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| Battle of the Brians.; Brian Jones vs Brian Wilson | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 14 2006, 06:35 AM (5,969 Views) | |
| St. Thomas | Aug 25 2006, 05:27 PM Post #61 |
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i love katie
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there's a lot of weird new instrumentation from brian wilson in the album, too, though. not to mention the blend with symphonic sounds and such. |
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-thomas last.fm | |
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| Carpenter | Aug 25 2006, 05:32 PM Post #62 |
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I'm not arguing that, but do you think that anyone ever goes 'Right, I'm gonna add some harpsichord to this song like Wilson did in Pet Sounds'? Perhaps, but I have a feeling (remember, I'm waist-deep in the young band's music scene) that the number of people that add instruments to their songs thanks to Wilson/Pet Sounds is dwarfed by the amount of times someone has added an exotic instrument thanks to Jones. |
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| St. Thomas | Aug 25 2006, 05:36 PM Post #63 |
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i love katie
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pet sounds was more of an influence in the 60's. musicians everywhere back then were saying "right i'm gonna add some strings [or whatever] like brian wilson". remember, it wasn't that much influential for the fans (maybe in the UK) but the musicians (especially the most important ones) had an orgasm when they heard it (dylan, clapton, john/paul). i think the most aftermath could do for the music scene like that was with the exotic instruments jones picked up. otherwise, it's just a big leap with the same kind of stuff the stones had been working on before, only all originals and some different styles. |
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-thomas last.fm | |
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| Carpenter | Aug 25 2006, 05:37 PM Post #64 |
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Well, things change. Brian Jones has had a bigger long-term impact. |
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| St. Thomas | Aug 25 2006, 05:39 PM Post #65 |
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i love katie
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perhaps, but so far we can only go by what history has shown us.
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-thomas last.fm | |
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| Carpenter | Aug 25 2006, 05:49 PM Post #66 |
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Yeah, but you're only going by the history of the 60s. |
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| Yankee8156 | Aug 25 2006, 06:20 PM Post #67 |
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I prefer Pet Sounds over Aftermath. I don't have the US Version of Aftermath....but I don't know if that would make a difference. I will say that Aftermath is one of my favorite Rolling Stones albums, but the only album in the world that tops Pet Sounds for me is Revolver, and maybe, maybe Abbey Road. There isn't Pet Sounds influence on Within You Without You or A Day In The Life.....but the elaborate arrangements on Mr. Kite, Getting Better, and maybe to a lesser extent Lucy In The Sky, were descendents of the Pet Sounds style composition. The entire barnyard section of Good Morning is a nod to the Banana & Louie sequence on Pet Sounds, and possibly from an excerpt heard by Paul and John of "Barnyard," arranged after Pet Sounds. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| EBruchmann | Aug 25 2006, 06:22 PM Post #68 |
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Like a Rolling Stone...
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Okay everyone, this is a very long post, but I’ve taken the time to respond to all of your comments that pertain to something I’ve said.
Well, I admit you weren’t judging anyone by his or her death. It was simply a stupid remark. And as for the fact that I said Brian Jones was better because of his death, all I really meant was that Jones definitely fit the rockstar lifestyle, as opposed to Brian Douglas (though his middle name should be “Dick-less”) Wilson.
I disagree with that. It is comparing The Beach Boys (Wilson’s inferior band) against The Rolling Stones (Jones’ superior band). Sure Brian Wilson “*was* the Beach Boys” as you say, but he probably *was* with them “all night” as well. I mean, how many non-groupies would have wanted him? Okay, sure he was the reason for their success, but when the band sucks, I don’t even care how successful they are. I’m sure Wilson played the bass, I mean, he sure had experience with long wooden objects, hanging around his mama a lot. And who’s to say Brian Jones wasn’t the reason for the success of the Rolling Stones. Without Brian Jones, there wouldn’t be a Rolling Stones, not to mention how talented he was in shaping their songs and playing many instruments, as opposed to Brian Wilson, who sat there strumming the lone chord on his bass guitar all day. Sure Mick and Keith wrote more songs, but Brian barely got the credit he deserved. Carpenter already explained for example about “Paint It, Black”, and several other songs have been mentioned, but the list doesn’t end there. Besides, 14 songs are credited to being written by Nanker Phelge (a pseudonym indicating that all members of the group authored the song), right there proving Jones did something. But there’s more than that, See Wikipedia’s article on Brian Jones in the writing credits section. Even Keith admits that he himself didn’t write anything on “Ruby Tuseday”, but it was still credited as Jagger/Richards. And I agree with Carpenter in saying, as he already said, that I, too, would rather listen to the isolated Sitar track on “Paint It, Black” 20 times in a row than listen to Pet Sounds. It’s because Brian Jones had talent, and he was a rockstar of his day, while the Beach Boys made sissy, girly-man music aimed at pre-teen girls to listen to while they had make-believe tea parties. Listen to a classic rock radio station. How often do you hear the Beach Boys, howlin’ for mercy like alley cats? – almost never, but you’ll sure as hell hear a Stones song within an hour.
Sure Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys influence others (haven’t you heard of Gay Pride Parades?), and yeah, they are considered important as part of the popular music scene in the 60s, but so were tons of other bands, like Diana Ross and the Supremes, or Leslie Gore (not that I have anything against them), but does that make the Peachy Boys better than the Rolling Stones? And EVERYTHING counts on the poll, not just their musical abilities. Lifestyle and all that is a big part. How do you judge a person – by their music, or who they are? And lemme tell you, Brian Jones was (and even in the grave his legacy makes him continue to be) cooler than Brian Wilson, which is pretty sad, as Brian Wilson isn’t dead. I mean, saying that the Beach Boys are better than the Rolling Stones is like saying that the Monkees are better than the Beatles. Brian Wilson may have been the (tragically unfortunate) reason for the Bitch Boys, but Brian Jones was the reason for the Rolling Stones, who are considered to be the greatest rock band of all time, as well as also being the reason for the genre known as world music. I’m not saying I’m into world music, but still, Brian Jones invented it as a genre. But, I do think Brian Jones Presents the Pipes of Pan at Jajouka is an awesome album, even though it’s not my favourite kind of music. It’s quite psychedelic and a good listen. I’ll be honest and say I would never of heard that album if Brian Jones’ name wasn’t on it, and that’s precisely the reason that what he did was so good. Think of all of the people who purchased that album, not because they were big fans, but because it had Brian Jones’ name on it. They were exposed to a new type of music, thanks to the musical contributions of a Mr. Lewis Brian Hopkin Jones. So Brian needed Mick and Keith – isn’t that the reason they were in a band, rather than Brian Jones having a solo career? It’s all about teamwork, and contributing to make great music. It’s all about the appreciation, man (except when you’re talking about the Beach Boys). So Brian Wilson basically created Pet Sounds. Have you ever heard of a solo album? Same thing. The only thing your statement tells me is that Mike Love, Carl Wilson, Al Jardine, and Dennis Wilson were all too lazy to do anything themselves. Besides, if Wilson was the heart and soul of the band, why was he replaced with Bruce Johnson during touring? Then he quit the band. What the hell’s with that? I just listened to “Good Vibrations” and it’s nothing that special. I’d rather listen to Aftermath or the Stones’ 1966 live album Got Live If You Want It!, before suffering through that excuse for “rock” known as Pet Sounds. I know Glenn Miller is jazz you idiot. All I was saying was that he, like these so-called “Beach Boys” made popular music in their day, and had influence on the music scene, so you just as well may call Glenn Miller and his orchestra the greatest rock band, if that’s how you feel. I’m aware of Presley’s influence, and speak for yourself on what you think of it. Sure Elvis isn’t as good as others, but take his 1969 album From Elvis In Memphis, for example. It’s awesome, so don’t go dissing other artists, even if they’re not your thing.
“Good Vibrations” can suck the balls of the masterpiece “Paint It, Black”. I don’t care how good you think it is. Brian Jones was the leader until 1966. Just look at the album covers at who’s first in front, the last album like this being the compilation Big Hits (High Tide & Green Grass. Brian Jones was in the front and presented as the leader. I’m not saying that their R&B covers were better than the Jagger/Richards-penned originals, but that Brian Jones made great contributions, and more than he’s credited with.
I’m glad to hear that you’re a big fan. But as for Dick Wilson, let’s agree to disagree. I know that Aftermath wouldn’t have happened if the Rolling Stones were just Brian Jones and some band. It’s all about the teamwork.
Bull shit. Who cares about Pet Sounds, anyway? Not Brian Wilson. The only “pet sounds” he cares about is from his mom when she makes sounds as he pets her glandular penis. And why wouldn’t you vote? It’s like you’re too wishy-washy to make decisions or choose something. What a hypocrite you are! You fight for someone that you haven’t even voted for.
Nicely said. Very nicely said.
As I already said, I agree. “Paint It, Black” owns the entire album Pet Sounds, even if it’s just the sitar track.
You’re right. What Brian Jones’ talent, ability, productivity, and lifestyle can’t compare to that of Brian Wilson… because Jones is so far above him! As I said, Brian Jones owns that Wilson guy! But seriously, what’s so great that Brian Wilson did that makes him acknowledged in the rock scene? It’s more like the pop music scene.
I agree 100%. Ask most [“regular”] people and they’ve at least heard of Pepper. The same can’t be said for He Pets His Mama and Listens to Her Sounds, otherwise known as Pet Sounds. Even the name is sissy. The Rolling Stones named albums like Their Satanic Majesties Request, Beggars Banquet, Let It Bleed, and Through The Past, Darkly (all in the Brian Jones period). Now the Beach Boys, on the other hand, have albums with names like Wild Honey, Smiley Smile, and Friends - yeah, that sure sounds like a good rock album to me… What’s with the cover? A group of men, surrounded by sheep and goats. That sure says something about the sexual preference of the Beach Boys… Now I understand why Bruce Johnson had to replace Wilson – Brian Wilson was busy with “other things”.
Definitely. Brian Jones practically created the lavish rockstar lifestyle. And as for bands named after him – totally. Look at The Brian Jonestown Massacre – their logo is a picture of Jones’ head. Plus, they honoured the Stones by making an album called Their Satanic Majesties’ Second Request, which was influenced and inspired greatly by the great instrumentation and variety of instruments on Their Satanic Majesties Request. In fact, the song “Gomper” on that album should be credited partly to Brian Jones. He contributed so much to Satanic Majesties.
Yeah, but how could he be a good musician and influence so many if he didn’t do all that stuff. You just envy him because he lived the man’s dream, while you just live the man’s wet dream!
Yeah, I seriously did show you pictures of Brian Wilson to show you what a dink he is. In the music business, it’s not just all about the music, but also looks and fashion. Brian Jones had it all. Look at the way he dressed – that was rockstar clothing. Then you see Brian Wilson in his tucked-in little button-shirt and dress pants. Looks more to me like a choir-boy than an alleged “rocker”. Haven’t you ever heard that song “The Video Killed The Radio Star”? It’s all about that. Why do you think the Rolling Stones are waaaaayyy more popular than the Beach Boys? The answer is because of their music.
Well, in all fairness, I am in Junior High, but you’re right – it was inexcusable behaviour. I admit Brian Wilson has made some small contributions to the music world, but that doesn’t mean Brian Jones doesn’t own him!
No, the Rolling Stones didn’t influence Pepper – instead they copied it with Their Satanic Majesties Request. They knew a good thing when they saw it so they took a similar attempt. It doesn’t make them terrible. Satanic Majesties is a great album, and just because they copied the Beatles, it doesn’t mean they’re not good artists.
I am very well aware that Stoned is an inaccurate representation of the life of Brian Jones. I did not suggest that anyone he watch it, but just the preview, to get an idea of Brian Jones’ life and his great achievements.
I’ll do that… eventually. The Beach Boys isn’t really terrible music, but right now I’m working on getting The Rolling Stones, Beatles, and The Who catalogues on CD.
I agree. There’s no doubt about that. A very nice list you made, Carpenter. It really sums up Brian Jones’ achievements. That alone is enough to prove that Jones is better than Wilson, and then for it to be topped of with the Bill Wyman statement. Bill Wyman was in the band - he would know.
Why shouldn’t we all trash Wilson? There is a logical reason. It’s the fact that his music sucks and that he has a thing for sheep. What’s so illogical about my argument? I’ve proved several times that Brian Jones owns that idiot Brian Wilson.
Yeah, that’s right, except you see it the wrong way!
Sorry about the dick comments. I took things way too far. Brian Wilson did some great things for music. The only thing is, when compared to Brian Jones, it seems like nothing, because Jones owns that Wilson dick! Drummerboy’s chart sums it up all the way:
On that chart, the same goes for dick size. Except for Brian Wilson, the numbers are negative. Well, after all that I’ve said, surely you can now understand that Brian Jones is way better than Brian Wilson. |
Genius at work.![]() “My greatest desire always was to have a mind-blowing sexual experience..." BRIAN JONES (1942-1969)
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| Yankee8156 | Aug 25 2006, 06:25 PM Post #69 |
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I think the reason for that is because The Beach Boys have been deemed "un-cool" and unhip because of the subject matter of their (earlier) songs. I'll be the first to admit that I'd think they were a tremendous cornball group if I didn't get past the awful stereotype they've been burdened with. Because commercials use songs like "Fun, Fun, Fun," "409" and "Surfin USA" over and over again, today's most current musicians and even the general youth think that's all the group is. Therefore, they never get the chance to look beyond the stereotype and appreciate all the things that made the group great and influential. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| Yankee8156 | Aug 25 2006, 06:32 PM Post #70 |
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SmokeyBandit--- don't bother replying in this thread anymore. The more and more you post, the more ignorant and dumb you are making yourself look. I'd much rather hold a logical debate over this topic with someone reasonable like Carpenter. Even when you're trying to be logical, you can't help but refrain from stupid insults. You wanna call Brian Wilson gay? How about this, taken from the NY Times regarding Jones and the "Stoned" movie: "The dramatic potential in the story of a working-class married bloke hired by a dissipated, foppish rock star exploring androgyny and bisexuality is squandered;" Yeah, that's right.....bisexuality....which implies some of the stuff you're claiming Wilson to be indulgent of, and I bet you don't have a NY Times article to back it up. Glad to know you're thinking about their dicks too. For everyone else, I'm sorry you have to deal with me trying to shut SmokeyBandit up, but I'm sure you see where I'm coming from. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| EBruchmann | Aug 25 2006, 06:37 PM Post #71 |
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Like a Rolling Stone...
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Fine, I'll stop posting in this thread. But I have one question for you, Yankee - why are you so interested in looking up articles about bisexual men? |
Genius at work.![]() “My greatest desire always was to have a mind-blowing sexual experience..." BRIAN JONES (1942-1969)
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| St. Thomas | Aug 25 2006, 06:39 PM Post #72 |
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i love katie
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LOL well i gotta say you certainly took a lot of time there, smokeandband-it. so cheers! but the only thing i got out of that was that long post was that brian jones was gay. did i miss something? |
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-thomas last.fm | |
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| Yankee8156 | Aug 25 2006, 06:41 PM Post #73 |
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I was looking up an article about that bogus movie you were referring to. Thanks for asking. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| EBruchmann | Aug 25 2006, 06:42 PM Post #74 |
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Like a Rolling Stone...
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What??? Where did I say that Brian Jones was gay? Or are you being sarcastic? lol |
Genius at work.![]() “My greatest desire always was to have a mind-blowing sexual experience..." BRIAN JONES (1942-1969)
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| St. Thomas | Aug 25 2006, 07:02 PM Post #75 |
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i love katie
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well come on it's sort of obvious. "ruby tuesday"? where are we, a fucking little boy's fifth birthday party? (probably, all those stones had a little pedophile thing going on) *of course* he wrote that kind of song. and of course he didn't sing it or ask for credit. i wouldn't want my name on such a hideous thing either (*coughsatanicmajestiesrequestcough*)! i bet he nanked his phelge to it all night long though (a pseudonym meaning jerk-off, which is what all those early stones instrumentals that jones "contributed" to were - "hey we can't think of anything but we want songwriting credits, so let's do a 12-bar blues again for the 10th time!") i can do it too, man. yeah, i've heard it all, and i've made a pretty fucking clear conclusion, dude. go work on your who, beatles, and stones, then gain some kind of knowledge about the rock music scene. i like it all, i love the stones, i love the beach boys, and this poll is fucking ridiculous, by the way. they're two completely different people with completely different images, and there's nothing objective about this. both influential as fuck and both important. so i don't know. you won't find any answers. which i why i didn't vote, you sick fuck.
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-thomas last.fm | |
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