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| Tonights Scores; 7th November 2009 | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 7 2009, 08:34 PM (2,708 Views) | |
| Les | Nov 7 2009, 10:52 PM Post #51 |
All-Star
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Thought sharks played well S a team in the first Quarter and was expecting a 30 point game at the end. Tap made a difference in the paint and Patton ran the floor well. Don't think anyone really stood out for Sharks as I said played as team as did Eagles. If you remember Sharks where the only team to beat us twice at the Arena. It's going to be a long good season with teams taking points off one another. Gorman didn't play Gor |
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| kpemberton | Nov 7 2009, 10:59 PM Post #52 |
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Rookie
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Tack went to hospital with an eye injury, didn't play many minutes. Riders collapsed in 2nd quarter then realised there was another 20 minutes to play. Brilliant half by the team with special mentions to Windless who rolled back the years, Wierzbicki at both ends and Aaron Westbrooks playing tough D. Revenge is sweet. Semis here we come. |
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| dave f | Nov 7 2009, 11:24 PM Post #53 |
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All-Star
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eagles sharks report (here you go sharkball) Weird game which Sharks dominated for about 32 minutes but still came perilously close to losing. The first half was pretty much utter sharks domination. Eagles turned the ball over in the post and were beaten on hustle plays and offensive rebounds and loose balls and basically everything. Sharks were led by tap who played far better than in the last game a couple of weeks ago. He had 19 and 12 in the game but importantly was in rhythm and under control throughout. Gorman did not play. It was indicative of Fabs dissatisfaction with his main 6 that Aaron Nielsen was in the game with 2 to go in the first quarter (made a nice j on the buzzer) and Jamie Glen played much of the second quarter. At one stage in the second quarter the lead was 18 but the eagles managed to whittle it down by going to a zone. Mike Cook was able to get his shot at will (although not necessarily to make it) and the sharks had 49 on the buzzer with every guy having contributed. The eagles however were reliant on a late spurt from Charles Smith and were hampered by 3 fouls on Joe Chapman. The third quarter was like a parallel universe. Atiba got two early fouls and sat down with 4 : the eagles used Jackson to harry Cook everywhere and the sharks discombobulated amongst a sea of turnovers. At the other end the eagles rained 3s with Smith, Bridge, chapman and Jackson all connecting. A 3rd quarter whereby the sharks were held to 12 points (half of them coming from late 3s from Patton who was beginning to assert himself) and teh eagles had 28. make no mistake though it was about the increase in intensity and energy at the defensive end : the question was could the eagles sustain it. Answer (sadly!) was no. With Lyons back on court Sharks scored the 1st seven points of the 4th and the game became a nip and tuck battle and was genuinely in the balance. Charles continued to score inside and Cook contined to look for his mid range jump shot. When Chapman made a runner to put eagles up by 1 with 3 to go it looked like they might just hang on. However a tough 3 by cauthorn with two to go (one of his two baskets on the night) put the sharks into a lead which they were not destined to give up. Eagles werent helped by 3 missed lynard stewart foul shots and a roger harrison travel call after forcing a turnover with 40 seconds left. But in reality Sharks just had a little too much leeway and eagles not quite enough energy to get over the hunp. Players Eagles : Jackson : At this best when playing pesky defence on cook in the third. Unfortunately that meant he could not be guarding Patton and he made a couple of tough late threes to keep it close. Offensively a little indecisive at times. Chapman 15 points : hampered by fouls but helpes key the eagles thrid quarter run with some aggressive offence. Bridgey : Some tough moves to the hoop but never looked particularly comfortable. Darius : Nowhere near as effective against Tap as he had been 2 weeks ago in sheffield Lynard : tentative in the first half, far more aggressive in the second charles : Still able to score at will at times, cold early but kept eagles in it at times Aaron and jamie : Did nothing wrong at all : jamie played in the 3rd quarter run and provided good energy. Sheffield Patton 17 points : Totally effective when his feet were set, ineffective when they werent! Cook 36 points (11/23 from field, 1/6 threes, 11/14 foul shots) : The stat which killed the eagles was the foul shots. He clearly has the capability to get his own mid range shot whenever he wants to but that said is a decent but not fantastic shooter. The sharks have no other player who can really create his own shot though so his skill set is totally necessary within their concept. Eagles really missed not having Fab to harry him. Lyons : 11 points, 5 boards : the key to the game : defensively excellent as ever and when he sat down the sharks offence simply collapsed. Did to the eagles what Fab has done to so many teams over the last few years. cauthorn : 5 points : one big 3 , decent hustle, smart play, typical todd. Dont think he can keep playing 30 mins plus a game though. Tap : 19 and 12 : excellent : again far better than 2 weeks ago. Scored in a variety of ways and won the inside battle. bench Lawson : Not really a factor (4 points). Anderson : quick foul and sat down again. Overall the 2 game series is 1-1 which means that both teams are going into jan and feb with everything up for grabs. I do think injuries will dictate a lot in the BBL this season and with neither team being particularly deep the team with the fewest key injuries may come out on top. I would fear for sheffield if either cook or lyons went down just as things get so much harder for eagles when fab goes down and for Mk if EJ went down. Overall sharks deserved this one just as eagles deserved the last one. But I would expect these teams to be playing each other in bigger games by the end of the season. The stat about the eagles at home is strange. The only team to win at the arena since September 29 2007 (when we lost to Brian Dux and the Heat) is the Sharks. And they have done it 3 times whilst the eagles have won 46 consecitive home games against other teams! Edited by dave f, Nov 7 2009, 11:29 PM.
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| Sharkball | Nov 8 2009, 12:18 AM Post #54 |
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Bench Player
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Cheers for the detailed report DaveF and unbiased reflections. Just a couple of points: TC and his mins; I actually think he would be fine with the mins as he is fitter now than he has been at any time in the last 3 or 4 years; as is training regularly etc but think he will be more effective when Gorman is finally fully fit and TC can cut his mins down to 20ish. As for Cook I think he is a little streaky but I still feel he is one of the more talented players we have seen in this league in the last few years. He can create his own shot in a variety of ways and added that he gets to the line a lot due to his quickness, first step and leaping ability he will always score a lot of points. I think Eagles started up and down when Fab was made coach all those years ago and it seems to have been the same with Lyons with steady improvements. It has been a pleasing and surprising start for the Sharks. The Sharks look like they were right to stick with him and let him develop. They must have seen something in the same way the Eagles did with Fab. |
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| dave f | Nov 8 2009, 12:46 AM Post #55 |
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All-Star
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TC I think has always been fit : but I am not sure if he is as quick at the ripe age of 38. That makes him more susceptible to foul trouble and I do think he needs to be part of a 7 man rotation not a six. There are obvious comparison points between Fab and Atiba : the main one is that for as long as they have been in the league they have 2 of the top defensive players (in fact probably the 2 top players). That has to impact upon their coaching mindset. |
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| retsek | Nov 8 2009, 01:42 AM Post #56 |
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Global Moderator
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Never a doubt in my mind we would win this one, I'm just surprised it was as close as it ended up being. Obviously yet another oustanding game from Cook, without a doubt one of the best perimeter players this league has seen in a good while. Fab obviously couldn't stop him when we played you at home hense him leading the scoring, so don't try and make out that would have made any difference. "The sharks have no other player who can really create his own shot though" Garbage, Tap in the post and Ryan from the perimeter are both perfectly capable of creating their own shots. Hopefully that game has taken everything out of you, and the Jets will play a LOT better then they played against us on Friday and knock you out of the cup making it a thoroughly good weekend! 
Edited by retsek, Nov 8 2009, 01:47 AM.
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| "Good offense will ALWAYS beat good defence" - George Gervin | |
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| dave f | Nov 8 2009, 02:04 AM Post #57 |
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All-Star
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nice to hear from you note you didnt have the bottle to post anything for a week after you lost the first game. I find your enmity and bitterness somewhat pathetic. Tap got the ball once in the post all night and Pattons shots were off screens and offensive boards. Cook was 10/27 in the first game and we kept him off the line. Tonight without Fab we could not keep him off the line, Sharks won tonight, credit where credit is due. (and I think I have given such credit in the report above which was aimed of course at reasonable sharks fans like sharkball who asked for some information). Incidentally its the ability to give such credit which seems to separate us. |
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| retsek | Nov 8 2009, 02:13 AM Post #58 |
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Global Moderator
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I've not been posting much these days anyway, just my weekly predictions. I save my posts for glorious days like these  10/27 you say? 13/22 from inside the arc says that actual stats rather then your fictious ones, and he got to the line 7 times (admitedly not the astonishing 14 he managed tonight), so yes Fab can't stop him. Oh I guess I can't have been looking right every time I see Patton beat someone off the dribble and pull up for a jumper, silly silly me  Don't worry though, signing another point guard in time for the next time we meet will definately solve your problems.... Edited by retsek, Nov 8 2009, 02:18 AM.
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| "Good offense will ALWAYS beat good defence" - George Gervin | |
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| Maravich | Nov 8 2009, 08:23 AM Post #59 |
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Rookie
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The difference between games 1 & 2 is mike actually got the calls he deserves for his willingness to take it to the basket. Something he didn't get at Mk! In fact it's very difficult to stop him legitimately on When he gets inside on the drive. I predict he will get more protection as the season moves on and rightly so. |
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| SEB | Nov 8 2009, 10:54 AM Post #60 |
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Sixth Man
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At risk of pouring fuel on the fire... Retsek, why don't you like Newcastle so much? It's obviously well known by everyone else on here, just wondered if I could be let in on the secret? Thanks |
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| Sharkball | Nov 8 2009, 01:42 PM Post #61 |
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Bench Player
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I must say that at the Sharks-Eagles game a few weeks ago; that the notion that Flournoy smothered Cook whilst tonight due to him not playing Cook had free reign is way out I am afraid. Flournoy struggled as much as Chapman (who simply is not at same level as Cook); as they both took it in turns guarding him at the EIS but Cook could not do it all alone and the rest of the Sharks were pretty awful on that night helped by good Eagles D on the rest of the Sharks as Newcastle easily won the game. Did you go the EIS Dave incidentally for the first game? Of course as I was not there last night but it seems that Chapman struggled as much as he did in the first game against Cook unless they took it in turns guaring him? I do agree with DaveF in that if teams take Cook out of the game then Sharks do not have many players that can create own shot and with Patton relying mainly on stand alone three's, Lyons, Toney and TC getting garbage points mostly with little isolation being set up for them. Mind yoou this shows why Sharks are doing better as they are playing better team ball and not having too much 1 to 1 play outside of Cook who is capable of beating his defender most games. Last few years Sharks players have tried to go one on one and failed where as this year they are moving the ball better and seeing the results. |
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| reformed character | Nov 8 2009, 01:52 PM Post #62 |
Rookie
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I'm afraid Cook looking to jump into players is not my idea of a great offensive game, Refs will be looking at him and actually he will sucker refs in less not more! and I still think he takes too many shots for his points |
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| Sharkball | Nov 8 2009, 02:19 PM Post #63 |
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Bench Player
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'I'm afraid Cook looking to jump into players is not my idea of a great offensive game, Refs will be looking at him and actually he will sucker refs in less not more! and I still think he takes too many shots for his points' Surely the idea to get to the line is to initiate contact with your opponent by taking the ball towards the basket. The fact he has shot more free throws than anyonein the league; Cook going to the line for 81 free throws (made 56 for 69% which is not that great admittedly!) ; up to this weekend; indicates he is either very good at fooling referees or excellent at drawing contact. As for taking too many shots for his points; maybe but at the moment he is 105/204 for 2ptFG% which is actually over 50%. He lets himself down with his 3 point shooting 10/41 for 24%. However, the criticism of Cook so far from certain sources seems a little bewildering. The Sharks are top of the league; through in the Cup and he is leading the league in scoring. He is by no means perfect but is one of the top 5 players in the league and is an MVP contender so far. Edited by Sharkball, Nov 8 2009, 02:22 PM.
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| dave f | Nov 8 2009, 02:24 PM Post #64 |
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All-Star
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sharkball I actually watched a video of that game and watched it twice. Dont have it now though so cant check. Noting Fab only played 18 mins (it was the week after his heavy fall at guildford) it may not have been the best sample size. Going onto the BBL live play by play for the game I have Cook at 6/15 when Fab was in the game (meaning he was 7/12 when he wasnt) : although obviously it does not mean he was guarding him every time down. Its not about smothering a player as good as cook, more about increasing his level of difficulty on shots. I am in no way saying anyone is going to stop Mike Cook, but he is a volume shooter which means that percentages are the key. Hold him to 12/35 or 10/27 and you win, let him go off for 13/23 and you lose, the margins are that small. It was noticeable that he had 32 points on only 17 shots on friday night and with those numbers sharks are unbeatable. Eagles rotated Bridge and Chapman on him ineffectively in the first half yesterday until Fab was forced to put Reggie on him for the third. This extra quickness hampered him and sparked the eagles 3rd quarter run. Unfortunately Jacksons quickness was also required to chase Patton off screens and at the end of the third and beginning of 4th when Sharks were rocking they were able to get Patton a couple of clear looks with him shorn of Jackson. In reality Sharks victory came down not to cooks 36 but to Toney and Patton going for 19 and 17 and the team 21/26 from the line. Without the complementary scorers I dont think Sharks can beat the top teams. The key is to turn Cook into a pure scorer, limiting his assists so the others end up standing around and watching him. It really is an interesting concept that the Sharks have going. It is almost unique in the ego driven world of pro basketball for 6 guys to be so willing to defer to one without cracks appearing. But from last year I know Tap is not ego based and TC is too long in the tooth. Patton probably enjoys not being the oppositions no1 focus and Atiba as the coach has to be all about the win. That just leaves Gorman who hasnt really played and Perry who is a complementary guy anyway. Which I suppose is why its working. and seb, unfortunately retsek only answers the questions he wants to. none of us have any idea where his enmity comes from, we can only therefore surmise he is somewhat envious of the 11-0 trophy count in the last 5 years. |
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| OWBC | Nov 8 2009, 05:04 PM Post #65 |
Sixth Man
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Didn't we have similar posts about Andre Smith and Everton just pushing everything though Smith? Sharks need to have players regularly scoring good points to take the pressure off Cook having to score but also to make sure the defence have others to look after I like Cook. When Sharks played Riders at the start of the season I thought he looked a good player. |
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| dave f | Nov 8 2009, 05:34 PM Post #66 |
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All-Star
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yeah, but you have to remember everton won one trophy and nearly won another 2. So it can work. evertons downfall was more that they had some other egos on the team who struggled to deal with the dependence on Andre. Which I dont think (at the moment) that sheffield have. It will be interesting to see how it all works out. |
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| Number6 | Nov 8 2009, 07:57 PM Post #67 |
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Sixth Man
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I can see that fans of other teams see that Mike Cook is a shot hog, however , I dont think you understand Sharks ethos, It has always ( with a hichup in the last 2 years ) been TEAM, The team aims to play to it's strengths, v Jets Cook 32 pts & 4 assists, Patton 20 pts, Toney 17 pts, Lyons 12 pts, Cauthorn 9 pts v Eagles Cook 36 pts & 5 assists , Toneu 19 pts, Patton 17 pts, Lyons 11 pts. A reasonable spread, of double digit scorers , and I think in both games all 7 of the rotation scored, plus some of the bench players. Cook is a terrific player, so we work to get him open in the spots he likes, so when he's there he has the green light When he's on a role ( and is double teamed , the others find themselves open , he's a great foil for other players. Sharks PG's have never been encouraged to hog scoring , so whereas Ryan used to score highly at Thunder, he is under no pressure to do that here, If Mike is scoring Todd & Taps can concentrate on rebounding & playing D The next time you see them ask Todd / Taps / Attiba / Ryan if they are upset at not posting big numbers,......... the answer will be NO, We have NO EGO's, that is one thing Attiba is strong on , and he has the guys happy to do that, I havent forgotten Perry, he loves to play , & he can & does score, but he is a role player, and enjoys that situation. ) |
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Number6, cut me in half & it will say SHARKS SUPPORTER all the way through | |
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8:20 AM Nov 26
