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| CNN Airs U.S. Soldiers Being Killed in Iraq | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 23 2006, 02:34 PM (1,182 Views) | |
| etphonehomeyo | Oct 24 2006, 02:04 PM Post #31 |
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baba booey!
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i do most definitely think the people of the u.s. were deceived by the bush administration about the reasons for going to war. they made it sound like saddam had something to do with september 11th. even if they didn't come out and say it, it seemed to be implied. also, the reasons for the war seem to change whenever people get sick of one reason. weapons of mass destruction. oh, there weren't any? okay, we went to liberate. yeah, right. i really don't know what the real reason we went was for, but i know it wasn't for any reason they gave us. if we really went over there because of weapons of mass destruction, then how do we explain north korea? if we went over there for terrorism, why did we pretty much drop the country where the terrorists who attacked the u.s. came from and focus on a completely unrelated place? also, going over to "liberate" the people of iraq (even though that is totally not the real reason) would have been a terrible idea, anyway. a country can't go into another country, overthrow their government, put one to it's own liking in power, and expect it to work, no manner how bad the previous one was. if a country is going be reformed, it needs to reform itself. the people need to have the passion to overthrow the government and only then, when they are that passionate about it will it work. at some point, people are going to get fed up and we're going to leave iraq just like vietnam. we will never, ever win this. and the thing that is really sick is how bush still acts like it was the right thing to do. why can't he just admit he was wrong? he doesn't want to look like an idiot, so he'll just keep letting more people die. |
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| TheSmashedGuitar | Oct 24 2006, 02:08 PM Post #32 |
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Love Will Tear Us Apart, Again
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I meant revenge for Bush as like a personal vendetta, as a way to "finish the job." After all, he did gdet very personal about it with satements such as "he tried to kill my daddy!" Yes, I am aware of the weapons you found, and just as you said the intelligence failures were exagerrated, the amount of nuclear weapons was vastly exagerrated as well. The Bush Admistartion made it seem like they had 100,000 some nukes which is obviously not the case. Plus, we tried to make aconnection between Al Queda and Saddam's Regime, which didn't exist. The two despised each other. Yea, I know it;s differen warfare, but obviously we didn't bring enough ideas going in. The area is in chaos, and I agree with you we don't need large amoutns of troops like WW2, but I believe we should have gone in with a better strategey for keeping the region stable. Though I think we're spending money in the wrong places; we're buying so much advanced weaponry when not all of our soldiers even have adequate body armor. On Darfur, I agree. The point I was trying to make was that we act like we have the right to intervene in everything, and then we don't when it counts. Having friends/family in the military I don't think creates bias at all. I know two people in Iraq at the moment and one died last week, so don't confuse Anti-War with Anti-Troops. They are totally different. Second rebuttal? |
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| donnacorleone | Oct 24 2006, 02:14 PM Post #33 |
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Maxwell
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1.) I nominate TheSmashedGuitar for president. 2.) I agree with a lot of the things you, etphonehomeyo, said but we can't forget that we do still have troops in Afghanistan as well. |
| If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. | |
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| etphonehomeyo | Oct 24 2006, 02:15 PM Post #34 |
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baba booey!
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oh, i know. i think the fact that we're in iraq is wrong, so that's what i'm focusing on. it actually makes sense to be in afghanistan. |
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| heybulldog | Oct 24 2006, 02:18 PM Post #35 |
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Elmore James
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I'm not saying that anti-war = anti troops i was just putting it out there that i get my families point of view quite frequently (which is obviously very pro-war in iraq) since they decided to go fight there for multiple tours of duty. no attack on you zachy About not being well equipped: i think its HILARIOUS that most soldiers dont seem to think they are lacking correct body armour/ armoured cars, etc... yet politicians think they are. i guess i just dont trust how the media blows things out of proportion like that. and to whoever said this: "country can't go into another country, overthrow their government, put one to it's own liking in power, and expect it to work, no manner how bad the previous one was. " ummmm....huh?? japan after WWII? working pretty well. Its done all the time. we can NEVER go into another country and overthrow them?? AND, we did not "forget about afghanistan". there are still troops there fighting. i know people love to throw the whole "we havent caught osama" thing in bush's face...but who's to say we would have caught him had we not invaded Iraq anyway? oh, and i dont believe this, but i just wanted to throw it out there. what would machiavelli say about the war in Iraq? perhaps if the act accuses the result excuses? ends justify the means type thing?? (again, i think there WAS a legitimate reason to invade Iraq, but for those who dont...what do you say to ol' Mach's philosophy on that)? |
| When it rains and shines, it's just a state of mind | |
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| donnacorleone | Oct 24 2006, 02:20 PM Post #36 |
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Maxwell
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Oh I agree completely. |
| If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. | |
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| TheSmashedGuitar | Oct 24 2006, 02:22 PM Post #37 |
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Love Will Tear Us Apart, Again
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The ends justifying the means thing I disagree with. On the equipment thing, I will look more into it. If you are right, I will heed to that point. Now what are your rebuttals towards my positions on US strategey, the exagerration of weapons and false connection between Saddam and Al Queda? |
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| heybulldog | Oct 24 2006, 02:28 PM Post #38 |
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Elmore James
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i'm not stupid, i know there was exaggeration of the Iraq as a threat. I just believe that even without that, it was still a major threat to the US and the world. I mean there were legitimate concerns with having a man in power who was capable of the things Saddam and his regime did.
I also dont see what the alternatives would have been?? more resolutions? sanctions?? nothing?i'll get to strategy later legal studies class!!!!
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| When it rains and shines, it's just a state of mind | |
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| etphonehomeyo | Oct 24 2006, 02:30 PM Post #39 |
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baba booey!
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well, world war ii is an exception, i mean look at germany. i did generalize too much with that. but, with the middle east specifically, it just doesn't seem to work. they have been under too much control by the western world for so long that they don't trust us. this has been going on for a long, long time. a western country (used to be the british) will go in and try to shape the people. at first, they went along with it, but when they see the motives aren't really to help them and that they end up helping the other power more than their own people, it changes. the middle east didn't have a problem with the u.s. for a long time. of course, the resentments begin to form because the west is so over bearing. |
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| donnacorleone | Oct 24 2006, 02:31 PM Post #40 |
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Maxwell
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I think, and I could be completely wrong here but it's what I got out of what she said, that Aarika was talking more about the arrogance of our government when she said that. And I think that's what a lot of these countries' problems are with us; that we can be so damn arrogant a lot of the time. |
| If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. | |
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| TheSmashedGuitar | Oct 24 2006, 02:32 PM Post #41 |
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Love Will Tear Us Apart, Again
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I agree with you. It was a still a threat, I just have a problem with them sortof of "half-lying" to get us in. It just makes me feel icky, though their intentions were/are good. Can't wait to hear the rest of your arguement. (So far, no statistics on armor in Iraq-so I'll take your word for now.) |
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| etphonehomeyo | Oct 24 2006, 02:35 PM Post #42 |
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baba booey!
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i would also like to add that i really, really don't like the idea of striking first like we did with iraq. it's almost like giving someone the death penalty because they could commit a murder. i just don't like it. remember shock and awe? imagine all the people who died. all of the innocent people in iraq who die every day because we were doing something "just in case." |
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| ChouxPastryHeart | Oct 24 2006, 04:58 PM Post #43 |
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Pot-Smoking FBI Member
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This is why people originally say that "war is bad and it is wrong", because NO GOOD COMES OF IT. iTS ALL PETTY!! Especially now that people are litigating about whats right and wrong about screw screw, and the different degrees of offending. FUCKING HELL the war and the terrorism is GROSS ENOUGH!!! |
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| heybulldog | Oct 24 2006, 05:46 PM Post #44 |
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Elmore James
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ok, but the people we were attacking IN Iraq had ALREADY committed murder. it wasnt just speculation. HENCE, why Saddam and other Iraqi leaders are on trial now for murder/torture/etc. they have already killed thousands of iraqi's, coalition troops during the first gulf war, ..invaded kuwait, etc. its not just speculative is all im saying. and yes innocent people die in war, but unlike WWII "blanket bombings", this is more precise target bombing, so dont spin it like we are just killing innocent people randomly. |
| When it rains and shines, it's just a state of mind | |
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| etphonehomeyo | Oct 24 2006, 05:56 PM Post #45 |
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baba booey!
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1. i never said we were randomly killing innocent people. i don't think it's on purpose, but it's obviously happening and i refuse to ignore that. 2. yes, saddam killed a lot of people, but a lot of people we killed would still be alive if we would have never gone there. i know that happens in every war, but i see more of a point to other wars. world war II had to happen. this one didn't. |
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cry 


I also dont see what the alternatives would have been?? more resolutions? sanctions?? nothing?
legal studies class!!!!

6:25 AM Jul 11