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| Battle of the Brians.; Brian Jones vs Brian Wilson | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 14 2006, 06:35 AM (5,949 Views) | |
| Kira | Nov 2 2006, 12:38 PM Post #361 |
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Hate me, do it and do it again.
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I don't even think The Beach Boys should be in the Top 15 of importance. A lot of artists make a few good singles and the good album every now and then, I don't see why they would be a lot higher than most of the more major groups. |
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| Kira | Nov 2 2006, 12:38 PM Post #362 |
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Hate me, do it and do it again.
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lawl, yeah basically.
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| Yankee8156 | Nov 2 2006, 12:42 PM Post #363 |
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Loretta
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I don't think it's that far out there. George Martin practically puts them ahead of The Beatles. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| St. Thomas | Nov 2 2006, 12:45 PM Post #364 |
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i love katie
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exactly, i could see that. and the way i see it, this guy brian wilson almost single-handedly brought the group to that level of importance in about 8 years or so. because counting anything they did after the very early 70's wouldn't matter in terms of their impact. wilson did all of the writing and arranging, which is how the beach boys were influential and popular. so i see what wilson did as being even more than what brian jones did, because even though jones's group was more influential and important for rock music, he was part of a 3-person triumvirate of power for the group, and after about 1964, he wasn't even in the driver's seat anymore, his power diminishing to very low proportions by 1968, when the stones *really* found their true niche and made the most impact. so his group was more important, but comparatively, he couldn't have brought them to "top 10 or 15" status alone, which is what wilson did pretty much. that's why i voted for him. that and songwriting, which i think is very important in my mind. |
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-thomas last.fm | |
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| Yankee8156 | Nov 2 2006, 12:47 PM Post #365 |
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Loretta
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They were a major group. The problem is no one wants to recognize that there were major acts before The Beatles. They were the biggest group in the world before The Beatles. When everyone chooses to begin their musical history after 1964, with the exception of the occasional reference to Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly or Elvis, they will never get the recognition they deserve. I gather maybe two people here have actually listened to The Beach Boys' albums. You're not putting them in the top fifteen, but I guarantee you haven't actually listened to their music. Pet Sounds has become their greatest shortcoming in the eyes of Beach Boys detractors, because since it is the only album that has acheived a modern mainstream popularity, people assume it's their only good album and their only high point. That's not true. Until The Beatles arrived, they were pretty much The Beatles in terms of both popularity and creativity. Just about everbody's mindset here tips the balance way in favor of music from the late '60s on, meaning that everything before it is pretty much dismissed. I think I'm done with this topic until people actually listen to the Beach Boys, because otherwise I can't make an argument. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| Carpenter | Nov 2 2006, 12:49 PM Post #366 |
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but he was crucial in bringing them to the top 5 (RS mag says they're #4, VH1 says they're #2) of mosts lists. |
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| Carpenter | Nov 2 2006, 12:51 PM Post #367 |
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But then it's subjective. I mean, let's say we listen to The Beach Boys entire discography and say it's better than sex and they're the greatest group ever and whatnot, its's gonna only be our opinion and not one that's recognized by the rock music community in general. |
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| St. Thomas | Nov 2 2006, 12:52 PM Post #368 |
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i love katie
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right, ok, but imagine this: if mick jagger and keith richards and the rest were basically songwriting-retarded. all they could do was play their instruments (and only adequately, at that). brian jones would have to arrange all of their hits and write all of their songs himself. do you still think he could have brought them to the influence and popularity that the beach boys gained in about 6-8 years, and left that legendary status that the beach boys have today? that's what i'm saying. he was crucial in the beginning, but he wasn't the band in all but playing the instruments. |
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-thomas last.fm | |
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| Yankee8156 | Nov 2 2006, 12:54 PM Post #369 |
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Loretta
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If we are going by what the rock community in general says, then I think Wilson is the victor. You can't argue that he gets more recognition than Jones from most music pundits. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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| Carpenter | Nov 2 2006, 12:56 PM Post #370 |
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that's true, but the 'Wilson did everything' argument is starting to wear thin. okay, he did everything and Jones only contributed (though I still think his contributions were huge up to 69) and I know it impresses you more for one person to make an okay album all by himself than for three people to make an amazing one together, but c'mon. The Beach Boys don't hold a candle to The Stones so even if Wilson DID do it all together it doesn't make him all that much better. |
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| St. Thomas | Nov 2 2006, 01:01 PM Post #371 |
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i love katie
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totally subjective then. i mean i do think pet sounds is astounding, but it's subjective, so it holds more importance for me. i wouldn't think wilson was that great if the beach boys weren't considered like they are today. again, i'm still saying i love brian jones, but i consider wilson's achievements and all to be more today, i guess. and most of that has to do with him doing things on his own, in the face of adversity. i mean, wilson was in the face of adversity from bandmates too (like jones with mick and keith), but he still was able to get pet sounds out there before his collapse and fall, you know? |
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-thomas last.fm | |
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| Carpenter | Nov 2 2006, 01:02 PM Post #372 |
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But that's because he was the main man in the beach boys, while Brian Jones was third place in The Stones by 1968. Since the question in this topic is so ambiguous (what? 'better'?), this is what I asked myself: If Brian Jones hadn't started The Rolling Stones, what would music be like? and If Brian Wilson hadn't started The Beach Boys, what would music be like? I realized that the answer I came up with for the first question horrified me more than the answer for the second question. And that's why I voted for Brian Jones. Phil Spector-level production, amazing barber shop singing group-type harmonies, and animal noises considered. |
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| Carpenter | Nov 2 2006, 01:04 PM Post #373 |
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We get it Tom, you love Brian too. Judging by the number of times you've said that as a disclaimer in you posts, I think you're gonna have to go to confession. =D |
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| St. Thomas | Nov 2 2006, 01:09 PM Post #374 |
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i love katie
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but you're using the term "better" right? so you have to delve into what they did after they started their respective bands. i can start a band today, quit the next day, and the band goes on to become the next beatles. doesn't mean i'm better than brian jones. on the contrary, i'm definitely not. so "if brian jones didn't do what he did in the rolling stones, what would rock music be like today?" or "if brian wilson didn't do what he did in the beach boys, what would rock music be like today?" and it's not what the stones or the beach boys did, it's what he himself did, because we're comparing two individuals here. so you have to look at the aspects of what each individual member contributed to the band and to rock music. |
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-thomas last.fm | |
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| Yankee8156 | Nov 2 2006, 01:15 PM Post #375 |
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Loretta
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How about the quality of music Wilson was able to turn out while having the mental state of a 6-year-old? He might not have been consistent, and it's certainly not as recognized, but there are some real gems in there from 1967-1977.....so I guess Wilson was making good music before Jones, and making good music after Jones. |
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My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly) "George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney | |
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6:38 AM Jul 11