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| WHO YOU GOT THIS WEEKEND....how you going to do? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 2 2009, 10:41 AM (2,155 Views) | |
| widebodiedjet | Oct 2 2009, 10:41 AM Post #1 |
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Starter
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this is manchesters schedule Under 18 Men Manchester Magic -Cheshire Jets Home Saturday 1:00pm League Trafford -Birmingham Home Saturday 3:30pm League Trafford -Sheffield Sharks Away Sunday 4:15pm League Under 15 Boys Manchester Magic -Sefton Away Sunday 2:00pm League Trafford -Stockport Away Sunday 12:15pm League Under 13 Boys Manchester Magic 1 -Woodchurch Home Sunday 1:00pm League think it will be a tough couple of games for the under 18s trafford! |
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I BELIEVE IN THE RIGHT TO ARM BEARS | |
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| widebodiedjet | Oct 3 2009, 06:48 PM Post #2 |
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Starter
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Under 18 Men Manchester Magic 90-69Cheshire Jets Trafford 60-61Birmingham Under 15 Boys Manchester MagicP -PSefton looked quite an easy win for manchester 18s, trafford played top of their game and actually had a three pointer that would have forced over time rimm out and the put back only scored 2. |
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I BELIEVE IN THE RIGHT TO ARM BEARS | |
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| Matt Hooper | Oct 3 2009, 09:38 PM Post #3 |
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Bench Player
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Did anyone see the U14 game between NASSA and Ipswich boys today? Ipswich killed them twice last year but NASSA blew them out today - what happened? |
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| booooom | Oct 4 2009, 11:33 AM Post #4 |
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Bench Player
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No big man. |
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| firebird | Oct 4 2009, 01:41 PM Post #5 |
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Rookie
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So as has been said in previous posts........ a one man team
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| GlennHardaker | Oct 4 2009, 05:44 PM Post #6 |
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Hall of Famer
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Magic U13 beat Woodchurch 181-16 have to ask what either team learn from such a margin- know it's a debate had before though |
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Feel the (Huddersfield)Heat ! | |
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| The Fan | Oct 4 2009, 05:52 PM Post #7 |
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Titan
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I love how people spread rumours...... 1: I've not seen this team described as a one man team anywhere, just heard that the big kid they have was very good - I saw them last season and no way were they a one man team. 2: The 'big man' in question WAS playing - they had a very similar team to last season, they just played very badly and NASSA played very well. You should get your facts straight before running down a programme and a team that have made huge strides in recent years. These are 12 and 13 year olds your are accusing of being a one man team. If Ipswich are producing good players at this age it is only good for English Basketball. |
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| Matt Hooper | Oct 4 2009, 06:01 PM Post #8 |
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Bench Player
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Here's whats going to happen: Everyone will slag off the Manchester Coach for beating a team by this margin. Ipswich U16 Girls also won 131-9 against Chiltern, so I'm sure whoever coaches that team will also get their name dragged through the mud. There was a ton written along the same lines about various teams last season. I absolutly agree with Glenn. Noboddy learns from this but we don't need to have thi same debate again do we? |
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| firebird | Oct 4 2009, 06:47 PM Post #9 |
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Rookie
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Point taken, But do we need to see teams beaten by such a huge margin, the kids only do as they are told to by their coach. Nobody wants to see teams drop out, and nobody wants to get beat by those kind of numbers. Have been on the end of the venom spat out by fellow parents, and yes it was embaressing to sit through. On the other hand, big club development brings big teams.... is there ever going to be a good solution??
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| Matt Hooper | Oct 4 2009, 06:55 PM Post #10 |
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Bench Player
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Premier Divisions at the younger age groups?? To me this is the only solution |
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| FATBALLER | Oct 4 2009, 06:59 PM Post #11 |
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BALLER DAD
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A suggestion could be for the particularly strong teams to play up a year i.e. U13's play in U14 league? They may not win the the league, but they would certainly have tougher games and therefore develop more, and this would leave the younger league a little more balanced. Any teams subject to regular large defeats may well benefit from playing local league until they are ready to step up. |
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| dave f | Oct 4 2009, 07:09 PM Post #12 |
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Franchise Player
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it all depends on how it happened. If a coach continues to run a full court press after more than a quarter of a game like that then for me he shouldnt be coaching. Because his own team is not actually working on any concepts or having to run any offences, they are simply running back the ball for lay ups. And therefore he is not doing his own job. If its just a total mismatch then its a scheduling problem. |
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| Matt Hooper | Oct 4 2009, 07:16 PM Post #13 |
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Bench Player
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Dave - it could be a she!! Also, to say they shouldn't be coaching is a little harsh - i think its better to say its naive if it happens once but if they don't learn from it and do it time and time again then they arn't suitable. In principle teams playing up is a great idea but we all know that people want to win games, qualify for play-offs and even win championships. |
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| dave f | Oct 4 2009, 07:23 PM Post #14 |
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Franchise Player
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you might be right but it seems to me that each coach must go into a game or a season with aims and targets in relation to player and team development. And I cant figure out any scenario where pressing a much inferior team for 4 quarters assists in meeting any of those targets. Which means logically that that the coach must not have those targets to hit ergo in my view should not be coaching!! |
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| Matt Hooper | Oct 4 2009, 07:28 PM Post #15 |
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Bench Player
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100% agree with you mate. But we both know that not all coaches coaching are what we would like to call 'coaches'. Often its a keen parent with a bit of local league background or a young player how isn't playing senior basketball for whatever reason - not everyone thinks that deeply. They just want to win by as much as they can so they feel like they are doing a good job. |
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| firebird | Oct 4 2009, 09:45 PM Post #16 |
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Rookie
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Can say that magic do play up a year but not untill U14, ie U14 Magic play as U15 Trafford As for press, 1st qtr 53 - 0 full press, 2nd qtr 95 - 6 full press..... bad times went home nothing more to see that would change the game play.
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| tazzman | Oct 5 2009, 12:41 PM Post #17 |
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Bench Player
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full court 1st qtr , half court 2nd and 3rd one man on the ball , 4th 3 point line . Edited by tazzman, Oct 6 2009, 01:15 PM.
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| tazzman | Oct 6 2009, 08:55 AM Post #18 |
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Bench Player
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Edited by tazzman, Oct 6 2009, 01:14 PM.
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| firebird | Oct 6 2009, 08:04 PM Post #19 |
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Rookie
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90 odd points in the first half, 90 odd points in the second half. A change of defence obviously hasn't worked, did the offence change? Im no great coach, but surely there is more than steal and fast break? Yes the other team didn't pass well at all, or play very well for that matter. Im also sure that with the vast number of players available to Manchester, the stronger players would have gained nothing more than an excercise session and the weaker ones would have gained much more. Don't get me wrong, I have seen you coach at different levels and have no problem with your ability, dedication and passion. I do have a problem with no one seeming to care about games like these, where the much weaker teams come away looking like they have just lost a war. I am not sure of what the answer is, but feel that there must be one somewhere
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| Matt Hooper | Oct 7 2009, 08:25 AM Post #20 |
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Bench Player
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The answer is that these teams shouldn't be on the same court. There is no way of predicting how good an U13 team is so manchester would have selected their best team for the first game of the season with the expectation/hope that the team they were playing were going to be a tough matchup. Also, having spent the whole summer preparing for their National League debut neither the coach or the kids would be happy to put aside all their hard work and do things differently because the opposition is inferia. People are far too quick to knock people without all the facts. The fact of the matter is the same programmes are strong most years so why can't we have North and South premier divisions at the youngest age groups. People will use travel as a reason for not doing this but the programmes that take developing players REALLY seriousley will think nothing of travelling for three hours for a decent game - i would sooner travel three hours for a tough game that an hour for a blow out. If a club feel they are particularly stong at U13 one year then they can make their case to EB and play premier for that season. U14/U15 divisions can be based on how strong the team was the previous season. I think we spend too much time asking why the team that won did things in a certain way rather than asking what the team that lost were doing. |
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| tazzman | Oct 7 2009, 10:55 AM Post #21 |
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staman , firebird, totally agree with your last comments .
Edited by tazzman, Oct 7 2009, 10:56 AM.
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| wildcat | Oct 7 2009, 01:18 PM Post #22 |
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Bench Player
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See the forum discussion about 'the future.' Elite competitions need to be put in place sooner; conference competitions should be truly different (so no 'easy' option to make the play offs) and there should be hard-fought battles each week, and players and standards will improve. Just have a look in the national league results for all those blow outs in the 13-18 competitions. For many teams, they play their 'first' competitive game at final fours. Many of the young players already 'play up' in competitions, by the way. The National League is still combining twin goals of participation and elite competition (see this result at U13) and it actually misses both targets this way. The team getting blown out might lose motivation (at least the parents) and the winning team actually has to invent ways of not scoring. Playing fast break, high speed basketball (also full mtm, for example) is at the core of developing players and making it natural for them to play this way (see Serbia, Spain, etc). It must have been very frustrating for both teams. |
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| BacktoBasics | Oct 7 2009, 03:28 PM Post #23 |
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I agree with most of what you say Wildcat. I'm not sure its quite true to say that a teams first competitive game would be at the final fours. Would you advocate returning to the days of having a truly national junior league consisting of the top 10 or 12 teams in the country, with the north and south premier below that and the various conferences below them? |
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| firebird | Oct 7 2009, 07:50 PM Post #24 |
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Rookie
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I dont think saying that these teams shouldn't be on the same court is THE answer, they were. Manchester should have, and did, put out their strongest team for the first game. No problem with that. Problem lies in even after a change in defence, the baskets still poured in. I ask again, did the offence change? The end result was more than obvious in the first qtr, 50 ish to O (zero, nil, nothing) As for getting all the facts, I am more than aware of the Manchester programme, have no problems with it or its coaches. I am not slating this coach for his win, or the other coach for not making sure that his own team are ready to national league standard. I am a bystander that feels more could be done to stop this total humiliation of children wanting to get involved in a great sport. Again, I am not sure what the answer is but feel there must be one. I too would travel 3 hours for a good game where my child would spend 5 mins on the court involved in a battle where both teams put up good team game. I would disuade him from playing in the return game if he was involved in either of the teams that slayed or died! Edited by firebird, Oct 7 2009, 08:08 PM.
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| wildcat | Oct 7 2009, 07:52 PM Post #25 |
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Bench Player
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OK. Maybe a slight exaggeration, but there are few games within 5 points for the very top tier. At U13, Ipswich and Sheffield played their first 'real' game in the final at final fours. One of the reasons for the 4 North teams at U16 final fours was that the North was actually pretty competitive, with a good top 5--the cup final at U16 was an embarrassment. The North had played tough games whereas the South was much more unevenly spread, it seemed. Something like a top 10 Premier league sounds great, but the travels would be daunting at that age. Maybe have 3 or 4 big tournaments with separate trophies a year. Anyway, ideas to the 'future' forum? |
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went home nothing more to see that would change the game play.

12:29 AM Jul 11