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brb going to Hajj; For about a week.
Topic Started: Nov 10 2010, 04:45 AM (751 Views)
Psycho Werekitsune
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Starting Saturday, God willing, me and Fenix will be heading out to perform Hajj, the yearly pilgrimage that is one of the five pilars of Islam. It is compulsory for every Muslim to perform Hajj at least once during their lifetime, and so, this is actually my first time doing it. I'm pretty excited, I think it'll be quite the spiritual experience. Following Hajj is Eid Al Adha, which is similar to Eid Al Fitr, only lasting 4 days as opposed to 3. While the meaning behind it is a little more different, it functions almost identically to Eid Al Fitr.

We should be gone about a week, so I hope to share the experience with everyone when I get back.
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-The Raging Zephyr-
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I'd totally love to go too, but not only is the airfare going to be more than I'm willing to splurge on.

You know, that and I'm not really a Muslim. I heard it's a crime to be there if you're not, which sounds more blown out of proportion than it really is.
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Psycho Werekitsune
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It's more like the Saudis have monopolised visiting Mecca and Madina to suit their own needs by claiming religion as a scapegoat. Nowhere in the Qur'ann, contextually, does it state that non-Muslims should be banned from Mecca or Madina, especially considering many non-Muslims lived there. Any passages that have been "translated" by people claiming this have been taken out of context, considering they usually refer to the pagans and idolators who oppressed The Prophet (PBUH) and caused many hostilities.

I'd like to reference this post from some forum I found on a Google search as a good argument against why non-Muslims should not be allowed in the holy cities:

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-sc...tml#post6659508

Quote:
 
9.28. O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise

It seems its talking about the shrine in Mecca. However this verse like all the verses in chapter 9 is talking about the pagans who fought against the prophet and those who aided them.

Because it says in the same chapter:

9.7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.

It says also:

9.13. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is God Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!

And I said that the Quran after that said:

9.29. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued

Jizya comes from jaza' meaning reward or compensate. The Quran also says:

As for such who do not fight you on account of faith, or drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to deal with them with equity, for God loves those who act equitably. God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of faith and drive you forth from your homelands or aid in driving you forth. As for those from among you who turn towards them for alliance, it is they who are wrongdoers. 60:8-9

It also says:

Permission (to fight) is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged, and verily, God has indeed the power to aid them. Those who have been driven from their homelands in defiance of right for no other reason than their saying, ‘Our Lord is God.’ 22:39-40

So the verse must be read in the Quranic context and it seems its talking about the crowds of Mecca.

2.193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God, but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression

So it seems its talking about the persecutions in Mecca and upon the prophet's return to Mecca these verses came down. Its not a generic verse since the Quran seperates between the parties depending on their history with the prophet and his propagation.

However as far as Saudi Arabia they say there is hadith that non Muslims are not allowed to enter the Arabian peninsula. They are Hanbali there so they believe the ruler decides.

The verse about the people of the book also its talking about a certain crowd since the Quran itself says:

Not all of them are alike: of the People of the book are a portion that stand (for the right); they rehearse the signs of Allah all night long and then prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong; and they (hasten in emulation) in (all) good works; they are in the ranks of the righteous. Of the good that they do nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knoweth well those that do right. 3.113

And there are certainly among the people of the Book those who believe in Allah in the revelation to you and in the revelation to them bowing in humility to Allah: they will not sell the signs of Allah for a miserable gain! for them is a reward with their Lord and Allah is swift in account. 3.199

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

So I think this is talking about the crowd in Mecca who sent the prophet to exile and lost their homes and property and this is a compensation(jizya) payment. Jizya has no relevance linguistically to tax. Tax in Arabic is dhareeba. Jizya is a reward.

The sects say:

Monqiz As-Saqqar attributes the word jizya to the root word jaza meaning "compensate" and defines it as "a sum of money given in return for protection".[14]
Ibn Al-Mutaraz derives the word from 'idjză, meaning "substitute" or "sufficiency" because "it suffices as a substitute for the dhimmi's embracement of Islam."[14]
Yusuf al-Qaradawi says the word jizya is derived from the jazaa', meaning "reward", "return", or "compensation", and defines it as "a payment by the non-Muslim according to an agreement signed with the Muslim state".[15]

Yet none of their definition justifies payment. Its clear from all their definition whether its subsutitute, reward or compensation that its talking about compensation or reward or substitution for something. It can not be for their rejection of faith since that is something not the prophet's business and not all of them were talked about in the Quran as I have shown. Its obvious this is about the crowds at Mecca after the prophet and his followers returned to after nearly 12 years in exile and the many battles fought.

16:82 But if they turn away from you, your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message .

6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides Him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you a guardian over them.

4:79-80 Say:'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper."

24.54. Say: "Obey God, and obey the Messenger. but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message).

88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.

39:41 Assuredly, We have sent down the Book to you in right form for the good of man. Whoso guided himself by it does so to his own advantage, and whoso turns away from it does so at his own loss. You certainly are not their keeper

109.1-6 Say : O ye that reject Faith,! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, To you be your Way, and to me mine.

What do people today or even those back then who were not persecuting the prophet and his propagation have to do with all this? The Quran makes it clear that no hostilities except with those who pratice oppression.

I think this is a case when something specific has been made very general without looking at the Quranic context and the Quranic guidelines.
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-Havoc the Tenrec-
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I can't go because I am unclean and American?
Well, what if I took a bath and disguised myself as a Muslim before getting to the airport? XD

Have fun then man.
So, what do you do exactly? Is this pilgrimage on foot or by car?
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Psycho Werekitsune
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Getting there by plane, travelling around Mecca and doing the various things necessary are all on foot. As for what I do exactly, in all honesty, I'm not sure of the details and will be picking up on it as I go. The best thing about going on Hajj is that all your du'aa (essentially, prayers) are accepted, so if there's anyone here who wants me to make du'aa for them for whatever reason, please let me know in this topic.
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-Havoc the Tenrec-
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Unless your God is a vengeful God, I don't think any of my "Du'aa" would be answered anyway.

Ask for World peace.
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-The Raging Zephyr-
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I think my one major issue is that I'd rather not confuse a wish with a prayer. It's half the reason I tend to stray away from prayer because it's not as simple as "Thank you for this, bring us good tidings in the future", at least not in my mind.
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Psycho Werekitsune
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I'm kinda going more for stuff like "Please God, help Polter with his studies and let him ace his finals" or "Please God, help Havoc's relative recover and let them get well soon" kinda thing. World peace is nice too, but if you guys have anything more personal you'd like me to pray for, then all the better. Prayer's a very powerful thing, but today, it's kinda misused as a way for people to ask for stuff when they just want something. It's kinda a two way deal, you should really be praying to God whenever you can, moreso when you want something. That's really how I feel about it.
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-Havoc the Tenrec-
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I guess Christians are kinda lucky that way. They can ask for anything whenever they want, and still not get it. You guys have to walk miles to get the same effect.

But at least you'll remember the one time you did it. I'm sure it's awesome exercise too.
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Psycho Werekitsune
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It'll be thigh chaffingly awesome. Also, I meant more along the lines that prayers are more likely to be answered in Hajj than any other time it's done. It's kinda hard to explain how it works.
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-Kay G. Radley-
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I first though the topic thread said "brb going to Hell", but then I looked back over it. I'm still fairly certain we'll be going to hell anyway...

...but I digress. Have a fun time. :)
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-Korokage-
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I've heard of the details of Hajj. O3O Have fun. MAKE SURE YOU FIND SOME TASTY SNACKS TO WRITE ABOUT TO MAKE ME JELOUS. *shot* But yeah have fun with that. \ouo/
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superkeijikun
Nov 9 2010, 22:13 PM
I first though the topic thread said "brb going to Hell", but then I looked back over it. I'm still fairly certain we'll be going to hell anyway...

...but I digress. Have a fun time. :)

Holy crap, I thought the same thing XD
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-The Raging Zephyr-
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Havoc The Tenrec
Nov 10 2010, 01:37 AM
superkeijikun
Nov 9 2010, 22:13 PM
I first though the topic thread said "brb going to Hell", but then I looked back over it. I'm still fairly certain we'll be going to hell anyway...

...but I digress. Have a fun time. :)

Holy crap, I thought the same thing XD

thirded
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Psycho Werekitsune
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There must be a Daffy Duck cartoon out there concerning this.
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