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Gamer Discussions; Discuss the industry and community.
Topic Started: Feb 10 2011, 02:20 AM (58,898 Views)
-Jacquerel-
Master
[ *  *  *  * ]
Honestly, while at times I fully sympathise with what people are doing with DRM (they make stupid decisions but it is because they are misguided, not because they are malicious) I think if I ever do end up making any of these decisions myself I'd have to throw the stuff out the window too.
There really isn't any point to it. There is no such thing as unbreakable DLC, and the harder you make it to crack (to no effect because the pirates crack it anyway) the more it annoys your legitimate paying customers. There is literally no benefit.
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Psycho Werekitsune
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I think that if companies want to put DRM in games, they should at least find a better and more entertaining way of doing it.
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-Blacklightning-
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BL;DR
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On the subject of multiplayer and game longetivity, I had a different interpretation of the problem.

See, because I'm an ozzie and most of the people I ever get to play online are yanks or brits, I generally have a pretty hard time of finding an online game that works with a tolerable amount of lag to go by. So the obvious solution is "well BL, why don't you just play people closer to you, ya ranty bastard?"... and see, that's just the thing. Nobody fucking allows it anymore. Back in the N64/Cube era it was perfectly reasonable to expect all four controllers to be used for most multiplayer games, splitscreen or otherwise. Nowadays, the only games off the top of my head that still do that is the Halo series, which means for the most part that I've got three spare X360 controllers just sitting around collecting dust. Now, toning down the game's graphics to allow it to be rendered four seperate times per screen really isn't that difficult, and most splitscreen gamers can tolerate a bit of multiplayer frame lag if it means a chance to fuck around with mates in the same room.

But granted, not all multiplayer games can really be optimized very well for it, so if it's a game like Saints, fair enough. That would mean having to buy multiple fucking consoles and games for the opportunity to play with people in the same building as you - that's not always a bad thing though, if you're not the one buying duplicates of everything. Have everyone buy a 360 and a copy of that game you like, and you can just throw a LAN party whenever you want... right? Umm, no. Despite it being trivially easy to implement, a LAN option for multiplayer gaming remains mysteriously absent from every multiplayer title I could ever want to play, again, sans Halo (it's worth noting that I grew out of said series not long after Halo 3). Now the motive for this is pretty obvious - they want more people to sign up to their paid online service for the opportunity to play with friends so that they get more money off it - but this short-sightedness costs greatly on the game's lasting value because the servers won't be up forever (depending on the game, of course - for example, what I remember of Shadowrun's longetivity lasted mere months before the servers were shut down). A game like Doom or Quake is still playable today because with the right tools, you can simply pop it into multiple computers, link them together via router and fuck each other's shit up, whereas nowadays once the servers shut down, you can kiss any chance of getting a good run out of a game goodbye, sometimes destroying the game in its entirety if it's solely dependent on multiplayer interactions. And even while the game is still running, it's to say nothing of how ridiculously inefficient it is to have to connect to a distant server for the privalege of playing someone in the very next room.

Then as if self-sabotaging the game's longetivity by removing LAN functions wasn't enough, recently we've hit the absolute cieling of absurdity - online passes. What's an online pass? It's DLC that lets you play the game online. DLC that enables you to play online. So in addition to the game lasting about as long as the servers are still running, you have to buy the game completely new close to the launch date (assuming the retailer isn't an absolute sleaze like Gamestop and stealing even the DLC codes that new buyers are obliged to), otherwise you're fucked right from square one. You can't just tell a friend a few years after release "hey, this game was pretty cool and you haven't played it yet, maybe you should buy it so we can digitally stab each other sometime", because by that point all the new DLC codes will already have been used, and gamers won't see any incentive to fork out another 5-10 bucks for something they were already entitled to just by virtue of owning a hard copy of the game. Even more ridiculous still was the case with Saints 3, which did have a LAN function but required an online pass for it. How the fuck does that even work?

tl;dr, a game that can work over LAN can potentially last as long as the industry does - otherwise it'll last a bit longer than five years. And that's being extremely generous. Sure, devs could squeeze more longetivity out of a multiplayer title if they wanted to, but most of the big ones honestly do not give a fuck what their games do as long as it pays. It's selfish, short-sighted bullshit of the highest calibre.


On another minor footnote, I'd just like to add that UE4 really looks like nothing that Deus Ex wasn't already capable of, and I was honestly more disappointed that it wasn't an announcement of a new Unreal game that wasn't the UT series. I'm really more excited for progress on the Infinite Detail engine than whatever Epic Games can pump out anymore.
Edited by Blacklightning, Feb 18 2012, 03:39 AM.
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-Luffy Foxtrot-
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Here's something I found in the comments of this article.
Eris
 
DRM = Digital Restrictions Management, not Rights. It has never had anything whatsoever to do with anyone's rights, and everything to do with restricting the use of technology. Labeling it rights management is just a slick form of framing the debate and you shouldn't be buying it - let alone reinforcing it.

If everyone would start simply calling it digital restrictions management, we would have much more honest discussions about this problem. Remember, this has never been about copyright infringement, it has always been about control.
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-Jacquerel-
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It stands for Digital Rights Management, claiming it means something else when it actually doesn't isn't really all that profound :U
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Psycho Werekitsune
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Blacklightning
Feb 18 2012, 03:27 AM
On the subject of multiplayer and game longetivity, I had a different interpretation of the problem.

See, because I'm an ozzie and most of the people I ever get to play online are yanks or brits, I generally have a pretty hard time of finding an online game that works with a tolerable amount of lag to go by. So the obvious solution is "well BL, why don't you just play people closer to you, ya ranty bastard?"... and see, that's just the thing. Nobody fucking allows it anymore. Back in the N64/Cube era it was perfectly reasonable to expect all four controllers to be used for most multiplayer games, splitscreen or otherwise. Nowadays, the only games off the top of my head that still do that is the Halo series, which means for the most part that I've got three spare X360 controllers just sitting around collecting dust. Now, toning down the game's graphics to allow it to be rendered four seperate times per screen really isn't that difficult, and most splitscreen gamers can tolerate a bit of multiplayer frame lag if it means a chance to fuck around with mates in the same room.

But granted, not all multiplayer games can really be optimized very well for it, so if it's a game like Saints, fair enough. That would mean having to buy multiple fucking consoles and games for the opportunity to play with people in the same building as you - that's not always a bad thing though, if you're not the one buying duplicates of everything. Have everyone buy a 360 and a copy of that game you like, and you can just throw a LAN party whenever you want... right? Umm, no. Despite it being trivially easy to implement, a LAN option for multiplayer gaming remains mysteriously absent from every multiplayer title I could ever want to play, again, sans Halo (it's worth noting that I grew out of said series not long after Halo 3). Now the motive for this is pretty obvious - they want more people to sign up to their paid online service for the opportunity to play with friends so that they get more money off it - but this short-sightedness costs greatly on the game's lasting value because the servers won't be up forever (depending on the game, of course - for example, what I remember of Shadowrun's longetivity lasted mere months before the servers were shut down). A game like Doom or Quake is still playable today because with the right tools, you can simply pop it into multiple computers, link them together via router and fuck each other's shit up, whereas nowadays once the servers shut down, you can kiss any chance of getting a good run out of a game goodbye, sometimes destroying the game in its entirety if it's solely dependent on multiplayer interactions. And even while the game is still running, it's to say nothing of how ridiculously inefficient it is to have to connect to a distant server for the privalege of playing someone in the very next room.

Then as if self-sabotaging the game's longetivity by removing LAN functions wasn't enough, recently we've hit the absolute cieling of absurdity - online passes. What's an online pass? It's DLC that lets you play the game online. DLC that enables you to play online. So in addition to the game lasting about as long as the servers are still running, you have to buy the game completely new close to the launch date (assuming the retailer isn't an absolute sleaze like Gamestop and stealing even the DLC codes that new buyers are obliged to), otherwise you're fucked right from square one. You can't just tell a friend a few years after release "hey, this game was pretty cool and you haven't played it yet, maybe you should buy it so we can digitally stab each other sometime", because by that point all the new DLC codes will already have been used, and gamers won't see any incentive to fork out another 5-10 bucks for something they were already entitled to just by virtue of owning a hard copy of the game. Even more ridiculous still was the case with Saints 3, which did have a LAN function but required an online pass for it. How the fuck does that even work?

tl;dr, a game that can work over LAN can potentially last as long as the industry does - otherwise it'll last a bit longer than five years. And that's being extremely generous. Sure, devs could squeeze more longetivity out of a multiplayer title if they wanted to, but most of the big ones honestly do not give a fuck what their games do as long as it pays. It's selfish, short-sighted bullshit of the highest calibre.


On another minor footnote, I'd just like to add that UE4 really looks like nothing that Deus Ex wasn't already capable of, and I was honestly more disappointed that it wasn't an announcement of a new Unreal game that wasn't the UT series. I'm really more excited for progress on the Infinite Detail engine than whatever Epic Games can pump out anymore.
I wholeheartedly agree with this, the significant lack of local multiplayer in more recent games has really made me feel like this shift on a primarily online based system is intentional to milk a franchise with regular installments. I realised recently that, in all honesty, I don't really enjoy playing games online as much as I do with "real people". Oh sure, playing online with friends is fun, but playing online with strangers just seems like such a stunted experience, mostly because online communities are rife with dishonorable people with no standards or etiquette. Then I go back to the days of the arcades and back when we used to go to LAN centers, how there was a sense of respect and comradery in the air. You just really don't get that vibe with online gaming.
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-Luffy Foxtrot-
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Good Game recently started up again for this year, but there was some issue with Foxtel so it had nuked the show from Series Link. Watched the episode on ABC's iView service. There was a segment about how retailers breaking the street date on games was "ruining the industry", so to speak. They also included some argument about how the same retailers selling an imported copy was almost just as bad a thing to do. Then they did a 180 turn and reviewed Star Wars: The Old Republic with an imported copy since it doesn't launch here until March.

Does that count for irony? At the very least, it was a stupid move putting the two segments right after another.
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Psycho Werekitsune
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I can understand how importing might screw things up but that's only if the import sales take away from local sales. A good example would be if everyone imported Xenoblade and, as a result, no one was interested in buying the localised copy of the game, it would hurt business for everyone and, in the end, they probably wouldn't release games like those anymore.
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Psycho Werekitsune
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http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/02/13/call-of-duty-game-leads-to-prank-lewisville-911-call/

This is exactly what I was talking about above with people having no dignity or respect when playing online.
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-Arem-
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Fabulous Homosexual
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I want to find that fucker and kick him in the balls.
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---
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Blacklightning
Nov 14 2011, 02:48 AM
I like it when people use the word "gay" in any context other than a homosexual one - it only proves that they have the maturity of a five year old, as if their obsession with shooters didn't already do a good job of pointing that out. It's also pretty amusing that he pointed out Skyrim considering the fact that, y'know, it's set in the bloody medival era and doesn't even have muskets, let alone generic modern firearms.

But just for fun, let's play around with his logic a bit.

game - gun = gay
game + gun = -gay
game + gun + Arem = ???


Founder of #TeamArem
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Psycho Werekitsune
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Part man...part beast...full psycho!
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Just make sure you call me first so we can kick in tandem.
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-Arem-
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Fabulous Homosexual
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Deal.
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---
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Blacklightning
Nov 14 2011, 02:48 AM
I like it when people use the word "gay" in any context other than a homosexual one - it only proves that they have the maturity of a five year old, as if their obsession with shooters didn't already do a good job of pointing that out. It's also pretty amusing that he pointed out Skyrim considering the fact that, y'know, it's set in the bloody medival era and doesn't even have muskets, let alone generic modern firearms.

But just for fun, let's play around with his logic a bit.

game - gun = gay
game + gun = -gay
game + gun + Arem = ???


Founder of #TeamArem
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Psycho Werekitsune
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Remember that bullshit remakr Jaffe threw on Valentine's Day about Twisted Metal?

http://kotaku.com/5883107/does-david-jaffe-really-recommend-his-new-game-as-a-sexual-aid

Hit Detection gives feedback to developers. This is immensely useful considering that developers have become too greedy to start hiring their own testers (THQ has flat out admited they don't test their games for one), so I don't see a problem where testers have formed their own little companies to actually provide outsourced testing to devs who really need it.

Obsidian looking into crowd funding through Kickstarter. Looks like everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon after Double Fine's success.

Science says videogames are good for your eyes.
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-Havoc the Tenrec-
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Yay! More news I can throw at stupid idiots who hate videogames!
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<head>
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Psycho Werekitsune
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http://kotaku.com/5889415/this-is-what-a-gamers-sexual-harassment-looks-like

http://kotaku.com/5889066/competitive-gamers-inflammatory-comments-spark-sexual-harassment-debate
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