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| CNN Airs U.S. Soldiers Being Killed in Iraq | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 23 2006, 02:34 PM (1,183 Views) | |
| donnacorleone | Oct 23 2006, 06:45 PM Post #16 |
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Maxwell
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The thing is that we have a bad habit of sanitizing things in America. In other countries, people are shown being killed in war etc. all the time. I think, as truly awful as it is, it can aid in having a more realistic grasp of the severity of the situation. |
| If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. | |
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| ihateguitarists | Oct 23 2006, 06:58 PM Post #17 |
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v_v
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That's what I was saying. When someone says, "Okay, this is terrible, 83 American troops have been slain in Iraq this month," it's totally different and wouldn't have a fraction of the effect on politics or the war if we were presented with video footage of all 83 deaths. |
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| heybulldog | Oct 24 2006, 07:44 AM Post #18 |
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Elmore James
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I get everyones point that showing the deaths can have an effect on the american public. i just still dont think its morally right to show these deaths on the news, no matter what may come of it. who was it? Immanuel Kant?? who said that people should NEVER be used as a means to an end, but only be treated as an end in themselves. I guess i would just be furious if the news showed the death of one of my friends/family members who are serving in Iraq/ Afghanistan. |
| When it rains and shines, it's just a state of mind | |
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| etphonehomeyo | Oct 24 2006, 08:15 AM Post #19 |
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baba booey!
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i mean, i don't think it's a good thing or anything, i just feel it needs to be done. it might not be morally right, but the way i look at it is that it's more morally wrong that we're there in the first place. i guess it's just one bad thing outweighs another in my mind. |
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| donnacorleone | Oct 24 2006, 10:16 AM Post #20 |
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Maxwell
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Right. I think that it's easier to point the finger at CNN and say they were wrong for showing this than to look at the bigger picture and face the fact that the bigger "wrong" is that we're still over there in the first place. |
| If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. | |
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| heybulldog | Oct 24 2006, 11:29 AM Post #21 |
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Elmore James
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i guess i just cant agree with your opinion about the video being acceptable because its "morally wrong to be over there in the first place"....because i DONT think it IS morally wrong for us to be in Iraq.
so therefore...your logic doesnt follow for ME but im sure it does for everyone else here
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| When it rains and shines, it's just a state of mind | |
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| TheSmashedGuitar | Oct 24 2006, 11:34 AM Post #22 |
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Love Will Tear Us Apart, Again
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Ha, so should we instead turn this thread into an general Iraq discussion? |
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| heybulldog | Oct 24 2006, 11:36 AM Post #23 |
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Elmore James
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uh oh...that could turn nasty.
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| When it rains and shines, it's just a state of mind | |
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| TheSmashedGuitar | Oct 24 2006, 11:37 AM Post #24 |
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Love Will Tear Us Apart, Again
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How so? I promise not to get angry. Plus, we have mods to shut it down if it gets too heated. But I want to have a dicussion. I can finally show where I'm coming from instead of just saying "Bush sux sorz roflzcopter!" |
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| heybulldog | Oct 24 2006, 11:38 AM Post #25 |
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Elmore James
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go ahead! argue away my friend. |
| When it rains and shines, it's just a state of mind | |
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| TheSmashedGuitar | Oct 24 2006, 11:39 AM Post #26 |
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Love Will Tear Us Apart, Again
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I'm....I'm sorry?"
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| heybulldog | Oct 24 2006, 11:59 AM Post #27 |
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Elmore James
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LOL WHAT? i dont know what you thought i meant, but go ahead!! argue to your hearts content!
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| When it rains and shines, it's just a state of mind | |
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| TheSmashedGuitar | Oct 24 2006, 12:06 PM Post #28 |
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Love Will Tear Us Apart, Again
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Ok, point one; It's really not clear why we're in Iraq in the first place. First it was WMD's, but we haven't found any. This is because a) We haven't found them yet. a) They were shipped out of the country, so they're no longer in Iraq. c) There never were any. I vouch for option b or c. Why? I really don't trust our government, and they have lied to us many times before. (And I mean the government in general, not just the Bush administration.) I think their objective was to take out Saddam as an act of revenge for the first Gulf War, to obtain Oil and maintain another base of operations to better prepare ourselves to deal with Iran or Palestine. However, saying to Americans "We're going to war to overthrow a dictator and help the Iraqi people," America wouldn't buy it. If we were to do that, people would say "We should go around and overthrow every dsictator." That is of course, an insane task for America to do on its own and considering conflicting interests with countries like Saudi Arabia, we probbaly wouldn't do so. So, they either lied or depended on faulty evidence to persuade the American public to support them. Now, I jave no problem with us overthrowing Saddam, that was good, but we don't do anything about current situations like Darfur. Plus, we really didn't come in with a plan or enough military power, so we're having our fair share of prob;ems there. Rebuttal? |
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| ihateguitarists | Oct 24 2006, 12:13 PM Post #29 |
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v_v
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Not to mention, if we're helping them so much, why do more than half of them want us out of there. The Iraqi and the American people are tired of us being there, but we still have absolutely no exit strategy. |
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| heybulldog | Oct 24 2006, 01:58 PM Post #30 |
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Elmore James
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why would the Iraq war be an act of "revenge" for the first gulf war? that was an overwhelming and sweeping victory on our part. why would we NEED "revenge" from them. the only mistake made? we didnt take out Saddam THEN. If by revenge you mean....we are finishing the job, then yes. i agree. WMD-- see we know they had them. we KNOW. this is not just "oh Bush said they had them" type crap. They were used on the Kurds, and during the first gulf war. WHEN we invaded Iraq (mind you we waiting an AWFUL long time with all those damn sanctions beforehand) some MWD's were found (Scud missles, some small quantities of biological/chemical weapons, other weapons that were banned by the UN resolutions) Yes there were pre-war blunders on the part of UK/US intelligence, but i just want to know what the alternatives would be? more UN resolutions? more toothless rules and regulations with nothing to back them up? So, basically my point is, we know Saddam had/used WMD's in the past. The way i see it, intelligence failures made it seem like more of a problem than it was (but it was STILL a problem). They could very probably be in another country right now, given that the regime under Saddam had plenty of time to stash them. SOOOOO.... YES there were prewar blunders, but NO going into Iraq wasnt a mistake, and the current administration did not completely fabricate the justification for war. Plus, besides all that, i think that taking out Saddam is good for the US and the people of Iraq anyway. In the 90's he was killing and torturing political opposition and gassing thousands of Kurdish women and children....now he's sitting in a jail cell awaiting the noose. Iraq is unlike Darfur. With Darfur there is no opressive regime that is brutalizing its own people and threatening the security of other nations... Darfur is more or a war of all against all. so i dont really see how that fits in to the argument. I also dont really see how we "didnt come in with enough military power". i mean obviously this kind of warfare is going to be different that the likes of WWII. Since there is no clear enemy its not like there will be decisive victories. I think the invasion of Iraq showed a lot of military strength on our part, but of COURSE door to door fighting isnt going to be as glamourous and awe-inspiring... of course there are problems there, but not enough military power?? We are spending an awful lot and have plenty of troops over there. Better game plan needed maybe?? but not a lack of troops.... i know i'm EXTREMELY outnumbered here, and i'm going to get jumped on immediatly, but remember..these are my opinions, based on the research IVE done, and my view of the world. I'm obviously biased because I have lots of military personel in my family who are fighting there right now, but just be KIND with your criticisms...aka....dont make me cry
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| When it rains and shines, it's just a state of mind | |
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uh oh...that could turn nasty.
argue to your hearts content!
cry
6:25 AM Jul 11