If Jesus is Divine, Is God Really an Absolute One?

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If Jesus is Divine, Is God Really an Absolute One?; Jesus is God .
Topic Started: Oct 28 2006, 08:00 PM (46 Views)
Fouad	Oct 28 2006, 08:00 PM Post #1
Administrator Posts: 267 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: October 19, 2005	A great controversy that has plagued the Christian church for 1700 years has developed because of the way that Jesus speaks about the Father in the gospel of John. In that gospel he clearly speaks as though the Father was someone other than himself - In John, Jesus uses the word father 104 times, in Matthew 54 times, in Luke 36 times, in Mark 18 times. In John he clearly contrasts the terms father and son in such a way that one would draw the conclusion that the father was someone other than himself. None of these phrases occur in any other gospel but John John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. 17 Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father? John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. A great key to the understanding of the words of Jesus when he speaks of the Father in the gospel of John is Jesus’ own explanation of the mode and manner of his speech. He declares in John 16:25, 26 that he speaks of the Father in proverbs. From the text it is possible to understand what this word proverbs actually means. Jesus contrasts this word proverbs with the word plainly in vs 26. John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall show you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: The phrase - At that day - "That day Ekeine that he, hemera, day, means that great Day of the Lord, the day of judgment. Also, the expressions that day, the last day, the Day of the Lord, the day of judgment all refer to the same thing." Zodiates, Lexical Aids to the New Testament. We must reconcile Jesus’ divinity with God’s Profound Oneness God declares Himself to be a single deity when he uses the title Lord Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Zech. 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Eph. 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism God declares Himself to be a single deity when he uses the title God Mal. 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: Rom. 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 1Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Eph. 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 7742 times in the Old Testament God refers to Himself with singular personal pronouns, I, me, mine. In addition to these he is referred to with singular personal pronouns, he, his. ‡ Isa. 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. ‡ Isa. 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. ‡ Isa. 43:13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? ‡ Isa. 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. ‡ Isa. 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. What about the plural pronouns in Gen 1:26, etc.? These pronouns used during the creation of man could never negate all of the singular pronouns that are used in every other place. The Hebrew scholars call them plurals of majesty, plurals of deliberation. Jesus used such plurals when speaking of himself. John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. Paul also used such plurals when speaking of himself. 1Cor. 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 1Cor. 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 1Cor. 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. What about the uniplural word, Elohim? Elohim does not refer to a plurality of persons. It refers to a plentitude of might. For this reason even Moses was called Elohim, Exod. 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God. Thirty five times the word Elohim is used in Genesis one. It is invariably used with singular verbs, and/or pronouns when it refers to the God of Israel. 45 times the God of Israel is called the Holy One ‡ Jer. 51:5 For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel. ‡ Ezek. 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel. ‡ Isa. 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. ‡ Isa. 40:25 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. ‡ Isa. 41:14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel. ‡ Isa. 41:16 Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD, and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel. ‡ Isa. 41:20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it. ‡ Isa. 43:3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee. ‡ Isa. 43:14 Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships. ‡ Isa. 43:15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King. ‡ Isa. 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. Why did Jesus speak about the Father as though the Father was other than himself? There are no doubt many reasons for this. Following are some compelling reasons for him to do so. He could not commit the cardinal sin of Satan, grasping for preeminence. He had to abide by our rules, the rules which apply to human beings in order to transfer justice from a just God to the sacrificial lamb, Jesus Christ, a human being. He had to be crucified. Not even the wicked men of this world would have knowingly crucified a deity. this article from : whoisjesus.com
	(And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature). (Mark 16:15 ) Download Movemegod Toolbar the first christian toolbar http://movemegod.ourtoolbar.com/ Christian Moroccan website


stanleyg	Nov 9 2006, 11:19 AM Post #2
Unregistered	Jesus was born of the Holy Ghost as a quickening spirit. The Holy Ghost (aka Holy Spirit or Comforter) is God's spoken word. Jesus received the power of God's spoken word by virtue of His immaculate conception and/or spiritual birth. In contrast the first man Adam was formed from God's own breath as a living soul. Thus, Adam had not been blessed with the birth of the Holy Ghost as a quickening spirit. Eve was formed from Adam's own body. As such, she too was absent of the Holy Ghost. Thus, Eve was vulnerable to the deceiving tongue of the serpent in the garden. She trusted the serpent's word over God's spoken word. Both Adam and Eve had ignored to follow God's instructions. He had instructed Adam to eat from the tree of life. God has planted the tree of life to grow the fruit of the spirit. Had they eaten thereof, then God would have blessed them with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit empowers our human soul to have eternal life. Otherwise our soul is lost or dies due to the absence of God's spoken word. Instead, the serpent lured Eve to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He had tainted the tree with leaven (i.e. pride) to poison the mind of Eve to think that it would lift her up to become wise as the gods. Instead, the leaven had lifted Eve's soul up in pride and disconnected her from the power of God's spoken word. Adam, unaware, trusted his faith to follow after Eve. He too was lifted up in pride. As a result, the soul of Adam and Eve suffered a spiritual death.
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may	Nov 10 2006, 07:35 AM Post #3
Unregistered	I have been listening to sermons by a pastor named David Hogan who is a missionary in Mexico. Jesus raises the dead through this man and his co-workers in Christ. And all kinds of sickness is healed, and demons are cast out in Jesus' name. Some people say that God does not do these kinds of miracles anymore, but the Bible says that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. I have personally seen the dead raise. It was my turtle and I was 11 years old, but a dead body is a dead body. And that was not the first or last miracle He has done in my life. It is awesome that we have a God who is like our God. IT is awesome that He is who He is, and that He is. If you want to listen to his sermons, you can go to www.fuegodedios.com. Much love to all y'all, May
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stanleyg	Nov 10 2006, 04:21 PM Post #4
Unregistered	My first and foremost question is what is the will of our heavenly Father? Jesus sought the will of His Father and so should we. Quote: John5 [30] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. I am sure there may be many wonderful works being done to cast out devils or raise the dead. Yet, such is iniquity in Jesus' sight. Not everyone shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but the one who seeks to do the will of our heavenly Father. Quote: Matt7 [20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. [24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: [25] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. Our mortal flesh has been sentenced to death through the sin of Adam. Thus, we can't trust in the flesh. Rather, we must trust in God, who has created us from the clay. Otherwise, we will become susceptible to deceptions of the serpent, same as Eve. She trusted what her eyes had seen, rather than what her heart knew. In our heart, we know that our Father loves us. He has sacrificed His Son, and resurrected him from the dead. What more miracles do we need to see to become convicted that God can raise the dead? Quote: 2Cor1 [9] But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: Amen!
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conan025	Dec 3 2006, 12:21 AM Post #5
Newbie Posts: 6 Group: Members Member #66 Joined: November 1, 2006	All orthodox Christians agree that Jesus is God and Man. Exactly what we mean by this is something that the Church struggled with for several hundred years, as Fouad pointed out. I would point out such passages as John 1, and Matthew 28:19. The doctrine of the Trinity is the only way to do justice to the biblical data. It is summed up by the Nicene Creed, adopted in 325 A.D. in response to the heretical teaching of Arius that Christ was merely an exalted creature: http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/nicene.htm



conan025	Dec 4 2006, 12:24 AM Post #6
Newbie Posts: 6 Group: Members Member #66 Joined: November 1, 2006	To furthur develop my thought (since I had to rush off to mass yesterday), we also have Pslam 45:7 (also quoted in Hebrews 1:9), which clearly show at least two persons: you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions; For that matter, when Wisdom is personified in Proverbs and elsewhere, the early church understood this as referring to Christ. That's why the emperor Justinian named his magnificent church in Constantinople Haiga Sophia, or "Holy Wisdom". They even saw the Trinity in Genesis 1:1-3. God, His spirit hovering over the waters, and His word (Logos, or Christ). So we do have these hints even in the Old Testament, made more clear in the New Testament, and further developed as the Church deepened it understanding in the following centuries.



may	Jan 14 2007, 03:46 AM Post #7
Unregistered	Stanley, you said "Both Adam and Eve had ignored to follow God's instructions. He had instructed Adam to eat from the tree of life. God has planted the tree of life to grow the fruit of the spirit. Had they eaten thereof, then God would have blessed them with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit empowers our human soul to have eternal life. Otherwise our soul is lost or dies due to the absence of God's spoken word." Nowhere in Genesis does God command them to eat of this tree. He tells Adam and Eve that they may eat of any tree but the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And the fruit of the spirit are the attributes produced by God's spirit in our lives; fruit is a word used as a metaphor. Faith in Jesus and what He did gives us the right to have eternal life, and the Holy Spirit is given to us as a deposit and to guide us in paths of righteousness as we are being sanctified. We must be very careful to not add our own imaginations to the Word of God. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. And yes, there are people who cast out devils and yet are not of God, but God will be their judge. We must be concerned with our own walk, because some things are so hidden in the heart of man that we cannot see them in order to discern them. But God still does miracles and casts our demons, because He is a God who does not change (thank God!)
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