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Deng nominated for FIBA Europe Player of Year
Topic Started: Dec 19 2007, 11:21 PM (1,414 Views)
GlennHardaker
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He's the only nominee who is from a team that weren't in Eurobasket in Spain

You vote online at FIBA Europe's website and have to award three places- mine went to Deng and two players who helped Russia win Eurobasket, JR Holden and Andrei Kirilenko

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inaminute23
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CANT FIND WHERE TO VOTE!
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GlennHardaker
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Use the link at the bottom of the home page
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JohnSwissH
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Same three as Glenn. Really couldn't think of anyone else.
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Vilius
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My votes went to Šiškauskas for winning treble with PAO and bronze with Lithuania, Andrei Kirilenko for Eurobasket 2007, and Dimitris Diamantidis (same as Šiška except Eurobasket 4th place).
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misterbongo
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Its gotta be kirilenko and holden just because they beat the Spanish in the final*.

Kirilenko ( Ivan Drago lookalike) was a great leader all the way to the final


Diamantidis was excelent and siskauskas too but i gotta give credit to the Russian lads and of course NIL POINTS for EVERY player in the spanish team and their coach for their school boyish-ness , arrogance "mine mine mine" attitude , theatrical style throughout the tournament

watch that video and you ll see what i mean

spain euro 2007


KIRILENKO for me


EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS 1987, 2005 , beaten the NBA guys to reach WORLD CUP FINAL... HELLAS 4VER
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fanofleopards
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The public vote only counts for 30% of the vote, so even if Deng finishes first in the public vote, the so called panel of experts votes carry more Loul weight. So the question is how many British Journalist are on this list and will they rank Deng in first position.
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thirtythr33
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Kirilenko had a good FIBA tournament but there's always this to count against him... OUCH!
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Noel Edmonds
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Yeah, surely Kirilenko having one of his worst seasons ever has to count against him? I'd have Deng over AK on merit.
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Vilius
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1. Andrei Kirilenko, Russia.
2. Dirk Nowitzki, Germany.
3. Jose Calderon, Spain.
4. Tony Parker, France.
5. Ramūnas Šiškauskas, Lithuania.
6. Dimitris Diamantidis, Greece.
7. Pau Gasol, Spain.
8. Andris Biedrins, Latvia.
9. Matjaz Smodis, Slovenia.
10. Luol Deng, Great Britain.
11. John Robert Holden, Russia.

Fan and expert voting details here.
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Noel Edmonds
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Kirilenko was pretty damn bad for Utah last season, I can't see how he deserves this more than Tony and Dirk.

Luol finishing so low is a joke, he (almost) single handedly took his country into Division A and had a very strong NBA season.
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Vilius
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Noel Edmonds
Feb 8 2008, 07:58 PM
Luol finishing so low is a joke, he (almost) single handedly took his country into Division A and had a very strong NBA season.

He could be 8th at best in this list. He did help Great Britain to qualify for Division A but we must not forget what level Division B is. All top 7 players in this list deserve to be above Deng. I don't think I need to explain why.
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Noel Edmonds
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Vilius
Feb 8 2008, 07:03 PM
Noel Edmonds
Feb 8 2008, 07:58 PM
Luol finishing so low is a joke, he (almost) single handedly took his country into Division A and had a very strong NBA season.

He could be 8th at best in this list. He did help Great Britain to qualify for Division A but we must not forget what level Division B is. All top 7 players in this list deserve to be above Deng. I don't think I need to explain why.

I think you do.

I thought this list was based on a player's performance over the course of the entire season? If this is the case, then why does Kirilenko deserve to be number one?
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Vilius
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Noel Edmonds
Feb 8 2008, 09:36 PM
Noel Edmonds,Feb 8 2008
07:58 PM

I think you do.

I thought this list was based on a player's performance over the course of the entire season? If this is the case, then why does Kirilenko deserve to be number one?

OK. Do you want me to go player-by-player? I also disagree with Kirilenko being 1st. Nowitzki deserved it more. Other players had good season in their clubs as well as doing well for their national teams on the big stage. Deng had a good season with his club and did well with the NT but it was low profile competition. If he brings GB to Eurobasket then he should be way more serious contender. The fact that he is on the list shows that he was considered as one of the candidates. Deng should be 8th but not higher.
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inaminute23
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I can see both sides of the story here, but what i would like to ask Vilius. Will Deng be the best player in Division A later this year, or one of them? Also on paper where would you put GB;s squad especially if Pops, and Gordon/Azubuike included. Just trying to get an idea of how we will fair & also what your thoughts are on our team, & our future
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Noel Edmonds
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Vilius
Feb 8 2008, 07:59 PM
Noel Edmonds,Feb 8 2008
09:36 PM
Noel Edmonds,Feb 8 2008
07:58 PM

I think you do.

I thought this list was based on a player's performance over the course of the entire season? If this is the case, then why does Kirilenko deserve to be number one?

OK. Do you want me to go player-by-player? I also disagree with Kirilenko being 1st. Nowitzki deserved it more. Other players had good season in their clubs as well as doing well for their national teams on the big stage. Deng had a good season with his club and did well with the NT but it was low profile competition. If he brings GB to Eurobasket then he should be way more serious contender. The fact that he is on the list shows that he was considered as one of the candidates. Deng should be 8th but not higher.

The same "weaker competition" argument could also be used for Šiškauskas, Diamantidis and Smodis, though.

Not only is Deng playing in a much stronger league than all of those players, but he was also a borderline NBA all-star.
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Vilius
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Noel Edmonds
Feb 8 2008, 09:36 PM

The same "weaker competition" argument could also be used for Šiškauskas, Diamantidis and Smodis, though.

Not only is Deng playing in a much stronger league than all of those players, but he was also a borderline NBA all-star.

That was so American... What do you know about European basketball? There can be no comparison between the gap of NBA vs Europe and Eurobasket vs Division B. Euroleague is very close to NBA and the top clubs that Šiškauskas, Diamantidis and Smodis played for are very strong. They all played in Euroleague final and played vital roles there. While bottom teams in Division A are way off the top teams and I am not talking about Division B.

inaminute23
Feb 8 2008, 10:12 PM

I can see both sides of the story here, but what i would like to ask Vilius. Will Deng be the best player in Division A later this year, or one of them? Also on paper where would you put GB;s squad especially if Pops, and Gordon/Azubuike included. Just trying to get an idea of how we will fair & also what your thoughts are on our team, & our future

I can't say that Deng will be best player but he could be one of the best in Eurobasket qualifiers easily. He is the best player on GB squd and it means that he will be top scorer and should be leading the team in other stats categories. But if you make it to Eurobasket you will see the real picture. In Division B and in general when you play low profile teams talented players can win you games. While on the big stage the defense is on the next level, tactics and the skills of the coach are very important. This is where you need to have a team and not just a single star player. Obviously you need to get most of him but he won't win you a game if other players are way off standard. So in this case having Pops, Gordon, Azubuike is a good thing. If you get these players you have real chances of qualifying to Eurobasket. Portugal made a huge surprise when they qualified without a single player from a top club. Almost all of them play in Portuguese league which is one of the weaker leagues. And they even win some games in Eurobasket. The key to their success was a great coach and great teamwork.

It's hard to rate GB squad without seeing them play a single game against serious opponents. They deserve to be in Division A, that's for sure. Regarding your future. I believe you can qualify for Eurobasket and I wish you that because it might be a push for British basketball. There are many things needed to have a bright future starting with youth system and finishing with TV coverage. It was discussed many times on this forum. The worst thing that could happen is stopping the progress that the team is making. You can't no matter wether you play in 2012 Olympics or not. It's a preparation for a single event and then go back. There must be plans for the future to increase and maintain high level of basketball in GB.
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inaminute23
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Thanks Vilius is was good to read your insight. I am very optimistic of GB chances based purely on our defense alone, this should stand us in good stead and give us a fighting chance.
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Noel Edmonds
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Vilius
Feb 9 2008, 10:42 AM
Noel Edmonds
Feb 8 2008, 09:36 PM

The same "weaker competition" argument could also be used for Šiškauskas, Diamantidis and Smodis, though.

Not only is Deng playing in a much stronger league than all of those players, but he was also a borderline NBA all-star.

That was so American... What do you know about European basketball? There can be no comparison between the gap of NBA vs Europe and Eurobasket vs Division B. Euroleague is very close to NBA and the top clubs that Šiškauskas, Diamantidis and Smodis played for are very strong. They all played in Euroleague final and played vital roles there. While bottom teams in Division A are way off the top teams and I am not talking about Division B.

inaminute23
Feb 8 2008, 10:12 PM

I can see both sides of the story here, but what i would like to ask Vilius. Will Deng be the best player in Division A later this year, or one of them? Also on paper where would you put GB;s squad especially if Pops, and Gordon/Azubuike included. Just trying to get an idea of how we will fair & also what your thoughts are on our team, & our future

I can't say that Deng will be best player but he could be one of the best in Eurobasket qualifiers easily. He is the best player on GB squd and it means that he will be top scorer and should be leading the team in other stats categories. But if you make it to Eurobasket you will see the real picture. In Division B and in general when you play low profile teams talented players can win you games. While on the big stage the defense is on the next level, tactics and the skills of the coach are very important. This is where you need to have a team and not just a single star player. Obviously you need to get most of him but he won't win you a game if other players are way off standard. So in this case having Pops, Gordon, Azubuike is a good thing. If you get these players you have real chances of qualifying to Eurobasket. Portugal made a huge surprise when they qualified without a single player from a top club. Almost all of them play in Portuguese league which is one of the weaker leagues. And they even win some games in Eurobasket. The key to their success was a great coach and great teamwork.

It's hard to rate GB squad without seeing them play a single game against serious opponents. They deserve to be in Division A, that's for sure. Regarding your future. I believe you can qualify for Eurobasket and I wish you that because it might be a push for British basketball. There are many things needed to have a bright future starting with youth system and finishing with TV coverage. It was discussed many times on this forum. The worst thing that could happen is stopping the progress that the team is making. You can't no matter wether you play in 2012 Olympics or not. It's a preparation for a single event and then go back. There must be plans for the future to increase and maintain high level of basketball in GB.

I watch Euroleague and ULEB Cup basketball sometimes and the gap between that and the NBA is significant. All the best European players play (or will soon play) in the NBA. The NBA is in effect a world super league. How can you explain NBA scrubs putting up huge numbers when they go over to Europe?

I don't doubt that the gap may be bigger between Divisions A and B, but you're deluded if you can't recognise that the NBA is on a totally different level to European basketball.
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Vilius
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Noel Edmonds
Feb 8 2008, 09:36 PM

I watch Euroleague and ULEB Cup basketball sometimes and the gap between that and the NBA is significant. All the best European players play (or will soon play) in the NBA. The NBA is in effect a world super league. How can you explain NBA scrubs putting up huge numbers when they go over to Europe?

I don't doubt that the gap may be bigger between Divisions A and B, but you're deluded if you can't recognise that the NBA is on a totally different level to European basketball.

First of all NBA is different style of basketball and if you watch Euroleague you would see the differences easily. That explains why some players can't fit in NBA but are good in Europe. In NBA rules are changed to make the game offensive as much as possible. The defence is different (individual). In Europe basketball is a team play. The defense is very tight and tactics play a serious role. There are many differences that I don't feel the need to be named. Secondly NBA is a product that is very well marketed and is being sold well. And no, not all the best European players play in NBA. I don't question the fact that NBA is the strongest league in the world but the way you compare it to Europe makes me wonder if you actually saw Euroleague and when was the last time you did that. What I see is that we won't agree with this one in the end so it's pointless discussion if you consider NBA as a "totally different level".
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Noel Edmonds
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Vilius
Feb 9 2008, 04:30 PM
Noel Edmonds
Feb 8 2008, 09:36 PM

I watch Euroleague and ULEB Cup basketball sometimes and the gap between that and the NBA is significant. All the best European players play (or will soon play) in the NBA. The NBA is in effect a world super league. How can you explain NBA scrubs putting up huge numbers when they go over to Europe?

I don't doubt that the gap may be bigger between Divisions A and B, but you're deluded if you can't recognise that the NBA is on a totally different level to European basketball.

First of all NBA is different style of basketball and if you watch Euroleague you would see the differences easily. That explains why some players can't fit in NBA but are good in Europe. In NBA rules are changed to make the game offensive as much as possible. The defence is different (individual). In Europe basketball is a team play. The defense is very tight and tactics play a serious role. There are many differences that I don't feel the need to be named. Secondly NBA is a product that is very well marketed and is being sold well. And no, not all the best European players play in NBA. I don't question the fact that NBA is the strongest league in the world but the way you compare it to Europe makes me wonder if you actually saw Euroleague and when was the last time you did that. What I see is that we won't agree with this one in the end so it's pointless discussion if you consider NBA as a "totally different level".

Charlie Bell averaged 33 points through 15 games in the ACB, he was considered a super-star in Europe and yet is little more than a role player in the NBA. Anthony Parker is a 2 time Euroleague MVP and is an average NBA player.

These, along with countless other examples show that regardless of differing styles of play, the NBA is a much higher level of competition.
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Vilius
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Noel Edmonds
Feb 9 2008, 06:52 PM
Charlie Bell averaged 33 points through 15 games in the ACB, he was considered a super-star in Europe and yet is little more than a role player in the NBA. Anthony Parker  is a 2 time Euroleague MVP and is an average NBA player.

These, along with countless other examples show that regardless of differing styles of play, the NBA is a much higher level of competition.

He played for one of the weaker teams in ACB. He was easily the best player there. His team didn't even play in European competition. That's a team way off Euroleague level so it's not surprising to see him doing so well.
Anthony Parker didn't have much of competition in the team and he was younger then. He had more playing minutes than in NBA. He's 4th top scorer in Raptors with 11.8 points and he will be 33 this June.
NBA is better but not the way you put it. Let's put an end to this endless discussion.
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