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| Solid vs. Inui FE6 debate | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 19 2013, 05:04:43 PM (382 Views) | |
| Nova | Apr 19 2013, 05:04:43 PM Post #1 |
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rules: Inui has OJ, I have Ray. 4 posts each (but shortened to 3 if debate gets too long per post) Posts are posted simultaneously, not in exchange. This means we both write an opener, we both write a closer, and we both write middle posts, and they will be posted at the same time by a neutral third party (Reikken, in this case). That way no one gets the "last post advantage." The order of posts is determined by RNG. Good luck
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| Reikken | Apr 19 2013, 05:06:01 PM Post #2 |
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Locked for stupid. Please try to maintain intelligent discussion. |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qDiJkhUMfw http://myanimelist.net/profile/Reikken | http://www.last.fm/user/Reikken | |
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| Reikken | Apr 19 2013, 05:13:15 PM Post #3 |
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== Solide == OJ's got the distinction of being the only Hero in the FE series whose Manly stat DNE. He shares a class with the likes of Raven, Echidna, Dieck, Gerik, and Greil, yet he's bland & generic, fails in his attempts to bag women, and has lol9Con (lol @ losing 6 AS from Steel Axe btw). What a noob. Anyway, Ray's major win over OJ lies in defense, and it's quite a big win indeed, with 1-2 range, staves, giving supports, a huge Res lead, and Nosferatu. Let's start with 1-2 range. Normally, concrete durability is better than ranged attacking because ranged attacking only saves you from 1-3 attacks per turn (one on player phase due to taking no counter and another 0-2 on enemy phase due to ranged guys not attacking you), but OJ's concrete durability is so low that 1-3 attacks is like a 100-300% increase in durability. 4 base Def and 0 base Res (lmao) with 20%/15% growths is pretty awful for a nonranged unit. Even Thany has like 6 Def and 5 Res—several chapters earlier. When Ray joins: 12/0 OJ – 31.7 HP, 5.8 Def, 1.4 Res, 37 Avo (33 w/Steel Sword) base Ray – 23 HP, 5 Def, 10 Res, 24 Avo (22 w/Flux) OJ is best against axes, so let's check out a L12 Steel Axe Fighter: 26-27 Atk and 69-71 Hit, so Steel Sword OJ takes 19-20 damage after WTA @ 22%, ~10% real hit. 10% of the time, OJ attacks a fighter and is left at 10-11 HP. Any other attack will now kill him—even just taking on two Fighters (his best encounter), his chance to die is already 1%, and if something like an Archer attacks him (20-22 Atk, 91-93 Hit) after he fights a Fighter, it's 6-7%. If you take something more threatening like Dragon Rider + Archer, it's now ~44-45%, which is downright outrageous (note also that lances will be more common than axes from this chapter on). So every time OJ attacks, you have to either a.) have only one enemy in range of him AND make sure that whatever he attacked on player phase dies before enemy phase or b.) waste someone's turn healing him/backing him up. OJ can't even safely take on two Fighters in the same turn—1% chance to lose your Survival Rank (and lose OJ forever) is awful. Even if the Fighter had a little more Atk and Ray were getting OHKO'ed by it, he'd still be doing better than OJ, as he could safely attack Fighter + counterattack Archer or other enemy, while OJ couldn't be relied on to do that, since he could die (not that he could counterattack an Archer anyway), and the gap between them against any other enemy would obviously be larger since everything else has lower Atk. When you're dying in 2 attacks, it doesn't matter how much Avo you have, so Ray's durability is about 2x as good as OJ's since Ray doesn't have to take counters—OJ dies in 2 phases; Ray in 4. In practice, it's even a bit better than 2x, because ranged guys won't really attack Ray but will attack OJ. And when Ray does get hit, he can still use his next player phase to attack, whereas OJ has to wait until he's healed, since he can die on the counter. This trend doesn't really change throughout the game, either, due to their low Def growths. When they promote, OJ does gain a nice 4 Def bonus and axes (but lol9Con), but Ray also gets +1 Def from Lugh, so it looks something like this: 20/1 Ray w/B Lugh – 30.4 HP, 9.2 Def, 15.8 Res, 45.6 Avo (50.6 with A Lugh when he has it) 20/1 OJ – 42.5 HP, 11.4 Def, 4.55 Res, 52.7 Avo They're both stilll dying in a few hits, and Ray still has 1-2 range, so Ray's better. OJ does have Hand Axe now but lol @ using Hand Axe on a regular basis. He loses 2 AS from it (his only lead against Ray) and it has terrible Hit. Nothing compared to Ray's range. Although the stats are mostly the same, two things did change. First, staves. Even with an E in Staves, Ray's big Mag ensures that he's healing a lot with just Heal, so now Ellen, Saul, or Clarine can go attack and build weapon rank/exp instead of healing (they may also not be in range/have gotten RNG-screwed). Second, B Lugh. All of OJ's supporters are bad except Lalum, which is 1/+1 anyway, and OJ has lolWind affinity (even worse than regular Wind). Lilina would be good if she joined earlier or had a higher Mag base (5 is pretty bad for a unit who's supposed to be good in offense, and her durability is awful), but sadly she doesn't, and even if she did, she has so many other supporters (a massive 10, including a fast Roy support) that OJ barely gets any time with her. Lugh, meanwhile, is an earlier-joining, faster Lilina. Ray is one of his best supports, so Ray is giving bonuses/sharing the love, while OJ, being the selfish dastard that he is, is keeping all his durability to himself (not that he has any). So, if anything, promotion made things a lot worse for OJ. Back on the issue of general durability, though, Ray also has more Res—he takes tons less damage from magic users (if they even attack him), and 1 point of Res is about 6 staff Avo, so Ray has like 9 billion more Avo vs. Sleep, etc. This one means that Ray is free to move around in range of magic users and status staff users, while OJ isn't. Finally, there's Nosferatu. With Nosferatu, Ray's durability is light years better than OJ's. Take the Cavs in Chapter 15 for instance, 24 Atk and 3 Res. They do 18-19 damage to 15/0 Ray, but he does 20-22 back, so he takes no damage. He can tank hordes of them, diverting attacks from your other units (because the Cavs don't realize that he's a self-healing BOSS) while OJ can't. It's expensive, but Ray isn't using it all the time, just when you need him to. Either way, Ray has the option to tank 1/3 the enemies in the game—OJ does not. Point: Ray. So as you can see, Ray's defensive advantages are enormous. Even if OJ could fight back against 1 or 2 of them, Ray has 5, and the first one is enormous all by itself, so there's no way he's winning. But what about offense? Indeed, OJ has more Spd. Ray doesn't double much before promotion and doubles less than OJ after promotion. But Ray does way more damage in a single hit, often more than OJ can do in two. Those Cavaliers from earlier? Ray does like 18-20 with one hit from Flux. Iron Sword OJ does 6x2 = 12 to them, while Steel Sword OJ doesn't double. Speaking of which, if OJ can't double or both double, Ray's offense uses OJ's offense like a dirty dishrag due to Ray's damage lead. And then Ray's 1-2 range strikes again. Not doubling (and low offense in general) is bad because it hurts the Combat Rank. But OJ hurts the Combat Rank more than Ray anyway, because he can't counter ranged enemies (without lolhandaxewhichsucks). Ray taking two rounds to kill something because he doesn't double isn't any worse than OJ taking two rounds to kill something because he couldn't counter it on enemy phase—maybe even better if OJ needs more than one round to kill (like Dragon Riders). Looks like Ray is winning offense too, though he didn't need to at all. What does OJ have to answer with? I guess he's positive for Exp Rank before Ray joins (Chapter 8 to Chapter 12), but he's also very bad for Combat/Tactics because his bases are awful, even when he's facing axes (lol 7 Str, 4 Def, 9 Spd, Swordlock. gg). So if there's any positive there, it's canceled and then some by the huge negative of fielding him. Looks like OJ's got nothing. Ray wins. |
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| Reikken | Apr 19 2013, 05:14:32 PM Post #4 |
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== Inui == Ray is poop shit piss and Oujay is cool. And dare I say...he's cuter? ;o http://serenesforest.net/fe6/rank.html http://serenesforest.net/fe6/rank2.html First we must start off with le rankingz. As you can see, Tactics is kinda easy, but saved turns in Tactics can be translated to making other ranks easier. The harder ranks are Experience, Combat, and Funds, all of which Oujay is DA MAN in, if not downright amazing. Oujay's joining situation isn't the best, but it's certainly better than Ray's. Oujay is at least doubling all of the loldiers in his map, one-rounding armors with his armorslayer, and joins your team just as they come by him. Oujay doesn't even need to fight in his joining map if you're not good enough at the game to avoid death situations (which I'm sure you're going to try to imply because you're gay, Solid). He can wait for all of the axe negroes of the foggy islands. Ray joins at the end of his chapter and doesn't get much time to do anything, especially because you're pressured to kill a dragon on a throne as fast as possible in order to secure access to 12x. Level 3 Mercenary HP: 24 Str: 7 Skl: 10 Spd: 9 Luck: 6 Def: 4 Res: 0 You see that low level!? That shit is motherfucking THREE. The Experience rank of this game gives you incentive to field lower level units in order to get a perfect score, so he's automatically good there. Let's not stop there, either. Since Oujay is in play, Roy is ALWAYS in play, and she's needed to recruit Gonzales and Garret, this is a playthrough we'll be seeing Lilina in. She ain't the best, but thankfully the Experience rank gives incentive to use her and supports can make her single hit feel like a bus full of fat people to her enemies and she won't be missing. Oujay doesn't miss either with his nice base Skl and access to swords. Ray would even miss Oujay's gigantic nuts with his most accurate tome. Speaking of missing, that's all Ray is good at besides dying. Oujay gets to enter a giant axefest in which he's automatically good due to having swords. Even 8x is already an axefest. Most of these axe guys have STEEL which means they just miss. Even at base, their hit rates can plunge below 30 on Oujay, which is garbage in a dual RN system. He's also not dying in one hit. For the most part, he's coasting through the Western Isles maps without a problem, and the Experience rank gives you a big incentive to let him be the one to get kills. Thankfully, this is beneficial for the team anyways because he has good growths. They're 85, 40, 30, 45, 55, 20, and 15 respectively. Whoa what's that!? 55% Luck and a Mercenary!? He's almost like that dragon pussy plowing god Donnel. His avoid is going to shoot through the roof, into the skies, and then to outer space and beyond. He's also a HERO, which is a good class because it has swords, axes, and nice stats all around. When he promotes, he gets HAND AXES and can murder wyverns and cavaliers and stuff more easily. When Ray joins, Oujay is likely around level 15, and during the time he was being used, he was bodybagging axe niggers and being good for both the Combat and Experience ranks. Level 15 Mercenary HP: 34.2 Str: 11.8 Skl: 13.6 Spd: 14.4 Luck: 12.6 Def: 6.4 Res: 1.8 C Lilina gives my boy +1 Atk and +5 Crit to strengthen his mighty offense. It also gives him some more Hit, something Ray desperately needs because he can't even hit an FE7 Ostian Knight with his most accurate tome. Level 12 thing that misses and can't double and is good at dying HP: 23 Str: 12 Skl: 9 Spd: 9 Luck: 6 Def: 5 Res: 10 wtf is this shit you piece of trash Ray why are we even fielding you besides giving your superior brother a support partner Ray is so puny that he loses 1 Spd even from his lightest tome, and 2 from Nosferatu. In the next map, the Myrmidons there will double him and he will just miss them. His base hit is 91. Your average Merc/Myrm is going to have 35+ avoid, and even the poopoo axe nigguhz have like 15-20 avoid. Nosferatu or having 1~2 range at all isn't that good if you're missing a lot in a game with a hard Combat rank, die in two hits (or in the case of STEEL axes, HE DIES IN ONE HIT LOL 11 might axe and those guys have 17+ Str), and rely on your hit connecting in order to not be two hit killed by...everything. Fielding Ray at all is automatically a negative to your Combat rank and risks Survival because he is like wet tissue paper. Oujay is easy to raise up and gets going very quickly, then becomes an offensive demon as a Hero that doubles everything and doesn't die. He has access to tons of killer/slayer/etc. weapons that Ray can never touch. In fact, Ray only has two weapons, both of which having only 70 Hit and being extremely expensive (Nos is twice as much as Killing Edge). He's clearly losing Funds quite hard as well. |
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| Reikken | Apr 23 2013, 09:32:48 PM Post #5 |
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== Solíd ==
Of course. It wouldn't be a debate without some homo.
Yes, OJ can die. "one-rounding armors" only happens with backup, because OJ eats a lance to the face for 17-18 damage and is left at 6-7 HP. Soldiers do the same, while Archers do about half his health anyway (14-15 Steel, 11-12 Iron), and he can't one-round either of them (or counter bows at all). That's indeed bad. But can the "axe negroes" of the Western Isles save OJ? 8x has 10 deployment slots, and you have Roy/Alan/Lance (staple), Rutger/Dieck (top tier), Lott/Thany (good), Clarine/Ellen/Saul (healers), Zealot/Marcus (Jeigans), Treck/Noah (upper mid), Lugh/Sue/Dorothy/Wolt (ranged), Ward (manly), and Lilina+Knights (not good). Almost all of those units besides the Knights and Lilina (yes, even Ward; more on that later) have better combat performance. Fielding OJ here is bad, so he misses it. "Aha!" you say, "What about Exp Rank?" Well, what about it? Even when it comes to Exp Rank OJ faces stiff competition. Base Treck is level 4 and has better base HP/Str/Def, so he's better for Exp Rank. Lilina is ranged, so she's better too (though her durability is bad, like OJ's). 3/0 Sue will have more Spd and durability due to range. Ellen/Saul/Clarine are healers so they're better by default, and if you didn't raise Rutger/Alance/Lance/Dieck/Lugh on this playthrough, they're better for Exp too. Even Noah is better, at level 7. OJ gains 4 more Exp per kill (oh no) and a whole 1 more Exp per hit (earth-shatteringly huge, right?), so 7 isn't a whole lot different from 3. etc. So OJ doesn't get 8x; if he did, he'd be replacing someone better, so the net benefit is 0, even from Exp. Anyway, starting in Ch. 9, the Hand Axe users have like 15% real hit rates on OJ. That's pretty enormous for someone whose durability is so low that two Hand Axes will kill, or a Hand Axe + Bow. It's as bad as your magic units/Clarine/Ellen/Saul, except that OJ has no 1-2 range options or things he can do without being in the enemy's face, like healing. Fail. Maybe that would be OK if OJ actually had good offense, but...
let me just take a second to sit back and lol at this one. Lol. LOL LOLOLOOL LOOOOOL LOLL LMAOOOO LOL ROFL XD BBQ OMGLOL lol k done. OJ being good for Combat Rank is a joke. He's one of the worst units on your team (and even worse for Tactics). The axe users JUST in Ch. 9 have 6-7AS (with some at 8 and 9, and a few outliers at 5 and 10) and OJ starts with 9 Spd, so he won't be doubling. Starting at 8/0, he can double with an Iron Sword, but 14+1 Atk is bad, meaning ~20 HP (about half their health) on a double. He won't double with Steel until 12/0. The rest of the team is doing better. How much better? -Rutger has Spd, so he can double and one-round with (buyable) Iron Blades; Dieck and Zealot's Con lets them do the same; Marcus with even 1 point of gained Spd can do it too -Alan and Lance can one-round with Steel Sword, Alan once he doubles from 13/0 on and Lance with B Alan C Roy (or Iron Blade on slow ones). -Thany doubles; after 14/0 she doubles with Steel Lance (lol) and her supports can give Atk (3-5), so OJ gets owned in damage, and Thany has way more Def despite WTD; Tate is just Thany with less Spd/supports and more Str/faster growth -Sue and Shin are in the same boat as Thany, only with range and Shin being level 5 so he grows just as fast as OJ; and Klein...lol 15 Str gg OJ -base Gonzales one-rounds a third to half of them and by level 8-10 all of them -Level 1 Fir has the same Atk/Spd as level 8 OJ (lmao) but grows faster, so she doubles with Steel -Echidna easily one-rounds them at base -Steel Axe Ward does more damage in one hit than 8/0 OJ can in two on a double, and with B Dieck/B Lott or Thany he does more even with IRON AXE (rofl wow OJ is bad, maybe this should have been OJ vs. Ward); Lot's less strong but doubles some of them -Lugh does way more damage and doubles -Even Bors, among the worst units on your team, has only 1 point of Spd less than base OJ at 13/0 and more Atk (but less Hit). But then Bors has 11 more Def and 6 more HP; he can survive 2 Steel Axes + Hand Axe, or 3-4 Hand Axes (!) with WTD, while OJ can't with WTA, -Barth is a lot worse than Bors, with less Spd/HP/supports, so we'll give this one to OJ lol Looks like he's the worst unit on your entire team except for Barth/Wendy, maybe Dorothy/Wolt, and Lilina (lol Lilina does like 10 damage to them). The faster Mercs (13-14 AS) can even double him, by the way, about as significant as Ray's getting OHKO'd by (some) Fighters when he first joins. And that's just axes. Only half the enemies in 9 and 10 are axe guys; in 11 and 12, there are MORE non-axes (Cavs, Mages, Shamans, Wyverns, and Archers/Pegs with Klein/Tate) than axes. So OJ is horrible at combat, and there are tons of units better or almost the same for Exp. Before Ray joins, OJ is accumulating a big negative by even trying to level himself. Point: Ray. Now, in your comparison you have OJ at level 15 when Ray joins. There are two problems with this, besides OJ's obviously bad combat. First, if Exp Rank indeed matters, then level 12 Ray is better for it than level 15 OJ, so Ray has a rank advantage when he joins. And second, OJ levels at about 1.4 to 1.5 times the rate of a regular unit; for OJ to be level 15 by Chapter 12, Lance would have to be...level 20? And then you add in his bad stats. Totally not happening. Let's see how many levels OJ actually gains. Chapter 9 has 30 enemies. You have 13 deployment slots AND Fir and Shin, so even if you're using 2-3 healers, you still have 12-13 combat units available. Each unit gets 2-3 kills. Since OJ's offense is weak, he won't be killing, and has to stay out of range of everything, but since he has Exp Rank priority, he can killsteal x2 and get a hit in on another guy. 1.5 levels. "but reinforcements" Yes, reinforcements exist, and Tactics is lenient, but you want to spend those turns in the arena and fighting lategame reinforcements rather than early/midgame reinforcements, because by then you'll have more sources of Exp per turn: promoted magic users, healers who can fight, Lalum, more low-leveled guys, etc. Besides, the Ch. 9 guys come in groups of 3, as do reinforcements in general, so others are better for fighting them. Chapter 10 has even fewer enemies (25) and reinforcements (10), so 1.5 levels for kill priority. Chapter 11 has beastly fighters with 40 HP, 6 Def, and like 9-12 AS. Even your top tiers are struggling here, so OJ is obviously super bad. He's bad vs. the Mages/Shamans, and awful vs. the Cavs. He can have maybe 1 level. Then we get to Ray's chapter. We'll be generous and say he got 1 level in his joining chapter with the Armorslayer or 8x. Now he's level 8, and can get 2 levels (finally) doubling Fighters in this chapter. So when Ray joins he's 9-10. What's this? Ray is actually higher? Yep. I ignored Ray's lead so that we wouldn't have to mess with Exp Rank + Combat balancing, but if you want to talk about level leads, Ray has a sizable lead here that grows bigger when he gets staves (two functions > one in FE6's big maps). Speaking of staves, Ray is better for Exp Rank, just for your information. Base OJ gets ~57 Exp while a level 12 unit gets 37, and then the gap decreases since his level rises faster. So he adds like 200-300 points woo. Ray gives more with 50 uses of a Heal Staff (50 x 6 = 300), and after that he gets Mend. lol ggnore OJ, you even lose Exp. Looks like OJ's lost this debate before Ray even joins.
Lilina has 5 Mag and 4 Spd. And 2 Def/16 HP. ....In Chapter 8 . Lugh has more durability and does more damage (6 Spd) 5 chapters earlier. Lilina isn't bad because of having no supports (she has 10 lol), she's bad because she starts out as the worst unit on your team (alongside OJ/Knights). Everything on the map is OHKOing her. She can't stand in range of anything, she can't attack anything from up close due to taking a counter, she can't even stand in range of Hand Axe or Javelin, so she has to stay a step back from the guys who are already staying a step back. lol. On offense, she isn't even doubling Knights with Fire because they have 2-3 AS. She's useless. "hits like a bus full of fat people" is true in the lategame, but with 5 Mag base, she starts out hitting like a wagon full of anorexic dust bunnies. Besides, even if Lilina is in play, if the choice is between Ending her turn next to Roy or Ending her turn next to OJ, she's gonna pick Roy, so OJ isn't building this support fast all. And then there's Garret/Gonzales, who both want supports.
Level 15 Wyverns have 15 Def/43 HP. 20/1 HAND AXE OJ has 24 Atk with WTA, so that's 18 damage on a double, not even a 2-round. HAND AXES also drops his Hit btw, he'll have like 82-87 real, there goes his Hit advantage. (meanwhile Ray is one-rounding with Flux)
This is true for most of the game, but in the endgame (21x, when you get the Sword of Seals), Ray gets APOCALYPSE OMG THE END OF THE WORLD well not really, but for OJ it may as well be. Sophia is bad and Niime is worse than Ray (worse for Exp Rank, lower Atk/Spd, and gets OHKOed by Dragon Riders ftl), so there's no competition for it, it's free, and it's the best legendary because it has 1-2 range (no counters) and a TON of Mt--4 more than Forblaze, which is 12 more on an effective weapon, and then another 5 on top of that because of the Mag bonus, for a total of 17. I can see the complaints already. "but it's only 20 uses." "anyone with a legendary can kill the mamkutes." etc. But this is all false. The actual situation is this: Mamkutes have 64-70 HP, 23 Def, and 12-13 Res. Ray with his 26-27+5 Mag will be doing 72 damage per hit, an easy OHKO. Every other legendary user needs two hits. Durandal Dieck kills 10 Mamkutes with 20 uses and eats counters. Same for Armads Lot. Ray kills 20, no counters. Without Ray, you'd have no way to use Apcalypse, so that's +20 uses. And he just saved Dieck from having to kill 10 of them. So that's another 20 uses of a legendary. Yet another 20 for Armads. Even counting first-hit crits (second-hit crits won't do it), he's still adding a positive of ~50-55 uses, 20 of which you had no way of getting in the first place. Plus, you can use the legendaries on other enemies like Heroes/Generals, due to all the extra uses. Or Ray can just use Apocalypse on them. This General has 57 HP and 10 Res. Who on your team can 2hko it? 20/13ish Armads Gonzales has 28+18+1 - 24 Def = 23x2 = 46, nope. Forblaze Lugh? 19+14 = 33 - 10 Res = 23x2 = 46 (~52 with supports). Doesn't kill. But guess who does? 39x2 = 78. Hint: that's not OJ. So Ray has Apocalypse, and OJ has nothing, because there are so many Sword users in the game (Rutger, Fir, Dieck, even the Cavaliers, etc.) vying for Durandal. And you might think, oh, OK, so Ray is much better than OJ for 2 chapters, 50 uses, whatever. Doesn't matter, does it? But then you remember that we're dealing with mid-tier units, probably even worse than that. Even if OJ were better than Ray for the entire game up until this point (which he isn't), Ray would still be better overall, because OJ is never the best unit on your team. For the 50 uses during which Apocalypse exists, however, Ray is. He's as good as/better than the top tiers on your team like Rutger, Lance, Alan, Miledy, etc.
Who cares if he gains +1 or +5 stats from a level up? Not the team. The team could have just used a better unit instead.
Are you talking about OJ or Ray? Because OJ is the one relying on his hit to connect. If OJ misses something with 5 HP, (and yes he can miss with axes/steel sword) it's going to counterattack him and then kill him on the following turn. If Ray misses, he just takes one hit.
OJ dies in 2. Ray dies in 2. Ray doesn't take counters. Winner: Ray. 1-2 range also has all the usual advantages: Ray can attack from 12 spaces around an enemy, OJ can attack from 4; Ray can attack an enemy up to 7 spaces away, OJ only 6, etc. As for Nosferatu, Ray is self-sufficient with it even if he misses: Enemy Phase 1: Enemy hits Ray, he misses with Nosferatu. Player Phase 1: Ray attacks it back, doesn't take a counter, heals the damage. Enemy Phase 2: Ray's still ready to go. Meanwhile OJ might not miss but takes hits and has to be healed potentially two player phases in a row, awful gg OJ |
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| Reikken | Apr 23 2013, 09:37:13 PM Post #6 |
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== Inui ==
"Ogier is a somewhat reserved person, he often comes off as shy and respectful to others, often considering them to be of higher status then himself as he came from a dirt poor family. Ogier also is greatly motivated to train himself to protect everyone else. Lalum accuses him twice of being perverted in their support conversations, though with Lalum's crazy personality, it is unlikely without knowing what Ogier was thinking. However, he is very kind and has great moral obligations. " "Ogier - The Little Hero ![]() Ogier continued to travel around the world as a mercenary, and his name gradually spread across the continent as a great warrior. Even in his fame, he kept the utmost respect for his comrades in the war, saying that he never would have gotten as far as he did without their help. " fuck up nigga, he's a great guy, unlike selfish cuntbag Ray
Except lower Def growth, lower Def promotional gain, and 7 less HP.
Ahhh Solide-kun-chan desu your lack of playing this game really shows here qq... ;-; In my recent run, where I am easily crushing every rank, Fir joined after Oujay (middle of Chapter 9) and was already at level 16 during Ray's joining chapter...! And she never really faced a chance of death because she was used to pick off kills on axe guys and wasn't put in range of everyone, especially archers and lance guys. I'm going to have to strongly disagree with your level for Oujay here based upon that, as he joins before Fir and 2 levels higher. He will at least be level 15, which increases all of his parameters, notably avoid. I ain't big into crunching numbers because I don't attend no Harvard or anything, but I'm assuming 3 more avoid really makes a difference in this magical dual RN system, and his 1% chance of death becomes nothing or less than 1%. Let's be real here doe, Oujay is going to have a level lead on Ray, and Ray will never be as good for the Experience rank because Oujay can gain 9 more levels than him. Ray's 5 EXP from using Heal a few times doesn't counter the benefit of being able to gain 900 more EXP. Dude bro I love how you're implying that Ray gets to be out of range of the stuff that can OHKO him but Oujay has to face 4 enemies per turn or some shit. Let's play FE6 with protecting Ray and making Oujay fight all of the armies of Middle Earth alone! You said Oujay wasn't manly, but in these gameplay scenarios you're implying he's like Rambo or some shit.
dude bro where's Lilina the daughter of Hector and Roy's destined pussy "Oddity with Funds Due to the way the game handles the Funds Rank, it is possible to alter the ending requirements based on certain gameplay choices. This is because, even during the ending, when the game loads a different map for an event, the Funds Rank will use the Funds value of that map for its calculation. Listed below are all the possible outcomes for the Funds value / A Rank requirement during the ending: Epilogue -- 22 / 132,000G Epilogue* (Roy and Lilina do not have a A Support together) -- 22 / 132,000G Epilogue* (Roy and Lilina have a A Support together) -- 23 / 138,000G Epilogue** -- 14 / 84,000G As one can see, obtaining the best ending will make it much easier to obtain a good Funds Rank." whoa dude awesome it becomes way easier to A rank Funds if you get Lilina and Roy to A support that's cool man it makes using Lilina kinda neat like Matthew Silver Card status raping the Funds rank mhmmm good shit Lilina If we're starting a game of Fire Emblem 6 and have decided we're fielding Oujay, why ain't we fielding kawaii Lilina-chan!? She's not the best, but Roy supports her super fast due to their strong desire to fuck like rabbits, and Lilina is a very viable support for Oujay, who is supportless otherwise because everyone else from Ostia is assballs. Unless you're going to be a total faggot (which I'm sure you will be), I think using Lilina has been justified enough. MUST I QUOTE YOU SAYING SHE'S A GREAT BOSS KILLER AFTER BEING RAISED UP???
top lel, no way https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/v/376083_10152756038920285_2139733633_n.jpg?oh=dd6c10c949dcea2b299fae7dbe66c32b&oe=5174D414&__gda__=1366645291_fd6b43399d6a4582ef4ef8098bf22917 thankfully my nigga was playing some shit last night and was crying about status staffs and haha lookit dat 66 fucking Hit on his 14 Res Lugh, even units with good Res can't just freely run around and assume they'll never be hit by 'em Good thing Restore exists for both Oujay and Ray teehee~ You see that HP gap? After they both take a big hit from a magic user, they'll be at the same HP, except Oujay will have a lot more avoid. Cool.
This would be nice if he had 100 Hit on all enemies BUT SADLY HE DOES NOT. He has, even with C Lugh, 100 base Hit before enemy avoid. Random Cavalier X will have about 25 Avoid, making his Hit 70-80. If he misses ONE time, he can easily die. Meanwhile, Lancereaver Oujay (still way cheaper than Nosferatu Ray) laughs at all of the Cavaliers as they can't hit him, and then eventually he has axes to laugh even more. That's kinda Oujay's thing, huge avoid. Like a 20/10 Oujay in Murdock's chapter with B Lilina and a Killer Axe can't be hit by the Steel Axe niggas and then just one-rounds them easily most of the time. Ray has Nos, but tons less avoid (he can actually be hit) and dies if he misses once or he gets hit twice, and Silver Lance Wyvern Lords have good Hit and 40 Attack. GGs. Ray is only better than Oujay when he gets to spend 10x as much on weapons and your play style caters towards shielding him and having Oujay fight everyone on the map at once. Damn, sounds like GOD EMPRESS PANNE RULER OF WORLDS or something... |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qDiJkhUMfw http://myanimelist.net/profile/Reikken | http://www.last.fm/user/Reikken | |
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| Lemon | May 31 2013, 10:38:07 PM Post #7 |
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I didn't know you could change this
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So, are these like the two worst characters in the game, or...? |
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| Magus | Jun 1 2013, 12:29:55 AM Post #8 |
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titleless
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Nah. Both are okay I guess? Not gonna say more than that in case this ever continues! |
Come to GHEB!
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| Fishin4pigeon | May 20 2014, 08:12:36 PM Post #9 |
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ಠ_ಠ
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i liked this debate, I'm kinda disappointed it didn't |
[size=2]Shadow [/size]of the Emblem. Srsly.
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7:11 PM Jul 11