). And sure enough the one who lifted his head and looked at the raised up brass snake, believing that God was going to heal him, was healed and got up healthy. That brass snake symbolizes the cross of Jesus because Jesus was also hung on a cross and died on it. And in the same way, the one who looks at the Lord Jesus on the cross he is saved from the bite of sin that kills. And here we see that symbol which was before Christ came and which is written in the Torah and Zabor and which is still preserved by the Jews. Jesus didn’t come to be a normal prophet because he had an authority which isn’t normal. His miralces reveal this and no one can deny it. And one of these is the resurreection from the dead. We know that only God can give life to the dead. And we will look at a parable that Jesus gave us. Lets look at it in the Gospel of Matthew 22:1-13 # (reading) * In order to understand the aim of this verse we need to know the traditions of the banquet at that time because for their invitations there was two announcements; an announcement for the invited guest to attend, the second in order to (let them) know that everything was ready. But the one in charge of this banquet invited his guests three times but they refused (to come). Jesus had in mind (ie - was intending) that this one in charge of the banquet is God. God summons us a lot of times. Like we said from the beginning of creation he is calling people to return to the (right) way. And part of the tradition was that the guests were given clothing to dress with in order to come into the party. And someone must not refuse those clothes and if he didn't dress he was despising (ie - not honoring) the person giving the party. Here the intention is that we need to be dressed with faith. And that person who was asked by the one in charge of the party , how did you enter the party without dressing with the clothing that was given to you, it symbolizes the disobedient person who refused the free gift of God. And God is preparing for us a big banquet in heaven and Jesus prepared for us the "clothing" in order to enter the kingdom of God. It remains with us the choice; either we refuse the invitation which God offered to us and choose our death or we accept the invitation and are saved for eternal life and gain residency in the kingdom of God. God extended his hand to us and opened his arms to us, why refuse him? Now do you understand everything I said to you.? # I understand a little butI need to research some things that still haven't come to mind. * You are welcome any time if you have a question.. # OK, good-bye for now. * Come here! After we listen to this hymn.
	(And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature). (Mark 16:15 ) Download Movemegod Toolbar the first christian toolbar http://movemegod.ourtoolbar.com/ Christian Moroccan website


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