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| Battle of the Brians.; Brian Jones vs Brian Wilson | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 14 2006, 06:35 AM (5,967 Views) | |
| Carpenter | Aug 26 2006, 08:49 PM Post #91 |
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Cause Between The Buttons sold and Pet Sounds really didn't as much. And The Beach Boys weren't competition. But there was a lot of Beatles vs. The Stones. |
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| Yankee8156 | Aug 26 2006, 08:55 PM Post #92 |
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Pet Sounds reached #2 in the UK.....Between The Buttons only hit #3. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| Carpenter | Aug 26 2006, 09:10 PM Post #93 |
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It went to number 2 in the US (making it go Gold in the sixties, while Pet Sounds didn't go gold til 2000 i think it was), and Ruby Tuesday and Let's Spend The Night Together reached #1. And a lot more records were being sold (and still are) in America than the UK. An album that went to #2 in the UK and #10 in the US (and wasn't there for very long) sold less than an album that went to #3 in the UK and #2 in the US. |
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| Yankee8156 | Aug 26 2006, 09:13 PM Post #94 |
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But wasn't the US Between The Buttons boosted with a big hit single that the UK version wasn't? Edit: Meaning that it wasn't the same album. Pet Sounds was the same exact album, second for second all around the world. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| Carpenter | Aug 26 2006, 09:19 PM Post #95 |
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Why the album sold more isn't the question at hand though, Dan. I'm not arguing that it's better than Pet Sounds, I'm simply saying that I can hear more BTB influence on Pepper than Pet Sounds influence, and pointing out that Pet Sounds (and The Beach Boys in general around the time) isn't and wasn't as commercially successful as BTB or The Stones were around the time, and that could've been a reason why McCartney always goes on about it. Haven't you ever told a bunch of people to go buy an album that you thought was great because it didn't sell as much as you thought it should've? |
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| Yankee8156 | Aug 26 2006, 09:25 PM Post #96 |
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Sorry if I got off the track about the album sales thing. But I still........surprise, surprise .....will have to disagree. McCartney and Martin's raving over Pet Sounds didn't really start until the much later years....well after the releases of Pet Sounds/Pepper/Buttons. Because of this, I don't think it was really in their minds that they should try to reveal Pet Sounds to the world.And there's no doubt that commerically, after the Stones arrived on the scene and The Beatles began to mature that the Stones were a bigger commercial rival to The Beatles than The Beach Boys were. I don't think, however, that the commercial rivalry necessarily means that The Stones were having a bigger impact on The Beach Boys. I wonder how long we'll be able to keep this up before someone quits
......certainly makes for a fun debate though.
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| Carpenter | Aug 26 2006, 09:31 PM Post #97 |
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I think the fact that Sgt. Pepper is being thrown around more than any other album in this topic shows that Jones is the winner. You guys are using Pet Sounds' supposed mega-influence on Pepper against the Stones, so it becomes Pet Sounds/Pepper against Jones' contributions, and that's not fair, cause I'm fairly certain most of Pepper would sound pretty much the same without Pet Sounds. At least all of John and George's contributions, and most of Paul's. In reality, Pet Sounds didn't influence Pepper musically a whole lot. It just sort of inspired McCartney to make (what he considered) a better album. And let us not forget, Pepper is not all McCartney. John co-wrote With A Little Help, wrote a part of Getting Better, wrote Lucy In The Sky, Good Morning, Mr. Kite (!), and of course most of A Day In the Life, and George wrote Within You Without You (and I didn't even count their instrumental contributions!). George was way too much into Indian music to give a shit about The Beach Boys (or any other band for that matter), and John wasn't too much into the modern music scene (though he did say that Paint It, Black was one of the greatest compositions of the 21st Century!). One of my favorite quotes by him was "Did Picasso walk into art galleries to see what the other artists were doing? No! So why should I care about the modern music scene?" |
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| The Revelator | Aug 26 2006, 09:32 PM Post #98 |
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i like anything Wilson did more than Jones, talent aside. pet sounds is marvelous |
| dirt, sweet, and filthy.... | |
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| Yankee8156 | Aug 26 2006, 09:40 PM Post #99 |
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Isn't the entire inspiration to create a better album than that a pretty big factor in how Pepper is? It could have sounded totally different if McCartney hadn't heard it. And there is plenty of evidence of Pet Sounds influencing the music of Sgt. Pepper.....not so much in John or George's work, but in Paul's work, which comprises the better portion of the album. It's in the music......the arrangements, the way the vocals are stacked, how orchestral work is used. The only reason it may seem that I'm throwing around Pet Sounds a lot is that I know it's a more familiar work that I can use that everyone will know. And the only reason I think the argument keeps coming back to The Beatles is because they're the only really well known group that combines the influences of The Beach Boys and The Rolling Stones. As I've said before, and Tom has said, comparing The Beach Boys and The Rolling Stones is comparing apples and oranges.....they've both influenced music in different ways (eg. no musician is going to credit a guitar riff to The Beach Boys, and no one's going to credit an elaborate harmony to The Rolling Stones), which is why this debate keeps going 'round in circles. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| ihateguitarists | Aug 26 2006, 09:40 PM Post #100 |
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Okay I just thought I'd add this: I have the June/July issue of Paste Magazine which lists best songwriters... Paste Reader's Choice 13.Brian Wilson 14.The Rolling Stones The Official List 7.Brian Wilson 12.The Rolling Stones |
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| Yankee8156 | Aug 26 2006, 09:42 PM Post #101 |
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Interesting....but I'd have to see their definition of songwriting, because if they make lyrics a big part of it, even I'd have to pick the Stones over Brian. But I'm guessing that's not too big a factor if that's how they've got it layed out. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| Carpenter | Aug 26 2006, 09:42 PM Post #102 |
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Yeah man, California Girls sure kicks the crap out of The Last Time! |
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| Yankee8156 | Aug 26 2006, 09:44 PM Post #103 |
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I think so.But it's too heavy for me to turn back to pettiness now. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| Carpenter | Aug 26 2006, 09:52 PM Post #104 |
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I wasn't trying to be mean, I was trying to point out the absurdity of saying that ANYTHING Wilson did is better than ANYTHING Jones did. I'm sure I like...say...God Only Knows more than at least ONE thing Jones did. And in reference to no one ever crediting elaborate harmonies to the Stones, listen to Ruby Tuesday. Mick, Keith, and Brian do some serious harmonizing. Oh and Sean, never heard of Paste magazine. I'm assuming it has more credibility than say, Rolling Stone magazine...right? |
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| Yankee8156 | Aug 26 2006, 09:57 PM Post #105 |
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Yeah, Rolling Stone is more credible, and I'd take their word over most magazines, though I remember reading (maybe on a Stones wiki?) that the magazine does get on its knees for The Rolling Stones at times.....but that's aside from the point. Yeah, The Rolling Stones have had their good harmonies, and by my earlier comment I'm not stating that they haven't, but in that area they don't touch The Beach Boys. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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.....will have to disagree. McCartney and Martin's raving over Pet Sounds didn't really start until the much later years....well after the releases of Pet Sounds/Pepper/Buttons. Because of this, I don't think it was really in their minds that they should try to reveal Pet Sounds to the world.
I wonder how long we'll be able to keep this up before someone quits
......certainly makes for a fun debate though.


I think so.
6:38 AM Jul 11