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Battle of the Brians.; Brian Jones vs Brian Wilson
Topic Started: Apr 14 2006, 06:35 AM (5,955 Views)
Yankee8156
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Loretta
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Oct 12 2006, 04:43 PM
I seriously doubt that. Beyond Nicky Hopkins on keyboards, no studio musicians would've been needed. If you think that The Stones never achieved a high level of musicianship or musical virtuosity with Brian in the band, you're not listening to Their Satanic Majesties close enough. 2000 Light Years From Home (which isn't half as good without Brian's string part; seriously: listen to it without the right channel) outdoes The Beach Boys highest production.

Besides, The Rolling Stones didn't need to set a goal to match Phil Spector; by the time they got to America and recorded England's Newest Hitmakers, they had him under their thumbs (he loved them, thought they were great, played on a couple songs and co-wrote one with them). They thought his sweet bubble gum pop songs were a bit of a joke, as 5 hard-boiled R&B avatars from England would.


I think you've misinterpreted my statement. Brian Wilson's main competition (in his mind) was to match, and better, the production of Phil Spector. That just isn't the Rolling Stones game. Had they chosen, for some reason, to be a band that focused on furthering the produced sound of a record, and make developments in that field in the way Spector did, they would have had to have hired studio musicians if not for the simple fact that the whole recording process has all of those musicians playing at once, and it would be physically impossible for even Brian Jones to do that, no matter how talented he is. I've never seen anybody say that Brian Jones was one of the greatest drummers, bassists, etc. in music.....that's who Brian Wilson was after. He didn't hire studio musicians because he or his band was incapable of producing good sounding music. For that reason, he wouldn't have hired some ordinary studio musician for hire. He went after the absolute best in the industry because he knew that they were capable of producing the sound he wanted to hear.

No studio musicians would've been needed to produce Stones albums the way they were made, but if the Stones were looking to make the kind of albums the Beach Boys made (whether those albums are better or worse than Stones albums has no influence on this at all), they would have had to hire studio musicians.

....Especially when your normal band is out touring in Japan.

So, my argument isn't about the musicianship of Jones or the Stones, but the fact that they were not the type of musicians that you would use for Pet Sounds or Good Vibrations....it's not their style. The style of music Wilson was producing required studio musicians. If the Stones had made an album like Pet Sounds (and I'm talking about production style here, nothing regarding whether the album is good or bad), they would have required studio musicians, or else it wouldn't sound that way. Just like you wouldn't use Frank Sinatra as a back-up vocalist for a Gladys Knight song.

As for The Rolling Stones not needing to set a goal to match Spector, that's simply because none of the Rolling Stones had taken the reigns and embraced the producing aspect of a record. If the Stones had chosen to be the best production artists around, they would have set their sights on Spector, or more likely by the time they came around, Brian Wilson. Wilson wasn't competing with the lyrics of Spector's songs, but the way the music was recorded and then presented to the listener, and the depth acheived in a piece of music through a mono recording.
My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly)

"George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney
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Carpenter
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Your entire post is further evidence that we're comparing two very different bands and very different people.

But my point was that Brian Jones was the better musician. If you guys want to go on about how great of a songwriter Wilson was (which I don't entirely agree with) and how great of a producer he was (which is probably true), I think it's only right to give Brian some credit for being an amazing musician.

I thought I'd heard him play everything he could, but recently I got the UK Between The Buttons and heard him on accordion (record supposedly an hour or so after he picked up the instrument for the first time) on the beautful song Back Street Girl.
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Yankee8156
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Oct 14 2006, 12:55 AM
Your entire post is further evidence that we're comparing two very different bands and very different people.

I never said we weren't.
My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly)

"George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney
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Carpenter
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Yankee8156
Oct 14 2006, 01:05 AM
Carpenter
Oct 14 2006, 12:55 AM
Your entire post is further evidence that we're comparing two very different bands and very different people.

I never said we weren't.

I never said you did!
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Yankee8156
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Oct 14 2006, 01:06 AM
Yankee8156
Oct 14 2006, 01:05 AM
Carpenter
Oct 14 2006, 12:55 AM
Your entire post is further evidence that we're comparing two very different bands and very different people.

I never said we weren't.

I never said you did!

:medieval:
My Beatles Trading Post (Updated Regularly)

"George had just come off tour, I'd flown in specially from England, Ringo had flown in specially, too, I think, and John wouldn't show up! He wouldn't come from across the park! George got on the phone, yelled, 'Take those fucking shades off and come over here, you!' John still wouldn't come over. He had a balloon delivered with a sign saying, LISTEN TO THIS BALLOON. It was all quite far out." -Paul McCartney
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Carpenter
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:lol:
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St. Thomas
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no doubt brian jones was the better instrumentalist.
-thomas

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Thaddeus
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NorwegianWood65
Oct 14 2006, 11:50 AM
no doubt brian jones was the better instrumentalist.

But there's no doubt Wilson was the better song writer :estoycansado:
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TheSmashedGuitar
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Why are we still havin this arguement? Who gives a shit? Both were awesome in their own ways. People have different opinions, we won't convince anyone here.

So um...yea. This should be dead, ha.

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ihateguitarists
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Bungalow Bill
Oct 14 2006, 08:19 AM
NorwegianWood65
Oct 14 2006, 11:50 AM
no doubt brian jones was the better instrumentalist.

But there's no doubt Wilson was the better song writer :estoycansado:

We agree on stuff. :cigar:
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St. Thomas
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i love katie
TheSmashedGuitar
Oct 14 2006, 12:22 PM
Why are we still havin this arguement? Who gives a shit? Both were awesome in their own ways. People have different opinions, we won't convince anyone here.

So um...yea. This should be dead, ha.

It's fun to discuss.
-thomas

last.fm
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Drummerboy
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The drugs don't work...
Yankee8156
Oct 14 2006, 03:35 AM
Carpenter
Oct 14 2006, 01:06 AM
Yankee8156
Oct 14 2006, 01:05 AM
Carpenter
Oct 14 2006, 12:55 AM
Your entire post is further evidence that we're comparing two very different bands and very different people.

I never said we weren't.

I never said you did!

:medieval:

That's the first time I've seen that smiley being used.

Two points for Yankee8156! :clap:
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Drummerboy
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The drugs don't work...
TheSmashedGuitar
Oct 14 2006, 12:22 PM
Why are we still havin this arguement? Who gives a shit? Both were awesome in their own ways. People have different opinions, we won't convince anyone here.

So um...yea. This should be dead, ha.

I know, right?

I mean, it's over. The poll says Wilson won, and I don't think it will change (unless Mike brings people from the RS forum).

So the poll says Wilson won, and even though it's wrong, that's what the results are. Even if you change peoples minds, they can't change their vote.
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MANG...Guy :cigar:
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Carpenter
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If you're gonna take the 'who gives a shit' stance, then life becomes meaningless. It's nice to have discussions and friendly arguments and debates, but it probably isn't 'important'. But what is? We all die anyway.
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TheSmashedGuitar
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Love Will Tear Us Apart, Again
Yea it's cool to argue but it's been 19 fucking pages ha. :cigar:

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