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ECW: Does WWE need three brands or not; Q says no
Topic Started: Oct 29 2006, 01:02 AM (304 Views)
Jules
Bad Mofo'
Global Moderator
Snowman
 
The Wrestling Observer is reporting that as of today, a decision has been made within WWE for no more ECW House Show events to take place after the end of November. The ECW brand will still have TV every week for "ECW on Sci Fi" and ECW wrestlers and feuds will likely continue on other House Show events.

This explains reports earlier today pointing out that scheduled ECW House Show events in December were pulled from WWE.com and ECW.com yesterday with no explanation given.


Not a good sign for the brand....




Well, they were running the house shows in those old school ECW venues weren't they?

You had to know with the new direction the brand is heading up that this was just a matter of time. Plus by doing this they won't have to deal with those pesky "smart" fans.
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Snowman
The Snowman Cometh
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I am just hoping they will keep it going....for what it is, I enjoy it.
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Q-BZ

Admin
Snowman
Oct 29 2006, 04:24 AM
I am just hoping they will keep it going....for what it is, I enjoy it.


I'm glad you enjoy it, but:

Like this? I don't. Put it out of its misery, and ours. I'm tired of seeing the ECW name and legacy shat on like this. It needs to die.








Snowman
Oct 29 2006, 12:55 AM
The Wrestling Observer is reporting that as of today, a decision has been made within WWE for no more ECW House Show events to take place after the end of November. The ECW brand will still have TV every week for "ECW on Sci Fi" and ECW wrestlers and feuds will likely continue on other House Show events.

This explains reports earlier today pointing out that scheduled ECW House Show events in December were pulled from WWE.com and ECW.com yesterday with no explanation given.


Not a good sign for the brand....

No surprise whatsoever.

Let's face it: The thing is trash in its present form.


They'd do well to just go back to occasional special PPV's and having "ECW invasions" on RAW and SD vs. what they're doing now.


As far as I'm concerned, they can go ahead and shut it down and it really won't be any loss.



Some day, if we're really lucky, Paul Heyman will decide not to be a complete whore and maybe he'll find a way to get a real ECW thing going some day.

This present thing can't die fast enough. It sucks, even though there's some nice talent on the roster...mostly WWE carryovers.

You may "enjoy it" and that's nice...but it is trash. It deserves to die.


I want real ECW or just don't bother.


The novelty has completely worn off and I want to remind you all of something:

Somewhere on this forum is a thread for either One Night Stand I or II where myself and several of you made this prediction:

The prediction was: Vince would bring back an ECW to control it and then choke it out and kill it like what the Invasion angle did for WCW.

That Invasion angle will forever be a reminder of how WWE was given a once in a lifetime oppurtunity for gold, all time dream matches, you name it...and they flushed it down the toilet.

And now they did it with "ECW."

"Keep your friend close. Keep your enemies closer...and then bury them." That's what happened here. Make no mistake about it.


ECW had so much buzz going for it even through ONS II, and many of us were skeptical about how mileage it could have returning to TV. Then we saw that wretched first episode.

The buzz is dead. Vince killed ECW. He shat on it just like he shat on it and especially WCW during the Invasion angle, just as some of us "cynically" predicted and expected.

I couldn't be less surprised, but disappointed nonetheless.




Folks, I knew the damned thing was doomed after watching it for the first three weeks. It's trash.

When they have to port over Kurt Angle (not an ECW guy by any stretch), Big Show (he's back to being Big Slow as of late in case you hadn't noticed) and Hardcore Holly (this was a good move) to fill out a roster headlined by RVD and Sabu, the only really great talent that can crossover into WWE main events...the rest of the roster is a joke.

TNA arguably has a better roster than this ECW show does. Hell, some weeks? TNA has a better show going for them than what this thing is.

And that's coming from me.

Time to shut it down.

If you're not going to do it right and give us real ECW, just shut the thing down.
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Stinger
The Admin is Here!
Admin
From all accounts, ECW house shows weren't drawing very well, but I don't see the TV show going away anytime soon. Nor should it really. Q, I agree with a lot of what you said, but when it comes to pulling the plug on it and shutting it down, I disagree.

The ECW show is, to me, the best wrestling show on TV. Is it as good as it could be? No, but it's certainly not bad at all. Do you watch the show Q, or do you just read reports and whatnot?

Once the title gets off of Big Show at the PPV, the show could take off because they won't be as limited in what they can do with the mainevent.

It's a good show though, especially if you don't view it as actual ECW nor as crapping on the ECW legacy. I view it as what it is, a third WWE brand and I like it.
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Q-BZ

Admin
The Stinger
Oct 29 2006, 10:21 AM
From all accounts, ECW house shows weren't drawing very well, but I don't see the TV show going away anytime soon. Nor should it really. Q, I agree with a lot of what you said, but when it comes to pulling the plug on it and shutting it down, I disagree.

The ECW show is, to me, the best wrestling show on TV. Is it as good as it could be? No, but it's certainly not bad at all. Do you watch the show Q, or do you just read reports and whatnot?


About once a month I tune in. That's about all I can stand. Outside of that it's recaps, spoilers, you guys, etc.

Honestly? I usually forget about it outright when it airs. I'm usually doing something else and the thought doesn't even occur to me that the show is even on.

So maybe once every 4-6 weeks I remember to tune in if I'm bored and I have an hour to waste.



I just can't be bothered past that, really. There are very few people on that show that I actually give a crap about.




It certainly has some positives going for it, but I maintain: If they're going to keep it in the Bush League territory and not bother to make it a better product? Shut it down.


Quote:
 


Once the title gets off of Big Show at the PPV, the show could take off because they won't be as limited in what they can do with the mainevent.


They need a real athlete in that position. Big Show had a nice run on RAW for a while but it's clear to me that he's gained weight again and he's back to being Big Slow. We've read about how he's got at least one injury. Clearly he needs to take time off and recuperate.



Quote:
 


It's a good show though, especially if you don't view it as actual ECW nor as crapping on the ECW legacy. I view it as what it is, a third WWE brand and I like it.


Oh believe me: I haven't viewed it as ECW since the first show aired. But it is pretty bush league.





Let me make it real simple. Maybe I'm just a casual wrestling fan now, who knows?

But since you and Snowman (among probably others) seem to like this show so much: Sell it to me.

Tell me why I should be wanting to tune in every week.

God knows you guys will at least give me some effort on that front. The WWE sure as hell hasn't. Hell, they don't even bother to show ECW recaps on RAW or SD but they certainly will show SD recaps on RAW and RAW recaps on SD.

It's like the damned thing doesn't even exist.
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Stinger
The Admin is Here!
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Quote:
 
Tell me why I should be wanting to tune in every week.


The main event is easily going to be the best TV main event of the week, usually getting close to or around 15 minutes, unlike RAW main events which don't actually start until 5 minutes before the show goes off.

Matches like RVD vs. Hardcore Holly and RVD vs. Test in the past month have both been GREAT TV matches.

The continued build up of CM Punk, a guy it's going to be hard for WWE to ignore too much. He may wrestle quick matches, but he's already got the WWE fans eating out his hand, and is second only to RVD in being the most popular.

When they have their "Extreme Matches", they tend to be pretty entertaining.

All in all, with ECW you're bound at least one good match with a few other short decent ones, as opposed to RAW where you're lucky to get a good match, and most are rather boring.
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Chad Matthews
CMV1
Global Moderator
Not having house shows will not kill the ECW brand. From what I hear, they got a new, extended TV deal w/ Sci-Fi to keep the TV show going. While the ratings aren't what they were when the brand first started, they are still good ratings for a C-show...We're talking 3 times what their old third shows used to do...

Big Show has been a great champion. He stepped it up over the summer and had very good extreme rules matches w/ everyone from Sabu to Kane to Undertaker. The reason you see him slowing down now is very simple. He's 7 foot, 500 pounds and he's been going harder than any champion in the company since July 4th. Not only has he wrestled a full ECW schedule and been in 10-13 minute main-events every other week, he's also been a fixture on Raw and SD at times. He wrestled the Punjabi Prison match in July...a HIAC in September...a few tag matches on SD...made a few more appearances on Raw...all the while going thru tables and taking kendo stick shots and wrestling big house show main-events against quicker wrestlers...

Big Show is on the short list for WWE MVP this year...

Now, after he loses the title to RVD at D2D, he needs to take some much needed time off...

As for the ECW brand he's helped carry...the ECW show is the best wrestling show on TV each week. It's simple...it's not complicated like a 20-man reverse battle royal with 6 guys winning to face 3 guys later and 1 guy who wins a match to get a bye to face one of the 3 guys who beat the 6 guys...(TNA)...

Each week, you get a CM Punk match, which is always good, yet short. Then, you get a good main-event. Whether it be Show vs. Sabu, Holly or Test vs. RVD, or RVD vs. SHow in a uniquely booked ladder match, this brand delivers...

Taking it off TV shouldn't and hopefully won't happen...and I really don't agree with Q on this one...I do, at times, forget to watch, but life is busy and it's hard to work more than one wrestling show into my schedule. SD certainly won't find it's way into my life anytime soon, but ECW frequently can and will. And why should you watch? The best wrestling match of the week...
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Q-BZ

Admin
The WWE barely has enough talent to keep two "seperate" brands floating. Most of us have said and agreed with that idea for a long time now.

It's only that much more true trying to float three seperate brands now.

I guess I'll just try and tune in this week and see what all this praise in this thread is about because I just haven't seen it.





Chad
 
Not having house shows will not kill the ECW brand. From what I hear, they got a new, extended TV deal w/ Sci-Fi to keep the TV show going. While the ratings aren't what they were when the brand first started, they are still good ratings for a C-show...We're talking 3 times what their old third shows used to do...


Hell, I've been someone who's said for years now: Just make it a TV only product and maybe a handful of house shows per week, at most.

They have an asinine amount of house shows every week, year around.



Quote:
 


Big Show has been a great champion. He stepped it up over the summer and had very good extreme rules matches w/ everyone from Sabu to Kane to Undertaker. The reason you see him slowing down now is very simple. He's 7 foot, 500 pounds and he's been going harder than any champion in the company since July 4th. Not only has he wrestled a full ECW schedule and been in 10-13 minute main-events every other week, he's also been a fixture on Raw and SD at times. He wrestled the Punjabi Prison match in July...a HIAC in September...a few tag matches on SD...made a few more appearances on Raw...all the while going thru tables and taking kendo stick shots and wrestling big house show main-events against quicker wrestlers...

Big Show is on the short list for WWE MVP this year...


Now, after he loses the title to RVD at D2D, he needs to take some much needed time off...


Agreed.



Quote:
 


As for the ECW brand he's helped carry...the ECW show is the best wrestling show on TV each week. It's simple...it's not complicated like a 20-man reverse battle royal with 6 guys winning to face 3 guys later and 1 guy who wins a match to get a bye to face one of the 3 guys who beat the 6 guys...(TNA)...

Each week, you get a CM Punk match, which is always good, yet short. Then, you get a good main-event. Whether it be Show vs. Sabu, Holly or Test vs. RVD, or RVD vs. SHow in a uniquely booked ladder match, this brand delivers...

Taking it off TV shouldn't and hopefully won't happen...and I really don't agree with Q on this one...I do, at times, forget to watch, but life is busy and it's hard to work more than one wrestling show into my schedule. SD certainly won't find it's way into my life anytime soon, but ECW frequently can and will. And why should you watch? The best wrestling match of the week...



Why not have these handful of guys you and everyone else names on Smackdown? RVD, Sabu, CM Punk, Big Show, Hardcore Holly. Who do you have on ECW that really matters past these same handful of names we see and hear every week? Let's be honest about it.



You don't need a "third brand" to do everything you just spelled out. They were already way too watered down for a while with just two. Three is ridiculous right now.



Both RAW and SD both need help these days. Dissolve this ECW brand, send the best guys where they're needed most and voila. These arguments can do either way, but in any event: I'll try and give this thing another good chance.

Even Test could fill out a midcard slot on SD somewhere nicely. Or even RAW. Mike Knox? Who cares? Put him in a tag team with someone on either RAW or SD. You can sift out a few other guys and you suddenly would have two really nice looking RAW and SD situations.


^^ All of the above, of course, doesn't matter without...wait for it...good booking and good writing.





EDIT: That's the first time I've done a topic split. I hope it worked out alright.
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Chad Matthews
CMV1
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It worked out fine...good idea to make a separate thread...

You don't get good booking or writing on Raw and SD...at least not consistently...

ECW booking is simple and solid. They accomplish more in one hour than Raw and SD arguably do in 4. They push their mid-card, they push their main-event, and they highlight new guys. It's obvious to me that Heyman is booking that show...

You take all those guys on ECW and move them to SD or Raw, then only Big Show, RVD, and Sabu (and maybe CM Punk) are going to get used.

They aren't going to get the chance to put out good main-events each week...

They aren't going to get consistently pushed...

They'll be under-utilized as they always were on the other shows...
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Q-BZ

Admin
^^ Can't disagree with any of that.
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Snowman
The Snowman Cometh
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Because as we have seen 2 million times before, if your name is not Cena, Trips, HBK, or Batista....you are not going to get a push. Cena got it cause he can talk. Edge got it simply for being a dedicated employee for years. Batista is a genetic freak, and trips and hbk....well you know. The fact is CM Punk will be wasted like Matt Hardy, Hardcore Holly will go back to Velocity matches online, Sandman will eventually be put on Heat or something, Test put in some stupid feud with Tatanka or someone, and Big Show would go back to being the side show attraction.

Bottomline, you need this brand as a spring board for talent, you need them to build momentum in ECW along with a fan base, then when they are big enough send them in...

Q, your argument is the rosters are thin....but in actuality they arent that thin. It is writing teams that are thin. Each week you have talent doing pointless heat and velocity shows. Raw doesnt use Venis, Haas, Benjamin, Viscera....they burry Masters, they do nothing with Carlito, they could have several tag teams if they would drop the gimmicks and utilize the talent. Smackdown is better at it, however they need to combine some of the middle carders and put them in tag teams.

The rosters arent thin....the writing is.
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Q-BZ

Admin
^^ The writing is far and away the most critical problem, yes.

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Crim
The 2nd era of Y2J has begun
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The rosters arent thin....the writing is.


^^Couldn't agree more.
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Chad Matthews
CMV1
Global Moderator
Many columnists in the past have preached that those that complain about bad writing should go apply to be WWE writers and improve it themselves...

Well, if the qualifications to become one didn't defy logic, then I'm sure any of us on this board would do so...and even by following the most simplistic booking, could turn out a better product than we currently get (I mean, c'mon...any of us could book the way Heyman is booking right now...and it's great in my opinion)...

Thus, I'm 100% with Snowman that bad writing is at the very core of every WWE problem. And it's another reason ECW is better...

I'd be willing to bet that the only real wrestling fan amongst the top WWE writers not named McMahon is Paul Heyman, the booker for ECW...
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Q-BZ

Admin
^^ All true!
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Snowman
The Snowman Cometh
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Honestly,

Let's look at ECW,

CM PUNK: Hottest commodity going right now, the ovations he gets are amazing

RVD: Putting on solid main events

Big Show: See RVD

HArdcore: Has been outstanding thus far

Test: ECW lit a fire under his ass

THorne: always inventive in the ring

Dupree: Coming around, putting on better matches

Balls: Big fan following, good for hardcore fans

Sandman: Getting re-introduced to the everyday wrestling fan, will soon have a big following

Sabu: I believe is currently on and off the show due to his punishment from a few months ago, but when he gets back, look for him to have the title.
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Chad Matthews
CMV1
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Yeah, I'm pretty excited about what ECW will do in the coming months.

I think the first thing they'll obviously do is put the belt back on Rob Van Dam, and I think RVD vs. Test at the Royal Rumble in an Extreme Rules match could be on the horizon.

It's the idea of Punk vs. Van Dam that gets my blood pumping.

I think I'd hold off on that until ECW One Night Stand '07...

I had originally dug that for Wrestlemania, but I'm thinking more along the lines of RVD vs. Sabu at Mania, w/ ECW being involved in two other matches. Hopefully, Punk gets to show his stuff on the big cards starting w/ Mania 23.
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Snowman
The Snowman Cometh
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Im still big on the idea of Punk winning the TV title at the december ppv, and having a title vs title match at mania....punk vs rvd
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Chad Matthews
CMV1
Global Moderator
Yeah, I'd love to see it, but you gotta think it won't get it's proper billing at Mania...

Look at the SD matches last year...not one of them got more than 10-minutes....

Punk vs. RVD at ECW ONS would be the main-event and would get plenty of time to be a MOTY candidate, and a passing of the torch moment...
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Snowman
The Snowman Cometh
Global Moderator
Chad Matthews
Oct 30 2006, 01:14 AM
Yeah, I'd love to see it, but you gotta think it won't get it's proper billing at Mania...

Look at the SD matches last year...not one of them got more than 10-minutes....

Punk vs. RVD at ECW ONS would be the main-event and would get plenty of time to be a MOTY candidate, and a passing of the torch moment...

But will they do it again? ECW is it's own brand now.....
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Q-BZ

Admin
Snowman
Oct 29 2006, 09:31 PM
Chad Matthews
Oct 30 2006, 01:14 AM
Yeah, I'd love to see it, but you gotta think it won't get it's proper billing at Mania...

Look at the SD matches last year...not one of them got more than 10-minutes....

Punk vs. RVD at ECW ONS would be the main-event and would get plenty of time to be a MOTY candidate, and a passing of the torch moment...

But will they do it again? ECW is it's own brand now.....

Yeah, but I can't imagine ECW not getting a slot or two, at least, at Mania. Three brands, right?

I like your all's ideas I'm reading here. Hell, you all are making me want to try and watch it again more consistently. ;)
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Snowman
The Snowman Cometh
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im telling you...they need to build Punk up Goldberg style, just too damn good to lose...make him like 100 something and 0 going into Mania....
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Snowman
The Snowman Cometh
Global Moderator
At the ECW show in Milwaukee tonight, Paul Heyman made a stunning announcement. At December to Dismember, Rob Van Dam will receive his title opportunity, but it will come as part of the first-ever Extreme Elimination Chamber

HOLY SHIT!!!

Full story:

At an ECW show today in Milwaukee, Wis., ECW’s “Messiah” Paul Heyman declared that Rob Van Dam will, in fact, receive his ECW World Title opportunity at December to Dismember. However, Heyman also made the monumental announcement that RVD’s title match will take place in the first-ever Extreme Elimination Chamber.

RVD earned his chance at the championship last week in a Ladder Match and, as announced on ECW.com earlier this week, Van Dam selected ECW’s next pay-per-view on Dec. 3 as the setting for his title opportunity. However, the stipulations for that contest fall under Heyman’s own judgment.

Thus, ECW World Champion Big Show will defend his gold against five other Extremists within the lethal chamber structure. In addition to the Extreme Giant and RVD, the remaining four participants will be determined through a series of qualifying matches that will take place over the next few weeks – the first of which can be seen Tuesday night on ECW on Sci Fi.

The only thing more dangerous than the chamber itself will be the throng of hardcore competitors enclosed in its massive walls. Who will qualify for this unprecedented encounter? Exactly what awaits RVD, Big Show and the other Extremists at December to Dismember?

Tune in to ECW on Sci Fi to learn more about this unique and extreme event and be sure to catch December to Dismember on Dec. 3 on pay-per-view.

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Chad Matthews
CMV1
Global Moderator
Wow...As I sat here wondering how the WWE planned on selling ECW to people just one week after Survivor Series, I got my answer...

Extreme Elimination Chamber? That's how...

Holy shit, indeed!
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Snowman
The Snowman Cometh
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and to make it better....i believe animal and i are going....JACKPOT!!!!

here are my predictions: RVD, Big Show, Sabu, Sandman, Hardocore, Test
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