Sonic the Hedgehog

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Sonic the Hedgehog; All things Sonic go here.
Tweet Topic Started: Sep 4 2010, 07:44 AM (41,932 Views)
-Phantom Hammertoes-	Oct 9 2011, 03:12 PM Post #451
Master Posts: 342 Group: Elite Member #74 Joined: September 4, 2010	Quote: Chao is a pet sim. The latter, despite being "left-of-field", is still mandatory for 100% completion. It's not terribly difficult to see where this is going. As it is, to get 100% requires a whole bunch of stupid platforming goals as well. What, there's like, 5 missions a level? Fine for Sonic and Shadow. Complete pain in the ass with every other character. Honestly, being a completionist was great for extended gameplay but eventually there was too many games to keep up with... I'm more about, you know, enjoying the game. If I can 100% it, I will. What I'm saying is, it obviously wasn't mandatory for completing the game, just for getting 100%. Plus, you could always just go through the levels once, grab the Drives you needed and just abuse a lovely little glitch that allows infinite use of the Animals and Drives. (The trick was the drop it next to them >>.) If you found the Garden to be half-assed, you could just complete it half-assed. Quote: ...The fact that Sonic Team insisted on putting so many unrelated playing styles into every game they made is the entire reason the fanbase has so many divisions in the first place, and the last thing ST should be doing is justifying these divisions further. Revise Chao so that it actually belongs in the game if you want, hell, I'd actually like that, but even you have to admit that the innovation is kinda pointless if the main crowd of the game isn't going to find it fun. If you want my advice, I'd just say stop fucking appealing to two completely different and contrasting audiences - he who chases two rabbits catches neither. No argument here. The Chao Garden is just easily one of the better minigames to come out of it. What's more, unlike the other retarded minigames, you don't HAVE to play it just to get through the story. Quote: I've yet to see a decent Indie game that blatantly advertises itself to one audience, then goes into features not even built in mind for them. Not even talking explicitly about Chao Gardens either, by the way - as I've mentioned earlier, the clumsy shooting sections and hot-cold treasure hunting is equally guilty of this. Well, no, neither do I. It's the crazy experimental stuff that usually becomes the game itself. My point there was, there's AAA titles, your other first party (staple mascots and series), your second/third party (a mix of shovelware and some gems worthy of being first party titles) and then there's your indie games, which usually try to do something different or out there. Or is intentionally retro because retro is so cool now or whatever. The latter of which I don't believe belong under the Indie umbrella, should that umbrella even exist. I'm just sick of "stick with what works." Still, as most of my points, it wasn't a strong one >>. Quote: Trouble? ... I've already covered this. Break the game. Quote: They weren't even needed in the first place, considering they're largely cosmetic (and more often than not horrifically mutilate your Chao anyway), and the stat bonuses you get from them are still outweighed by the effort it takes to get them in comparison to grabbing a bunch of drives instead. Suffice to say, if even you aren't doing this regularly then it's kind of hard to consider it a point in your favour as far as exploration is concerned. Well, unfortunately, I DID spend many hours exploring and finding specific animals to shape my Chao how I wanted. To this day, as you can probably tell, I'm still proud of them. So I guess that's just a matter of aesthetics, which becomes a massive issue when arguing on an individual basis. Quote: ...Sonic Team is also, for better or worse, extremely unpredictable anyway... As for the last part, that's just a matter of me forgetting we're talking about Sonic Team. You're not contagious :P. I was baiting you intentionally as I've been absent from the internet for so long, so I thought the best way to get back into it is to learn from the infamous BL. I'm completely aware you're smarter than I am :)
	Good Game Hex: Yes, you've read the book, you've seen the film - now avoid the game like the plague lest your memory of Harry Potter's epic conclusion be tainted by what can only be described as a short, half-arsed cover-shooter that's boring beyond belief. Bajo: ...It's shit.


Psycho Werekitsune	Oct 9 2011, 03:16 PM Post #452
Part man...part beast...full psycho! Posts: 17,366 Group: All Powerful Deity Member #1 Joined: December 30, 2005	Blacklightning Oct 9 2011, 09:41 AM OMGOMGOMGOMG POSTMAN PAT! I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT SINCE I WAS LIKE FOUR!
	EMBRACE THE NAKED!


-Luffy Foxtrot-	Oct 9 2011, 04:36 PM Post #453
Raining on your parade with a truckload of awkward awesomeness. Posts: 4,950 Group: Elite Member #70 Joined: November 11, 2009	Postman Pat was awesome.



-Ekoi-	Oct 9 2011, 05:03 PM Post #454
Master Posts: 864 Group: Elite Member #72 Joined: November 12, 2009	Holy shit. I am NOT reading all these walls. Fuck you guys I'm just gonna say my SHORT opinion. No problems with bringing it back so long as it isn't a required means to progress through the rest of the game's bulk of content. Completionests? Guess what, if it's there, it's part of the game. Either break the silly mindset and only play the bulk you enjoy, or earn your damned self-given title and do the side-game shit. This may as well include my opinion for every damned game.
	Ekoi.deviantArt.com


-YCobb-	Oct 9 2011, 10:05 PM Post #455
Master Posts: 365 Group: Elite Member #75 Joined: September 4, 2010	Yeah I sort of skimmed all that too, but I do want to say this about the target audience thing: The target audience for Sonic games is probably Sonic fans. Generally, Sonic fans liked the Chao garden. I'm not really seeing the problem here?
	Quote: space elves who save the world from time travelling cyborg death gods also CHORNO FUCKING TRIGGER


-Havoc the Tenrec-	Oct 9 2011, 11:20 PM Post #456
Master Posts: 6,709 Group: Elite Member #83 Joined: September 10, 2010	wtl;dr Chao garden was a nice little extra that required you to go back and collect stuff to sorta level up creatures. I actually liked bringing back a whole bunch of those things back, abusing some chao and caring for others >:3 Sure it got tiresome at times, but it felt worth it for some reason.
	html-initialize: <head> <blinkingtext/"I am growing stronger"</blenked> </endhtml>


-The Raging Zephyr-	Oct 9 2011, 11:46 PM Post #457
The Winds of Change Posts: 1,254 Group: Elite Member #11 Joined: March 7, 2007	I'm in the small group that believes that the best rewards for players are those that offer new things with you doing a minimal amount to get them. That is, extra costumes and stuff through emblems and getting more percentage towards game completion? I'm okay with that. But really, having to collect EVERYTHING just to unlock what, Green Hill Zone? Bullshit. I love that you unlock the Last Story after beating both story modes, but could you give me a break here and give me GHZ for just beating Last Story? Or maybe beating the Last Story on Hard, if anything?



Psycho Werekitsune	Oct 10 2011, 12:34 AM Post #458
Part man...part beast...full psycho! Posts: 17,366 Group: All Powerful Deity Member #1 Joined: December 30, 2005	Ekoi Oct 9 2011, 05:03 PM Completionests? Guess what, if it's there, it's part of the game. Either break the silly mindset and only play the bulk you enjoy, or earn your damned self-given title and do the side-game shit. This may as well include my opinion for every damned game. You make it sound like we completionists have a problem doing parts of the game that aren't mandatory. That's not the problem; the issue here is how BORING and MUNDANE the Chao Garden was to someone who wanted to unlock all it's stuff. I have no problems partaking in a pet life sim thingie, I just wish they'd put a bit more effort into it. Like, you know, actually having you control the Chao during races and fights as opposed to watching them trade slaps for a few seconds.
	EMBRACE THE NAKED!


-Sandie Sandwicheadman-	Oct 10 2011, 01:06 AM Post #459
Master Posts: 398 Group: Elite Member #85 Joined: September 13, 2010	Yeah, it's boring. That's why I didn't play it. All you unlock there is more shit for the chao garden anyways. Why bother?



-Havoc the Tenrec-	Oct 10 2011, 01:21 AM Post #460
Master Posts: 6,709 Group: Elite Member #83 Joined: September 10, 2010	I remember downloading the save file to the vmu just to get green hill. I was close on my own, but some levels were ridiculously hard.
	html-initialize: <head> <blinkingtext/"I am growing stronger"</blenked> </endhtml>


-Arem-	Oct 10 2011, 02:29 AM Post #461
Fabulous Homosexual Posts: 6,262 Group: Elite Member #59 Joined: November 9, 2009	I never participated in most of the races, because they were junk. I just loved playing with the chao. :B
	--- Quote: Blacklightning Nov 14 2011, 02:48 AM I like it when people use the word "gay" in any context other than a homosexual one - it only proves that they have the maturity of a five year old, as if their obsession with shooters didn't already do a good job of pointing that out. It's also pretty amusing that he pointed out Skyrim considering the fact that, y'know, it's set in the bloody medival era and doesn't even have muskets, let alone generic modern firearms. But just for fun, let's play around with his logic a bit. game - gun = gay game + gun = -gay game + gun + Arem = ??? Founder of #TeamArem


Psycho Werekitsune	Oct 10 2011, 03:08 AM Post #462
Part man...part beast...full psycho! Posts: 17,366 Group: All Powerful Deity Member #1 Joined: December 30, 2005	Sandie Sandwicheadman Oct 10 2011, 01:06 AM Yeah, it's boring. That's why I didn't play it. All you unlock there is more shit for the chao garden anyways. Why bother? It also unlocked emblems which were exclusive to the Chao Garden, which furthered unlocking stuff in the main game, like costumes and GHZ.
	EMBRACE THE NAKED!


-Jacquerel-	Oct 10 2011, 03:20 AM Post #463
Master Posts: 1,082 Group: Elite Member #89 Joined: October 2, 2010	Some people enjoyed it You weren't one of them, unfortunate for you but you knew what you were signing up for when you started gunning for 100% If you don't enjoy the whole of the game and then choose to try and do the things you don't enjoy anyway it's sort of your own fault



-Blacklightning-	Oct 10 2011, 03:52 AM Post #464
BL;DR Posts: 3,493 Group: Elite Member #80 Joined: September 7, 2010	Quote: As it is, to get 100% requires a whole bunch of stupid platforming goals as well. What, there's like, 5 missions a level? Fine for Sonic and Shadow. Complete pain in the ass with every other character. Honestly, being a completionist was great for extended gameplay but eventually there was too many games to keep up with... I'm more about, you know, enjoying the game. If I can 100% it, I will. What I'm saying is, it obviously wasn't mandatory for completing the game, just for getting 100%. Regardless of which way you spin it, it kind of defeats the purpose of adding extra content if the majority of the people into this kind of game aren't going to find it fun. Yes, I agree this doesn't apply solely to the garden either, but as long as it's the subject of discussion here... I won't comment on the glitch seeing as it requires the exploit of something that obviously isn't exactly intentional or even common knowledge for that matter. Quote: As for the last part, that's just a matter of me forgetting we're talking about Sonic Team. You're not contagious :P. I was baiting you intentionally as I've been absent from the internet for so long, so I thought the best way to get back into it is to learn from the infamous BL. I'm completely aware you're smarter than I am :) Well, I had fun getting that out of my system, so I guess we both gained a little something here. Quote: Yeah I sort of skimmed all that too, but I do want to say this about the target audience thing: The target audience for Sonic games is probably Sonic fans. Generally, Sonic fans liked the Chao garden. I'm not really seeing the problem here? Sonic fans are idiots. There's your problem. Spoiler: click to toggle In all seriousness though, if you cater exclusively to the people already inside the fanbase and pretty much just ignore the people that are buying games like this to play, y'know, a fucking platformer, the fandom ain't exactly about to get any bigger. It's pretty much exactly the same problem as most Capcom fighters right now, which insist on control schemes that bear a suspiciously large resemblance to cheat codes just because their existing fanbase doesn't complain about it. Quote: Some people enjoyed it You weren't one of them, unfortunate for you but you knew what you were signing up for when you started gunning for 100% If you don't enjoy the whole of the game and then choose to try and do the things you don't enjoy anyway it's sort of your own fault Is there a problem with making 100% completion legitimately fun to accomplish? Why exactly is the blame on me because ST chose to throw in a pet sim that bears next to no relation to the rest of the game, then has the nerve to tease people by way of "hey guy look at all this awesome shit you'll never get to have because you couldn't be fucked to excel in a skill that doesn't even reflect apon anything else learned in the game"? For fuck's sake. It's not like Arkham Asylum made me sit through a goddamned farming sim before being able to unlock Riddler trophies or anything. EDIT: Quote: No problems with bringing it back so long as it isn't a required means to progress through the rest of the game's bulk of content. It kinda defeats the point of attaching one game to another if they barely even interact with each other. Hence my previous suggestion of seperating it into an XBLA title. Or, y'know, at least increasing the amount of interaction you actually have in the minigames themselves - restricting the player to a one-dimensional backseat cheerer is a pretty stupid thing to do. Also, fun fact - I never did end up getting GHZ. I was stupid enough to actually go through enough grinding to raise a demi-godly Chao capable of earning most of the Chao emblems singlehandedly, and you know what happened? The little bastard dies just two jewel races short of the entire set (running and swimming, if I remember right). I haven't touched the Garden since, because there's no damn way I'm going through that much fetch-questing twice. ajkdfhlkajsdfhaksjdhf Edited by Blacklightning, Oct 10 2011, 03:59 AM.



-Jacquerel-	Oct 10 2011, 04:05 AM Post #465
Master Posts: 1,082 Group: Elite Member #89 Joined: October 2, 2010	The problem isn't that there's a problem making it legitimately fun to accomplish, the problem is that it is legitimately impossible to please everyone You don't like the chao garden, suprisingly enough despite my username I grew tired of it pretty quickly too, plenty of people other people did though and our opinion is not somehow more valid than theirs just because you want to complete 100% of the game They clearly attracted people by adding a pet sim because there is clearly still call for its return today so you cannot act as if it is universally maligned or a poor move on their part to include it, you just didn't like it yourself A larger proportion of people do not complete 100% of a game than do They are pleasing a larger proportion of fans by adding optional extra content for people who enjoy it that some people may dislike but are not forced into playing and can skip it than by stripping a game down to its bare bones to please the smaller group of people who want to do the whole thing even though they hate it Edited by Jacquerel, Oct 10 2011, 04:06 AM.



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