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| Team Fortress 2; Latest Update: "Catch-Up Comic" | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 15 2011, 07:20 PM (3,266 Views) | |
| -Aroxys- | Jan 30 2012, 06:09 AM Post #16 |
GALACTUS
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Alright, let me get a few things straight here: One, I tend to play as an ambush Pyro, not a W+M1. The reason I think of the minute damage boost as being one of the main selling points is that the window of opportunity for getting the guaranteed crits is absolutely laughable, especially when you consider that the Spy (Yes, I know that this is his job, but bear with me) has an absurd window for his backstabs. Around 140* behind the target or so, and you know that that range is responsible for the many side and facestabs that have occured. The Backburner, by comparison, has something like a 60* slice, if that. The fact that the Pyro has no real mobility options nor the ability to disguise or hide means that you're not going to get as much use out of those crits unless there's a huge firefight and you haven't been seen yet. Yes, the base damage difference between this and the stock flamethrower is laughable, but this is a game where even a measly ten percent boost in damage can mean the difference between making a difference or not accomplishing anything. And yes, I do agree with the afterburn deal. Too many classes can render this useless, medium or large health packs do the same, and god forbid if there's any water around. Personally though, I'd prefer to see a weapon that applies a Greek Fire-style fuel rather than the ignited spray of pressurized gas. (Pretty sure that's the Flamethrower's fuel.) On the flip side, I heard that the only reason something like that doesn't exist is because it's hard to make it work right. Sandvich: Maybe it's just me, but there are times where it makes more sense to just take the 50% heal and try to plough through whoever was attacking you instead of leaving yourself open for attack. This is pretty much critical to Heavies who, for example, might take side-paths through a Payload map to screw up enemy defenses to help the team, or pick unconventional angles of attack on other maps. Situational? Maybe. But again it makes a world of difference, especially if there are no Medics around. And yes, I do know about the Equalizer's origins and how it was suggested that it only boost damage as the Soldier loses health. But if you take a moment to think about it, there's a bit of a problem: The Soldier is about as slow as the Heavy, and faces the exact same problems as a Backburner Pyro, except he has to try and take enemies out with a melee weapon with such little health that a solitary stray minigun bullet at mid-range can put him out of his misery. Making it so Medics can heal him and removing the speed bonus makes this weapon go from being useful in general to more situational than most people would like. It doesn't say as such, but I'm pretty sure that at full health the Equalizer does less damage than the stock Shovel, thus meaning that if you stay at high-full health, this isn't the weapon for you. And I kinda don't appreciate the condescending tone. I've been playing this long enough that I know every single primary use and strategy by heart, even if I don't agree with those tactics myself at times. The way you outline the Equalizer is in the manner of a suicide bomber: You intentionally hurt yourself badly enough that the effects have some meaning, try to beat the shit out of anyone you can, then die when they figure out you're there or when more people come in from the respawn, if applicable. Personally, if I want to do this I'll go Demoman, equip the Ullapool Caber, and sticky jump to where I need to go. Sure, I'll have a 100% chance of dying, but at the same time I can be sure to take someone out. In fact, this tends to bring up another obvious point: Why put yourself in such a bad position to begin with? Melee tends to be situational to begin with, and intentionally diving in to melee when you still have rockets doesn't make sense. |
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| -Jacquerel- | Jan 30 2012, 11:47 AM Post #17 |
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Master
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Use the new space flamethrower instead then, you get guaranteed crits from all directions. Your backburner hasn't been nerfed at all, it is just that the basic flamethrower has been buffed (which it needed because it was objectively useless). You'll be just as effective now as you ever were. The degreaser absolutely also needed a nerf because there was almost no reason to use anything else over it. Even ambush pyro works better with the axe. And yes, there were reasons to take the 50% heal. The actual point was that there was almost never any reason not to take the 50% heal. The fact that heavies were carrying an instant medpack around with them was far too much and I am glad it is changing. It was far too strong compared to the shotgun and anything any other class could do to heal themselves (especially considering the fact that it is the class with most health). It wasn't situational it was almost the only time anyone used the thing, which made it much too strong. If you have soldier mobility problems... learn to rocket jump. It hurts you but the equalizer also doesn't speed you up unless you're damage (and again, it was a weapon that made every other option pointless which is a bad design). Edited by Jacquerel, Jan 30 2012, 11:52 AM.
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| -Aroxys- | Jan 30 2012, 06:05 PM Post #18 |
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GALACTUS
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I've been working on getting that new Flamethrower, and the only reason I don't have it yet is because items haven't been dropping as often as I'd like. Anywho, the part I have a problem with isn't that the Flamethrower is getting a buff so much as this potential change makes the Backburner totally pointless. The stock Flamethrower (assuming the beta changes are implemented) now deals the same base damage and can airblast far more often, while the Phlogistinator (I think that's right anyway) has the stats to let you be a far more effective ambush Pyro with a little prep work. Yeah, there's the fact that the 'Mmmph!' effect is announced with a taunt, but for the sake of making your targets go 'Oh shit!' it works perfectly. By making it so the stock 'thrower and the Backburner deal the same damage, you effectively lose any possible reason to use that weapon since there are vastly superior options that are relatively easy to get. As far as the Degreaser goes, I suppose there really isn't that much of a change going on with it. The other throwers gain damage and it's held back, and it's usually a safe bet that if someone's using that that they have a weapon capable of taking advantage of it ready to yank out and cut you down with, so it's unlikely that anyone would try to kill you with just this anyway. The Sandvich issue is still something I don't quite get since I tend to play as a Sandvich Heavy and have about as much trouble killing one as anyone else. The other issue is that the base shotgun is a joke compared to any of the Miniguns because they cover the exact same damage range, and a competent Heavy will keep an eye on how much ammo he's burning through. If you play well, there's little to no need to draw the Shotgun, rendering it next to worthless. The Sandvich is simply the better option. Why do you think there's only one unique shotgun for the Heavy and three different foods for him? As for the Equalizer argument, I really fail to see how the Equalizer is an option that outclasses everything else. If I want to go for offensive melee, then I pick the Half-Zatoichi and learn to pick my fights. If I want to go faster, I'll grab the Disciplinary Action before heading out. The fact that you have to be damaged before the Equalizer grants its benefits makes me think of it more along the lines of a desperation attack or an escape tool rather than an overpowered melee weapon, and if anyone's shooting at you from a distance it won't matter anyway. Yeah, you could sneak up on someone, but again, the Soldier has no way to do so discreetly. |
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| -Jacquerel- | Jan 30 2012, 11:51 PM Post #19 |
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Master
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The half zatoichi is a joke weapon, and the disciplinary action is probably now going to replace the equaliser just because everyone likes running fast and because melee is often close to useless (this is also a bad thing). No offence but I don't think they are balancing the game around you, in more competitive gaming the sandwich has always been far more powerful than it should have been for the heavy because the ability to instantly recover 50% of your health as the healthiest class in the game is a big deal. The fact that you also don't know how to use the shotgun (it requires no spin up and hits enemies further away, good for fleeing enemies, distant enemies or when you are ambushed) does not help your argument much. It is far from useless but it was greatly outclassed by the ability to instantly restore your own health. I really don't want to say "I think you don't understand these changes because you might need a bit more practice at the game" but it's hard to avoid Edited by Jacquerel, Jan 30 2012, 11:53 PM.
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| -Aroxys- | Jan 31 2012, 01:27 AM Post #20 |
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And this is why I can't take what you're saying entirely seriously. The Half-Zatoichi has some severe limitations, yes, but there's the fact that the payoff for actually killing someone with this weapon makes the risk worth it in some cases. There's also the matter of it (unless I'm horribly mistaken and the Soldier's has less reach) having the same range as the Eyelander, letting you hit from further away. Intended as a joke? Perhaps. Yet it still has its perks. The point you bring up is something of a point of contention in itself: Not everyone fights competitively here. I'm pretty sure that's where a lot of the arguing comes from, the simple fact that there's more than one style of play and that the changes can't please everyone. I will hold on to my belief that the Sandvich is fine the way it is though, and I am willing to drop that argument. As for the shotgun comment... I've used the shotgun on the Heavy before and found that it just doesn't work for me half the time. This isn't a matter of me not knowing how to use it so much as I've developed a playstyle that doesn't require it, which is clearly different than how you play, yet once again I'm willing to chalk it up as a simple difference between us and leave it at that. And for the record, I've been at this for a couple years now. A Ghastly Gibus n00b I ain't. |
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| -Jacquerel- | Jan 31 2012, 02:46 AM Post #21 |
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Master
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Any weapon that requires you to melee kill someone to put it away is categorically a joke weapon I have no problem with joke weapons and I use them regularly but the game should not be balanced around joke weapons I honestly can't see why that is hard to understand and that is also why I think this discussion is not worth continuing, these balance changes are things that a vast number of the community has been rightly calling for over a very long period of time and if you can't understand why already then there's not much I can say to you It is fine that not everyone plays competitively but the people who do are the ones to whom balance is important and thus the ones that the game needs to be balanced around And in that area of play the sandwich, the equalizer and the enforcer have reigned king for far too long (also please don't conflate time played with understanding of how game works) Edited by Jacquerel, Jan 31 2012, 02:49 AM.
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| -Ekoi- | Feb 1 2012, 07:38 AM Post #22 |
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As a Punching Heavy, I will be upset if this lunchbox change makes it into the main game. |
 Ekoi.deviantArt.com
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| -Ruris- | Feb 3 2012, 06:39 PM Post #23 |
Master
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BLOG UPDATE: TF2012!: What the TF2 Team has in store for 2012. http://teamfortress.com/post.php?id=7254 TL;DR version: - The TF2 Team is working on a secret project that is not a hat or a map - The Steam Workshop is getting its own blog - Meet the Pyro will be released - The Second Annual Saxxy Awards will commence |
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| -Ruris- | Feb 15 2012, 06:37 PM Post #24 |
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Yesterday, Valve made a Valentines Day mini-patch, in which players could buy a 100 dollar item to give to another player. By which I mean players can now spend 100 dollars to spam the entire community's screen with stupid pop ups.
PREPARE TO BE UPSET! There's also a couple new items: A promo knife for the Spy and a misc item for the Demoman, several other promo items have been made craftable, updates to CP_GravelPit for some reason, and a new style for the Brown Bomber hat. |
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| -Emerald Spirit- | Feb 16 2012, 12:12 AM Post #25 |
Quartermaster and Field Commander of the Baneblade Chapter
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Dude he whined about that on Skype for like a half hour after the patch notes came out. The tears, they were delicious. |
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A desolate place, without any trace It's only the cold wind I feel It's me that I spite, as I stand up and fight The only thing I know for real There will be bloodshed! | |
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| -Ruris- | Jun 20 2012, 04:07 AM Post #26 |
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Master
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I hate to bump up a topic, but... There was a patch today that added some weird "crafting" items to the game. Related to Meet the Pyro? Possibly. Mysterious? Definitely. |
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| -Aroxys- | Jun 20 2012, 01:37 PM Post #27 |
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GALACTUS
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I actually freaked out a bit when I first got a Barn Door Plank because the update came out while I was still playing, and thus did not have the files to display it. Suddenly getting a block of purple and black checkerboard was rather worrisome. |
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| -Jacquerel- | Jun 20 2012, 10:11 PM Post #28 |
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Master
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I got two barn door planks and a fish |
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| -Kay G. Radley- | Jun 21 2012, 02:13 AM Post #29 |
is really Sol Badguy
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Got a fish and a couple pieces of lint. Planks and lint, I can see being connected to fire, but a goldfish? :P |
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| -Ruris- | Jun 21 2012, 03:52 AM Post #30 |
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Master
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Fishsticks. |
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