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Clarification of a refereeing decision please
Topic Started: Oct 10 2009, 04:09 PM (3,226 Views)
LondonBhoy
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I was watching a U18 match this afternoon which was poorly refereed.

One of the spectators expressed his rather robust opinion of one of the refs, which he heard.

The abused ref then insisted that the spectator (who was not a player, coach or camp follower) leave the hall, or he and the other ref would abandon the game.

After some discussion, and to allow the game to finish, the spectator left.

My question is, do the refs how the power to eject spectators?

Many thanks

LB

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widebodiedjet
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my understanding is that refs do have this power, although the cannot punish anyone who isnt a team follower ie on the bench
I BELIEVE IN THE RIGHT TO ARM BEARS
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A_MIG
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A spectator can not be ejected by a referee, but a referee could ask a member of staff at the sports centre to remove the person.
A_MIG
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Sam_H
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Im sure I remember a fan getting a technical foul once, can migs do that? This was a fan not associated with the team staff in anyway though it was obvious who he was supporting. Or is this not actually possible and I have imagined it? :laugh
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AS-H
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Yes it was the Bears (not sure if Worthing or Brighton at the time) at Thames Valley. One of the supporters behind the bench said something the referee didn't like an he thought it came from us so T'd the bench up, despite the individual (I can't remember who it was) actually going up to courtside and saying it was him
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OWBC
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My son's team received a technical because after a decision I said "shocking decision". The ref gave my son's team a technical even though I was just a supporter. The coach argued that they couldn't do that and they insisted they could and there was only a few points in the game at the time and not long to go.
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LondonBhoy
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and did you challenge it afterwards? Did your son's team lose as a result of the T?

The refs in my case threatened to award the game to the opposition 20-0 unless the spectator left (and so he did!)

LB

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OWBC
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The refs wouldn't listen to the coach after the match. My son's team lost by 10 points.

At the time of the T there was only 3 points in the game.
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booooom
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Where were you standing?
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OWBC
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Sitting in seats behind the bench as these were the only ones available. There were about 15 of us supporting.
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Sam_H
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I also recall a fan getting T'd up at Solent once, not sure if thats correct though. Not even sure why the Bears would have gone to Solent either. Most migs are pretty good at ignoring fans though. What would one have to say to actually get a mig to ask the stewards to remove you? Heckling is part of the game and Im sure the stewards would ask you to go anyway if you continued to use profanity. I think I'd feel a sense of satisfaction if I managed to irk a mig so much he got me removed. :laugh
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Saintpat
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Quote:
 
I think I'd feel a sense of satisfaction if I managed to irk a mig so much he got me removed


I had a certain amount of satisfaction when the ref gave me a 'v' sign!! :roflol2
"the celebrated and canonised scrivener, the formidable St Pat."
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booooom
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Quote:
 
My son's team received a technical because after a decision I said "shocking decision"


We may be focusing on the wrong issue here....

Many (Most?) Junior Clubs have a standards document of some sort, covering behaviour of parents at games. In those circumstances I'd expect your club to have contacted you with regard to this unnacceptable behaviour.....
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firebird
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booooom
Oct 19 2009, 01:29 PM
Quote:
 
My son's team received a technical because after a decision I said "shocking decision"


We may be focusing on the wrong issue here....

Many (Most?) Junior Clubs have a standards document of some sort, covering behaviour of parents at games. In those circumstances I'd expect your club to have contacted you with regard to this unnacceptable behaviour.....
Yup, Agree totally.
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OWBC
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So I can't have an opinion then. Dictatorship starts now.
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OWBC
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I didn't breach our club's code of conduct. I wasn't offensive to anyone. I didn't use bad language.

How can saying shocking decision be classed as a technical anyway. The coach who is the chairperson of our club didn't think I had breached the code of conduct and was as appalled by the decision as the rest of our supporters and the opposition coach. I wasn't the only person to have questioned a decision in the game.

Does your club's code of conduct say you can't disagree with a decision?

Unacceptable behaviour. As you weren't there I doubt you can comment on what is unacceptable.
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booooom
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Anyone can have any opinion they like. It's just not appropriate to voice it from behind your teams bench directed at match officials, in my opinion.
I don't need to have been there, your own quote stated 'Shocking Decision', nothing else needs to be witnessed.

I'm not a member of a club, but I'm aware that most Junior EBL clubs I deal with regularly do not allow such behaviour from parents or players for that matter.

http://www.englandbasketball.co.uk/uploads/Child Protection/Code of ethics and conduct 2009.pdf
This is the current code from EB on this. (Around which club policy should be built, I'm aware of EB having to take action regards a club's followers poor behaviour)

Para6 deals with conduct of parents:-

6. Parents/guardians (and other family members)
All family/guardians of participants will:
• Teach your child to treat everyone equally and sensitively regardless of their age, disability, gender, race,
ethnic origin, cultural background, sexual orientation, religious beliefs or political affiliation; gender, ethnic
origin or cultural background;
• Support all efforts to remove verbal, physical and racist abuse from basketball;
• Not force an unwilling participant to take part in basketball;
• Remember that young people are involved for their enjoyment - not yours;
• Encourage all to play by the rules and respect the match officials;
• Never ridicule or shout at a participant for making a mistake or losing a game;
• Teach that effort and teamwork are as important as victory, so that the result of each game is accepted
without undue disappointment;
• Remember that young people and vulnerable adults learn best by example;
• Refrain from publicly questioning the judgement or honesty of match officials;
• Recognise the value and importance of volunteers in basketball. They give their time, energy and
resources to provide recreational activities for others.


I make it you fall foul of items 2, 4, 5, 8, 9 and possible 10 with just 2 words.....



Can we agree that:-
a:- You shouldn't have said that
b:- There shouldn't have been a technical foul (Though saying that from behind a bench does leave opportunity for someone thinking it WAS from the bench!)
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OWBC
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I wasn't the only one voicing opinions about the game. I feel I'm being victimised on here and you can't be judge of what happened. The opposition supporters had been questioning decisions all game.

I didn't shout it out at the top of my voice I was voicing an opinion to the person sitting next to me.

I don't agree I cannot voice an opinion to a friend and it wasn't amied at the ref. The ref was about 10 yeards away.

I can understand it if I was abusive but I wasn't.

I'm not going to say anymore because we are going round in circles. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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booooom
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I am clearly incapable of letting things lie.
Quote:
 
I wasn't the only one voicing opinions about the game. I feel I'm being victimised on here and you can't be judge of what happened. The opposition supporters had been questioning decisions all game.

"Everyone else was doing it" is not a defence. I am only judging on your own version, quoted here, of what happened.
Quote:
 
I didn't shout it out at the top of my voice I was voicing an opinion to the person sitting next to me.

Well it was loud enough for a match official to hear. (Thus also audible to the entire bench)

You have said both you and the Chairman/Coach do not believe you have broken the clubs code of conduct - here is an extract from your clubs website:-
Code of Conduct for parents/carers
Leicester Beauchamp Cannons Basketball Club
· Discourage unfair play and arguing with officials and coaches.
· Publicly accept officials’ judgements.
(Other items removed for clarity)

I'm disappointed the Chairman/Coach was unaware as you state.....

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Sam_H
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But isn't the real issue, was the mig actually allowed to give the T to someone sitting in the stands? Or did he use powers he doesn't actually have?
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shorty
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Those statements are so contradictive its shocking, yes those are to be taught to everyone.
But to imply that a parent is not allowed to show some passion supporting there child/team, is shocking. If you were to swear or go and lay the ref out then fair enough.
I have never seen a game of basketball where the crowd has not jeered at some point during a game, no matter what level. Ref's make mistakes its part of sports, and they get stick its part of the job.

The real anal application of some of these policies is exactly why people grow up thinking taking part is more important, than winninng which is why we suffer at most sports on a international level.

AKER Sports
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dave f
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cant agree

Kids need to be taught to respect the refs because :

1. If they dont then they will be lose focus on playing the game (which is hard enough when learning it). They should be taught to control the controllables and worry about nothing else.
2. They avoid the risk of needless technical fouls.
3. They will fail to learn as to how to adjust their game as per the manner in which the referees are calling it.

Undermining a referee in earshot of a team of kids is IMHO out of order and inappropriate (as someone who has played, coached and reffed). I dont see how anyone could have any issue with the code of conduct.
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observer
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Totally agree with Dave F. Any parent going along to a junior game intending to voice dissent to the referees should consider whether they should be there and the club should make the position clear as part of the development programme and it should be the club (not the referee) controlling the conduct of the spectators (the referee is entitled to remind the club of that responsibility but cannot T up the spectator).

If basketball goes down the raod of Sunday league football then we are all in big trouble and soon there will not be any referees to do the games.
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