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| Genesis: Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe 11/19; The Revolution Will Be Televised | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 26 2006, 06:28 PM (450 Views) | |
| Stinger | Oct 26 2006, 06:28 PM Post #1 |
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The Admin is Here!
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Posted Image Posted Image |
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| Jules | Oct 27 2006, 10:25 AM Post #2 |
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Bad Mofo'
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I cannot believe they are already fucking doing this fued. This is the biggest match they will probably ever have and I wouldn't have mind waiting up to or over a year for it if it was booked right... But now it seems they're just gonna piss it away to pop a buyrate as quick as they can. Some people shouldn't be allowed to run wrestling promotions, plain and simple. |
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| Q-BZ | Oct 27 2006, 10:33 AM Post #3 |
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I can.
As they always do. Last days WCW all the way, in more ways than one. They're desperate and they're throwing the hail marys. I disagree with Stinger on this concept that they're trying to be like WCW was in the early 90's of slowly building up. Their ratings suck. 0.8 is like the best they can do. Most of their shows suck. Excepting a handful of people, their roster is mediocre at best. They're not on their way up, folks. They're on their way down to extinction at this rate. It doesn't matter how much money is potentially there or anything else if they: 1.) Don't use it. 2.) Have people that actually know and care about wrestling calling the shots with said money. TNA is an abysmal failure right off of these two critical issues, right off the bat. Everything else is gravy. They just aren't going to last too much longer at this rate. Steady 0.8 cable ratings, at best, speak for themselves.
You are right, but: It's TNA. ... Do I really need to say anything else? Surely you (and anyone else) can't be surprised. |
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| Stinger | Oct 27 2006, 11:35 AM Post #4 |
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Well, if TNA's ratings don't start to increase after their move to primetime Q, then I'll tend to agree with you. As it stands now, they're on at 11/10 on a Thursday night and aren't really a known promotion. I'd say holding steady is good for them, at least they aren't losing viewers. They're not gaining, but not losing either. Jarrett is going away for a few months, and that's a good thing. Sting being champion is kinda good/bad, good because it isn't Jarrett and a had a year of buildup, bad because well it's an older guy. I don't see TNA going away anytime soon, not 2007, not 2008.
They are slowly building up. They're slowly getting some big to known names from WWE. Last days WCW weren't getting any big names, let alone WWE guys. WCW of the mid 90's did. Last days WCW weren't having big matches on PPV with little build. Yet in 1994 WCW rushed right into a money match with hogan vs. Flair in Hogan's debut. Of course Angle/Joe isn't nearly as big a deal as Flair/Hogan, but there's not much difference. Now I DO have a problem with Joe/Angle being done this early though, despite it being a match I REALLY want to see. One of three things is going to happen, and none of them are good. 1.) Joe finally loses. But all this says is a WWE guy comes in and defeats our biggest and best star. 2.) Kurt Angle loses. And this makes Angle look weak from losing his first match, despite it being a loss to Joe. 3.) The match ends in some sort of DQ/screwjob. And the fans are screwed out of the 5 star match it could be. For those reasons, it is WAY to early for this match to be happening. |
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| Q-BZ | Oct 27 2006, 01:12 PM Post #5 |
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This goes back to my earliest points in that TNA is dropping the ball thread. Horrible shows times = lack of exposure/deliberate sabotage even that's not the intent. "Known promotion?" By now, aren't they known enough by the core base that it would count with? What more does it take to get "known?"
We'll see. 2008 is about as late as I give them if there aren't some very serious and dramatic changes.
All true, but was WCW languising with 0.8 ratings and horrible show times and lack of exposure and "being known" like TNA is right now? We're talking about the same points in their lifecycles. I honestly can't remember.
Agreed 100 percent, and I think it will be number three. |
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| Chad Matthews | Oct 29 2006, 11:34 AM Post #6 |
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CMV1
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I think it's obvious that TNA is going nowhere...but I mean that in a way that suggests they will stay and be around for a long time. This promotion will grow. They stole Christian from WWE...and while he's only had marginal success in TNA, he still had a good enough run in WWE to make people notice that he left. Angle leaving is different, though. Angle is very well known amongst fans...and if they run the hell out of an Angle vs. Joe promo, I think they are likely to get some new fans to tune in. Thus, I think Genesis is a very key PPV for the next six months to a year for TNA... Angle vs. Joe being done now is a calculated risk. They go for it now and they attempt to capitalize on WWE fans who have Angle fresh on their minds tuning in to see what he's doing. It's like WCW w/ Hall and Nash showing up. WWE fans tuned in to see what they were doing there... As for booking Joe vs. Angle, who cares who wins? If those guys put on a 5-star classic, it won't matter who wins. Remember, the type of fans that will watch Genesis are smarks...and smarks want to see classics. They have a FANTASTIC match...then they'll keep those new fans (maybe)... |
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| Jules | Oct 29 2006, 12:25 PM Post #7 |
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Bad Mofo'
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For the WCW comparisons... Any time a company starts making bad decision after bad decision they are always ‘mimicking’ WCW according to the IWC. WCW seems to be the great parable of wrestling for many people. Everyone wants to be like it was when it was hot, but nobody wants to do what it was doing in the days preceding the fall. And to be sure there are a great many lessons that can be learned from studying the rise and fall of that promotion. The fact remains though, that WCW would still be in business and on the air right now had Ted Turner not momentarily given up control of his television stations allowing for one non-wrestling fan to shitcan all of WCW’s TV time (thus making the company worthless to any buyer except Vince McMahon,) and by this point they might even be back up to where they were. Are there parallels between TNA and WCW? Yes. Are there parallels between WWE and WCW? Of course. They are all wrestling companies, and are run by the same small circle of promoters, families, and businessmen that has been in power since way back in the original territorial days. Meaning they come from the same system, so of course a lot of their practices are bound to similar no matter how much they profess to be completely original. Now for TNA, I don't think it's going anywhere. I don't think it's going up anytime soon, and I don't think it's going down anytime soon. When all is said and done I don't think people will look at TNA as 'the great failure' but rather just another in the endless series of wrestling promotions that came and went. Now, if they can prove me wrong either way, I'd like to see it. |
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| Q-BZ | Oct 29 2006, 12:27 PM Post #8 |
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^^ Great post! I think both you and Chad made some really good points here. Obviously TNA can be more than what they are if they can get past Jarret and some of the stupid politics backstage. And open the wallet! |
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| Chad Matthews | Oct 29 2006, 05:43 PM Post #9 |
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CMV1
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What we could be seeing, in all actuality, is a return to the territorial promotions. Outside of the WWE, which has a monopoly on the entire industry and isn't likely to lose it with the amount of money they have, the business is ripe for alternative. That alternative could bring back territories. Right now, TNA is attempting to branch out, but if they would just stick to the southwest, they'd be just fine. TNA would be smart to build their promotion first and then branch it out to the rest of the US...not build their promotion by branching it out to the rest of the US. ROH is run out of the northeast isn't it? Aren't those two promotions in many ways different? Is ROH not more the cutting edge, smaller man's world? With a Pure Wrestling title and things of that nature, while TNA is more a mixture b/t that and the WWE? Watch out for territories to creep up in the next ten years. Those guys can slowly build and then, with the right financial backing and the right cut-throat, ballsy wrestling promoter, make a run at the WWE... |
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| Q-BZ | Oct 29 2006, 05:56 PM Post #10 |
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^^ Wow, a return to territories could be a great thing for pro wrestling. I'm all for it! |
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| Snowman | Oct 31 2006, 04:25 PM Post #11 |
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The Snowman Cometh
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Hey, expansion and competition is always good. |
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| Stinger | Nov 19 2006, 10:59 AM Post #12 |
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The Admin is Here!
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Well, Genesis is tonight, and I must say it's a very good looking card. Most likely, this will be added to the DVD collection. |
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| Chad Matthews | Nov 19 2006, 11:07 AM Post #13 |
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CMV1
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Yeah, I gotta admit I'm tempted... It does look good... |
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| Snowman | Nov 19 2006, 01:58 PM Post #14 |
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The Snowman Cometh
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How do ya'll watch that shit? Seriously, aside from 4 bright spots on the whole roster, is a wasteland for wrestling. |
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| Q-BZ | Nov 19 2006, 03:10 PM Post #15 |
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To that end, how does anyone actually pay MONEY to watch this shit? |
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| The Fallen Angel | Nov 19 2006, 03:22 PM Post #16 |
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I watched it for two months and it just bored me there was about 3 to 4 wrestlers I liked and that was it. |
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| Stinger | Nov 19 2006, 03:28 PM Post #17 |
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Abyss AJ Styles Alex Shelley Austin Starr Chris Harris Chris Sabin Christian Cage "Fallen Angel" Christopher Daniels Hernandez Homicide James Storm Jay Lethal Karazian Kevin Nash Kurt Angle Petey Williams Samoa Joe Senshi Sonjay Dutt Sting ^^ Reason enough to watch for me. Why do any of us watch RAW when it sucks on a weekly basis, yet skip Smackdown when it's the better wrestling show? Yeah TNA sucks, just as much as RAW, but there's no denying they have one hell of a roster, filled with many of my Indy favorites. I can look at the Genesis card and easily say that on paper, it owns 95% of the WWE ppvs's this year (on paper). I'll have no problem dropping $15 on this. |
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| Q-BZ | Nov 19 2006, 03:32 PM Post #18 |
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Actually I'm barely watching either these days. It's been like that for several months.
For a DVD that you can own forever, yes. |
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| Chad Matthews | Nov 19 2006, 03:57 PM Post #19 |
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CMV1
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They have FAR more than 4 bright spots...their wrestling talent roster is great... Their booking sucks, though... Yeah, I lost the urge...i'm hoping people put the Angle-Joe match in the wrestling match thread |
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| Snowman | Nov 19 2006, 04:01 PM Post #20 |
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The Snowman Cometh
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Here is the problem....specifically with the X Division and the Indy talent. It's a spot fest. And what happens when you have too many spot fest matches? It wears old....that's why the MITB matches are always so solid, cause you get to see guys do spots they usually wouldnt do. As for Raw, Im a bigger fan of ECW and Smackdown then RAW because they feature actual wrestling! TNA has shit writers, shit bookers, and shit main eventers. Yes Joe is good, Yes Angle is good...but that's it. AJ is back down to tag and X-Division, so is Daniels..... |
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| KOTR | Nov 19 2006, 09:14 PM Post #21 |
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King of the Ring
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I aks myself that every day. |
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| Stinger | Nov 19 2006, 09:35 PM Post #22 |
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The Admin is Here!
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LMAO! Sting and Abyss wrestle a normal singles match, yet use steel chairs, thumbtacks and barbed wire tables. Sting hits the referree, and is then... wait for it... DQ'ed!!! And since the NWA World Championship can change hands on a DQ (except for when Jarrett gets DQ'ed), Abyss is the NEW NWA Champion. Nevermind the fact that he was made to look weak by tapping out to Kurt Angle, tapping out to Sting during the match, and getting his ass handed to him by a 40+ year old man, he still gets the title put on him because of a DQ. :lol: LMAO! Welcome back Vince Russo ;) And Kurt Angle makes Samoa Joe TAP in 13:33! :rolleyes: Wow. Unbelievable. And to think I said I would pay $15 for the DVD. Seriously, after all the hype, "The Dream Match of the Decade" only gets 13:33 and ends with Angle making the unbeatable monster tap out? What a way to put over your homegrown superstar. "WWE is far superior than us"... that's what having Kurt Angle defeat Samoa Joe in 13 minutes says. Fuck TNA. If Joe is a little bit smart, he'll take the WWE payoff and jump the first chance he gets. Un-fucking-believable. :mad: |
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| Chad Matthews | Nov 19 2006, 09:58 PM Post #23 |
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CMV1
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Yeah, that's some pretty wild booking... From what I've read, those two matches and the AJ-Christian match were worth watching, but I'm just so shocked at the booking decisions they are making... I mean, on the one hand, I'm happy that Abyss won the NWA title...it's about damn time and Sting, no offense Mr. Smith, had no business being the champion. On the other hand, to have a title change via DQ is so damn stupid...it's so inconsistent with everything that they did with Jarrett... As for Joe vs. Angle...I'm again torn because I think it was smart to book it so that they don't give everything away with one match. But, you can't just wrestle for 13-minutes when you hype the match as the Dream Match of the Decade and send Angle around the country hyping it as a sure fire MOTY. I'm sure it was great for those 13-minutes, but 13-minutes isn't enough time to be MOTY. Also, it's questionable booking to see Angle get the big win. I mean, there goes the eventual undefeated Christian vs. undefeated Joe match that I thought they'd build to. I had in my mind that they'd just have Joe win with a dusty finish. Oh well... Booking in TNA doesn't make sense to me, which is one of the reasons I don't watch... |
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| Stinger | Nov 19 2006, 10:13 PM Post #24 |
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The Admin is Here!
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Hell Chad, I'm happy Abyss won the title too. Sting winning it was that brief mark-out moment I'd have if Flair won it again, but then it's "okay, now get it off of him quickly." It's just a stupid way to book it, that's my problem with it. How do have a normal match where weapons are used and then end that match with a DQ? It's total bullshit, and it's pretty much because Sting isn't going to put anyone over. They've made Abyss out to be a pussy, winning the title by DQ (after getting your ass kicked) doesn't make him look any stronger or like the credible champion he should be. Even the TNA marks at the un-Official TNA Forums are calling bullshit on the Joe/Angle match and stating that it wasn't worth the money. To make matters worse, Joe tapped cleanly in 13 minutes. There was no after match beat down, nothing by Angle refusing a rematch. What's the point of a rematch? Folks have seen it now, all 13 minutes of it (never mind the fact that they still had 20 minutes of air time left when they chose to end the show). It was a wasted match. The whole damn thing sounded like a pretty bad PPV, outside of maybe 3 matches that were average to good. Even the TNA fans are saying that it's one of the worse TNA PPV's this year, some even saying the past 2 years. Who would've thought THEY of all people would be saying that? I sure as hell wouldn't. Joe has wrestled what many would consider the best wrestler today, American Dragon Bryan Danielson, in 60 minute matches in ROH. Yet he can't even last 13 minutes against a Kurt Angle in questionable health? Horrible booking, all over the show. On a side note, the company whose slogan is now "We Are Wrestling" closed the show out with the © 2006 TNA Entertainment instead of TNA Wrestling LLC. like they usually do. |
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| Chad Matthews | Nov 19 2006, 10:17 PM Post #25 |
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CMV1
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I don't know man...I'm hearing some great things about the Angle-Joe match from a strictly match quality perspective. I look forward to watching it. But, this is all coming from someone who didn't pay to see that. If I had paid to see that, I'd likely feel a whole lot different. I'd be pissed, too. The point of the rematch is so Joe can get his win back. But seriously, that was definitely dumb booking...they needed that match to be really special...and apparently it was just a really good match... |
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2:23 AM Jul 11