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| LotE Brawl Tournament (WiFi) | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 25 2009, 04:51:35 PM (600 Views) | |
| Nova | Oct 25 2009, 04:51:35 PM Post #1 |
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I'm gonna be hosting a LotE Brawl Tournament coming up soon. If you're interested, please register here in this format: #.) Name -- stage you're going to ban Please do not mention the character that you're going to use; this is not how Brawl tourneys work. Since most of you probably don't play tourneys, I'll illuminate the semantics of counterpicking for you: Rules of Sets: Each set will be out of 3 matches (except Winners' Finals, Losers' Finals, and Grand Finals, which will be out of 5). The first person to attain 2 victories will win the set. No items are allowed in sets for obvious reasons; the timer for each match will be set to 8 minutes. If, at the end of 8 minutes, both players are alive, the player with the lowest percent (or highest stock, if applicable) will win--Sudden Death does not bear any weight in official tournaments. The tournament is double elimination, so there is both a winners' and a losers' bracket. When the final participant in losers' bracket faces the final participant in winners' bracket, the person coming from losers' bracket must defeat the final participant in winners' bracket in two consecutive sets in order to eliminate him/her (since it is double elimination). The matches of a set: 1.) The first match will be played in a double-blind manner. This means that neither player will know beforehand what character his opponent will be using. This is simple on WiFi--just pick your characters and go. The first match MUST be played on a randomly chosen stage out of the three neutral stages--Battlefield, Final Destination, or Smashville. To choose one of these three stages randomly, please set your Random Stage Select Switch to choose from only these three stages. If you haven't unlocked all stages, then you won't be able to do this; in that case, please PM me and I will randomly select a stage for your first match. It is considered a breach of tournament honesty to simply pick the stage that you want to play on for the first match. 2.) The second match of the set will not be played in a double-blind manner. How the second match works: The winner of the previous match picks his character first. The winner MUST tell the loser which character he has picked. The loser of the previous match then counterpicks a character based on the winner's choice. Then, the loser of the previous match also counterpicks a stage for the two players to use. The loser MUST tell the winner which stage he is going to counterpick so that both players can play on the stage--the two players have to fight on that stage. The winner cannot select a different stage on his end. The counterpick stage can be any of the following: Battlefield Smashville Final Destination Frigate Orpheon Lylat Cruise Yoshi's Island Delfino Plaza Halberd Rainbow Cruise Jungle Japes Note: The counterpick stage cannot be a stage that the two players have previously played on unless both players explicitly agree to this Important note: If the loser desires, he or she may forego his or her right to counterpick a stage and simply choose to Random a neutral again; in this case, the winner _cannot_ change characters--he or she must use the same character that he or she used in the first match. The loser, however, may still select a different character. This is not regularly used as a method of counterpicking but is available. 3.) The third match will be similar to the second match except the winner and loser are now determined by the second match instead of the first match. If the same person wins both the first and second matches, there will be no third match, obviously. For Finals matches, just extrapolate the rules to five matches. During each set, you may declare one stage that you are going to ban for that particular set. You can declare this up until the point that your first match actually begins--once your first match begins, if you have not declared a stage to ban for that set, you can no longer do so and must play on all allowable stages. Singles: 1.) Player Five -- banning Jungle Japes 2.) Doubles: 1.) Player Five and Reikken - banning Lylat Cruise 2.) Note: Doubles will occur before Singles. Edited by Nova, Oct 25 2009, 06:52:03 PM.
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Oct 25 2009, 06:21:48 PM Post #2 |
Because now is only now.
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I'm in, though I'll need to get the Wii in my room and take a look at the game before I can pick a stage. That's just the stage we're going to ban for the first set, right? Also, when will this tournament start? I could probably use a bit of practice... |
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| Nova | Oct 25 2009, 06:45:48 PM Post #3 |
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Yes. Speaking to your second query: not very soon. You have time to practice. Also, as you may or may not know, port priority is very important--the character with the lower port number grabs the ledge first when both players are off the stage, for example. And if the two players try to grab each other at the same time, the player with the lowest port number will get the grab. Snake also cannot be killed at the top of the screen with his own grenades when he has a higher port number (not a lower, this time). In an ideal situation, for teams, one team would be P1 + P4 and the other would be P2 + P3 so as to balance out port priority issues. On WiFi, you cannot choose who receives which port--it's randomized. It's tough luck, I suppose, but there's nothing I can do. Edited by Nova, Oct 25 2009, 06:54:02 PM.
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| Hell if I know | Oct 25 2009, 07:10:33 PM Post #4 |
General
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In. I don't suppose I can pick rndom as a char. |
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| Nova | Oct 25 2009, 08:39:02 PM Post #5 |
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For the first match, since it's double-blind, you can certainly pick that. But for subsequent matches, since they involve counterpicking, no, you can't--your opponent has to know what character you're using before the match actually takes place in order to counterpick a stage (of course, if you're the one doing the counterpicking, then I suppose it doesn't matter). You can still ban a stage, however. In fact, please post the stage you're going to ban for the first set. Oh, also, guys, I want to speak to the issue of lag for a little. Lag is obviously a big problem on WiFi. The least amount of lag you can get in any situation is 6 frames per move, and that's only if you live on top of each other or something. So obviously there's a lot of lag. But this isn't really the issue. The main issue is that lag changes from second to second--one second, there may be 6 frames of lag, while the next second, there may be 10 frames. If it were consistent, like always 10 frames or something, then people could just adjust by pressing buttons 10 frames earlier than normal. But it's impossible to adjust to something that changes so often. Chaingrabs in particular get messed up. If lag is really an issue and causes the loss of a match (too much, for instance), I'll let you guys extend the 3-match sets to 5-match sets. But it must be by mutual agreement. I would also recommend _not_ playing as Dedede or Falco, both of whom rely on chaingrabbing--chaingrabbing does not work under lag, so these characters will not be their regular selves on WiFi. Well, both characters are still good, but they're not as good as they normally are. Edited by Nova, Oct 25 2009, 09:09:04 PM.
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Oct 25 2009, 09:00:14 PM Post #6 |
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Because now is only now.
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Do you have any recommendations for characters I should practice, other than Marth? |
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| Nova | Oct 25 2009, 09:13:32 PM Post #7 |
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Marth is a good choice. Watch MikeHAZE's Marth on youtube. That will improve your Marth considerably. In regular tourneys, if you main any of the following characters, you probably don't need a secondary: Meta Knight, Snake, Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong, Dedede, Marth, Game and Watch, Pikachu, Olimar, and Kirby (O.K., so you may still need a secondary if you main Dedede, because he has some rough matches). ZSS, Donkey Kong, and a few others can be done without a secondary, as well. Boss uses Luigi only and does great, for example. I don't know enough about Ice Climbers to know about secondaries, but I do know that Lain, the best ICs player, uses Dedede as a secondary for Snakes. For the WiFi tourney, that list pretty much still applies except that Diddy, Kirby, Falco, and Dedede have much harder times. Not to say that they're not good even on WiFi, but you may want to have a secondary if you main any of those because lag can rough them up pretty badly. If you main Meta Knight, eh, possibly. Lag can hurt you, but it's not as severe as it is for those four. Edited by Nova, Oct 25 2009, 09:15:31 PM.
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| Nova | Oct 25 2009, 09:55:57 PM Post #8 |
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I should probably also note two more things--first, infinites are not allowed--so infinite chaingrabs, for instance, are banned. The exception is Ice Climbers' 0 to death chaingrab, but you can't really use that under lag, anyway (consequently, ICs suck on WiFi). Second, I would REALLY REALLY REALLY recommend leaving Tap Jump ON. If Tap Jump is off, you can't up-b out of shield, which is an absolutely critical move for many characters (Marth, MK, etc.). |
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| DOUCHE | Oct 26 2009, 01:31:27 AM Post #9 |
Guy who is b7, for Great Justice.
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Ugh, vBrawl. Going back will be really weird for me. Totally in, though. Singles: 1.) Player Five -- banning Jungle Japes 2.) Feenix -- 3.) Cap'n -- 4.) Lemon -- banning Rainbow Cruise 5.) Reikken -- banning Frigate Orpheon Doubles: 1.) Player Five and Reikken - banning Lylat Cruise 2.) Feenix and ? 3.) Cap'n and ? 4.) Lemon and ? Edited by DOUCHE, Oct 26 2009, 02:17:47 AM.
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| Reikken | Oct 26 2009, 01:40:17 AM Post #10 |
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in banning Frigate Orpheon |
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| Nova | Oct 26 2009, 03:11:34 AM Post #11 |
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vBrawl? Lemon, do you play Brawl+? Maybe tourneys? |
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| DOUCHE | Oct 26 2009, 03:23:14 AM Post #12 |
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Guy who is b7, for Great Justice.
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Brawl+ yeah, but I'm not at the tourny level really, and Brawl+ isn't very popular around where I live at all, I've heard nothing of tourneys. Although me, my brother, and a few other friends play it a lot. |
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| Nova | Oct 26 2009, 03:25:34 AM Post #13 |
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Well I've never played you. I need an estimation of how good you are (in your own terms) because I'm going to seed the tournament according to skill level. You know, just so the best players don't knock each other out of the tourney early on--that would be a poor indication of skill. The best players will start out by playing the "worst" (I don't like the term, but it fits) players. That's the fairest way to do things. |
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| DOUCHE | Oct 26 2009, 03:59:02 AM Post #14 |
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Guy who is b7, for Great Justice.
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Okay, uh... Well, I never owned Melee, so I don't have a long-lasting foundation on the competitive aspects of the series. I DI and stuff, but I don't pull off many advanced techniques or anything super fancy. I'm like that guy that'll beat all his friends but get his ass kicked on the competitive scene. EDIT: Singles: 1.) Player Five -- banning Jungle Japes 2.) Feenix -- 3.) Cap'n -- 4.) Lemon -- banning Rainbow Cruise 5.) Reikken -- banning Frigate Orpheon 6.) Kenny -- banning Rainbow Cruise Doubles: 1.) Player Five and Reikken - banning Lylat Cruise 2.) Feenix and ? 3.) Cap'n and ? 4.) Lemon and Kenny -- banning Frigate Orpheon Edited by DOUCHE, Oct 26 2009, 04:04:02 AM.
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| Jackytf | Oct 26 2009, 04:37:04 AM Post #15 |
Alt, and son, of Okami
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Ooh, shiny. I'll delay signing up proper until I actually have my Wii up here, though. |
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R.I.P.: Lauder, the lv. 1 Shadowmaster Henreid, some lv. 9 Wanderer and Bobby, a lv. 1 Officer 
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| Hell if I know | Oct 26 2009, 05:57:08 AM Post #16 |
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talk about evening skill and pairing with Rei? Yeah, flower you too. Also, I ban no stages. |
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| DOUCHE | Oct 26 2009, 06:05:15 AM Post #17 |
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Guy who is b7, for Great Justice.
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So, I was practicing with Kenny. flower vBRAWL. I'll get to practicing or something. |
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| Nova | Oct 26 2009, 01:54:44 PM Post #18 |
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I hate to admit it, but vBrawl is a lot better than Brawl+ balancewise. Brawl+ is fun but really lol. Cap'n, what do you mean? How does pairing with Reikken conflict with "evening" skill? You only need to "even" skill in the bracket, not within the individual teams. I mean, if you have Ally and mew2king in the same tournament, you can't have them face off in the first round or else one would be sent to Losers' bracket too early, which would be a poor indication of that one's skill. So you put them on opposite ends of the bracket because they're the best. Besides, Reikken is not best Brawler here. If I wanted to pair with the best, I would just have paired with Sniper. and lol, sure, you can ban no stages. Important notice: Pokemon Stadium 1 and Castle Siege are also counterpick stages, but I forgot to add them to the list. I may make a few changes to the list after I test out the lag of certain stages. Edited by Nova, Oct 26 2009, 01:55:39 PM.
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| Wight | Oct 26 2009, 01:54:54 PM Post #19 |
Robin Goodfellow
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Can I join every match and stand in the background cheering? (aka Taunting) The problem with this is that if I take my Wii to college and participate, I won't have WiFi cause my college is evil and blocks it somehow for gaming systems. If I play it at home, I can only do it on weekends and no one wants to wait a week every time it's my turn to play. |
 If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended; That you have but slumber'd here, whilst these visions did appear . . . ~A Midsummer Night's Dream, Shakespeare~ ~Credit to Tiltyu of FESS for the banner~ | |
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| Nova | Oct 26 2009, 02:00:12 PM Post #20 |
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It's not starting until I get a TV, anyway. So you don't have to worry for now. |
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| Max_Stat_Boyd | Oct 26 2009, 08:28:43 PM Post #21 |
Menace to society
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In, banning the Frigate. |
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| Nova | Oct 26 2009, 09:49:51 PM Post #22 |
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I wonder how many people here are going to use Meta Knight in this tournament. I can't imagine it'd be a lot, because everyone is banning his best counterpick stages--lol. |
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| DOUCHE | Oct 27 2009, 04:22:23 AM Post #23 |
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Guy who is b7, for Great Justice.
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I disagree with the balance aspects of vBrawl, although I'm not familiar with it much anymore, so I can't argue on the matter. However, I do find Brawl+ to be the better fighting game overall. Maybe it's just because the buffer is raping me right now. |
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| LlednarTwem | Oct 27 2009, 04:28:07 AM Post #24 |
Biskmatar
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Oh, hey, I just noticed this! I also just rearranged my room and, in the process, lost my TV. I'll eventually be able to use my computer as a TV...but...not happening for a while. Meh, I suck at Brawl anyway. >_> |
| Dying breath, light my blade and sing in shadow! Omega! | |
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| Nova | Oct 27 2009, 07:20:31 PM Post #25 |
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Buffer? I only played it in its early stages when wavedashing was still around, but from what I can gather from tourney elites (mikehaze, sk92, etc.), the game still falls short of being competitively viable. Vanilla Brawl seems to be much more balanced (once people stop complaining about Meta Knight, which has already started to happen, thankfully, ever since Ally beat mew2king). Another thing--they removed stale move negation. Why would you do that? Stale moves encourage diversity, planning. That was the only aspect of Brawl I preferred to Melee. And they removed Dedede's chaingrab. V_V Panda had the right idea when he proposed that the elites of each character should propose changes to their character in order to make every character balanced. As it is right now, Brawl+ just seems to me to be a bunch of people striving no for balance but rather for "making other characters viable," which nerfs some characters. Edited by Nova, Oct 27 2009, 07:47:39 PM.
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Oct 28 2009, 04:37:16 AM Post #26 |
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Because now is only now.
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Thank goodness... I was on smashboards the other day, and I saw yet another topic about banning Metaknight while skimming the forums. I thought it would never stop... |
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| DOUCHE | Oct 28 2009, 05:13:22 AM Post #27 |
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Guy who is b7, for Great Justice.
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The buffer is the thing where you can hit buttons early and it'll pull the move off at the earlier moment possible. Basically, when Ike does his triple jab but gets shielded, then does his Nair to his death. In Brawl+ they removed the buffer for tighter controls, although they reworked the handicap to work the buffer if you want it, where 100 is the value of vBrawl, 10 is melee, and 0 is Brawl+. Well, it hasn't had a version out for a long time yet, because it's being constantly reworked. They released the latest version and said they're gonna leave it for a while so a metagame can develop properly, so that they know what needs to be reworked. The first goal was to make everyone viable, which is a good starting point because then it's an easier process to balance everything. Stale moves were a good idea, but it was a bit too extreme in vBrawl, imo. Marth's pretty gay without it, though. Luigi chaingrab -> ^B ftw. |
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| Nova | Oct 28 2009, 04:07:08 PM Post #28 |
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Oh, buffering. You should have said buffering. "Buffer" threw me off. That's actually fairly intuitive. It's also quite a big part of Ganondorf's game. As far as character balance, as far as I know, that hasn't happened yet; until it does, I don't think I'm going to play it. Also, at least not until it's implemented in more than a few tournies. |
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| DOUCHE | Oct 29 2009, 01:55:21 AM Post #29 |
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Guy who is b7, for Great Justice.
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Ganondorf in Brawl+ is much better, also the buffer is still available, and is actually controllable. I can't compare it to vBrawl for balance, but from the bit of vBrawl I've played in the last few days, I'm leaning towards Brawl+ for balance. Also it's just more fun and better overall. |
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| Nova | Oct 29 2009, 02:13:23 AM Post #30 |
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Where'd this come from? I never mentioned buffering in the context of Brawl+, nor Ganondorf.
And what do you base this on? Have you played regular Brawl in tournaments? I mean, really, without playing top-level Falcos, Snakes, Metas, etc., how can you possibly determine whether vBrawl is more or less balanced than Brawl+? Granted, I haven't played Brawl+, but I'm willing to trust the opinions of elites who have on the matter. I'm not trying to bash you for no tournament experience, but really, I can't see how you'd think Brawl+ is more balanced without having played Brawl at the competitive level.
More fun is of course subjective in any instance. Better in what way? Kashif says Brawl+ is shitty because there are a ton of infinites and absurdly broken combos/errors, and he plays it quite regularly (even at the tourney level). Edited by Nova, Oct 29 2009, 02:18:44 AM.
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| DOUCHE | Oct 29 2009, 02:32:17 AM Post #31 |
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I kinda jammed this part all together, but you said that the buffer is a big part of Gdorf's game in Brawl, but his Brawl+ game without buffering is better than his vBrawl game with it.
I haven't played Brawl in tourneys before, no. But I did play it with friends a fair amount and basically the three you named did a whole lot of raping. While in Brawl+ the fact that anyone is viable makes it more balanced from what I can tell.
The tighter controls are obviously a good thing, buffer control, etc. It's faster overall, which means more funs/minute. You can use the characters you like and stand a decent chance against MetaKnight, without liking Snake or Falco. Custom textures, for characters and stages, are wonderful. Music replacement is cool, too. PSA is cool but I don't like the current guys out there. Hitstun makes combos possible, which is always good in a fighter imo. A lot of stages have been rebalanced as well, like PKMN stadium doesn't do shit, Luigi's mansion auto-dies and never respawns, and New Pork became the Wifi waiting room. So, custom textures and speed, really. Although you can use GeckOS to implement a lot of those changes into vBrawl as well without changing the game, and without being gay like BBrawl.
Not a ton of infinites, but it's not prefect yet. I can't think of an infinite off the top of my head, but I haven't looked into everybody in detail either. Some characters with easy combos can rack up damage pretty damn fast, though. The only really broken one I can think of is Luigi's Dthrow -> Ub. |
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| Nova | Oct 29 2009, 02:49:06 AM Post #32 |
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Sure, but I was talking about buffering in regular Brawl, not in Brawl+, as well as Ganondorf.
lol custom textures. Right, huge tourney reason. As far as Meta Knight--do you know how many neutral or near-neutral match-ups Meta Knight has? It's not just Snake and Falco. It's like almost all of the upper tiers in Brawl. Watch mew2king vs. mikeHAZE--Meta Knight is reportedly Marth's worst match-up, yet Marth does absurdly well against Meta. Ice Climbers vs. Meta could be even. Diddy mains now claim Meta vs. Diddy is even. ZSS, Olimar, Sheik, Fox, Pikachu, etc. all have great chances against Meta. Now, you can't use Ganondorf or Falcon and stand a good chance against Meta, no. But it's certainly not just Snake and Falco. Which is why I said that you need to have played at the competitive level against Metas, Snakes, and Falcos to realize their strengths and weaknesses. Meta ultimately is so good because he doesn't have any _bad_ match-ups except possibly Snake--it's not that Meta wins all of his matches by a huge amount; it's that he doesn't _lose_ any. So you have a perfectly good chance against Meta with most characters. More funs/minute maybe increases the watching fun, but I play chess, one of the slowest games of all time, so this doesn't apply to me as for the actual playing. Hitstun is a negative thing for me. I don't like to lose 50% just because I made one mistake. Indeed, I think that limits options and overemphasizes tech skill; I'd rather have a slower game where I can think more and have my decisions be more intelligence- rather than impulse-based. But of course, this is why I play Brawl in the first place, rather than Melee, and I obviously look for different things in a fighter. Kashif didn't go on to elaborate the specific brokenness because of some baseball game, but I guess I'll ask again later. |
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| DOUCHE | Oct 29 2009, 03:03:30 AM Post #33 |
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It makes it way more fun, despite it not changing gameplay. It's like the reverse of removing all the FF characters from Dissidia, a game that is total fanservice but is fun because it's fanservice.
I'd say Brawl+ is much more of a toss-up though, because although many characters may do well against Meta Knight, they certainly aren't anywhere as good as him or as popular, whereas in Brawl+ you see a lot more variety because everyone is viable, and no-one really stands out like MK did in vBrawl.
Isn't Speedchess really popular, though? I'm not too fond of chess, it's alright but I never got too into it. Also, the lack of hitstun in vBrawl is a bit rediculous, imo. If you do a throw that deosn't send people really far then they can hit you back way before you can land a hit on them. You can airdodge just about everything, too. Hitstun =/= speed, and you could always do slowmo matches or whatever. You could probably get a code to scale it to whatever you want, too. |
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| Nova | Oct 29 2009, 03:29:30 AM Post #34 |
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Fox, Falco, Lucario. No one stands out? I'd say that's pretty clearly false even without playing the game, but I can't say more on the matter because of not having played it. And MK isn't even the best character in Brawl.
What? That's a good thing. That way the opponent has more options, and you have to predict more. It's not just "i hit you once, so now i get three more free hits because of my tech skill, whee," it's "I hit you once, and now I have to predict how you'll respond if I want to hit you again." Frankly, I quite prefer that.
OK, but they are indeed related, and as I said, I dislike both. Also, as long as we're on the subject of MK and tier placing, here are two upper-level tier lists for those of you are wondering whom to use in the tourney: Singles: Top Snake Meta Falco Wario Diddy Dedede High Marth Game and Watch Pikachu Olimar Kirby Doubles: Top Game and Watch Wario Meta High Snake Lucario Dedede Luigi |
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Oct 29 2009, 03:55:32 AM Post #35 |
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Because now is only now.
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So... how bad is Marth in doubles? Should I try another character? |
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| DOUCHE | Oct 29 2009, 03:55:33 AM Post #36 |
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Guy who is b7, for Great Justice.
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They seem pretty great in videos, but everyone's pretty great, so they're really nothing special. I have a harder time dealing with Wolf generally, but then that's probably because my friend's brother (Who mains Wolf) is better than my brother (Who mains Falco and Yoshit). I haven't checked up on vBrawl tiers in a long time, but last I checked MK was at the top and they were considering banning him in tournaments seriously. Obviously I'm outdated here based on the lists you posted.
It's more like "I hit you, you hit me". Or single hits then retreats. Unless you go for stuff that really sends them away. Most stuff in Brawl+ is escapable anyway, except marth. Marth combos are doom.
Speed I can understand, hitstun hate still seems a little weird to me, but whatever floats your boat I guess.
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Oct 29 2009, 03:58:55 AM Post #37 |
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Because now is only now.
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I can't comment much because I was never anywhere near a competitive level in Melee, but I kind of miss hitstun due to the Captain Falcon combos it enabled. But then, I guess I just miss Captain Falcon in general... |
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| DOUCHE | Oct 29 2009, 04:00:20 AM Post #38 |
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Guy who is b7, for Great Justice.
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He's really cool in Brawl+. DO IT FEENIX. |
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Oct 29 2009, 04:27:01 AM Post #39 |
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Because now is only now.
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But then I have to find an SD card and figure out what to do and I'm lazy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jjv6_WSdfA Watching this match after my Marth vs. Falco battle with Kenny in Smashville last night is a bit depressing. I mean, I know nobody could fight like that with the kind of lag we were having, but... |
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| Nova | Oct 29 2009, 04:30:51 AM Post #40 |
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No, I'm not talking about videos. I'm talking about actual elites who play this--Ally plays this game competitively, for instance (he won the last major Brawl+ tourney). You are talking about playing your brother and your friends. I would have much more to say on this if I actually played the game, but right now all I can say is I'll definitely take the words of elites over the words of people who don't play tournaments.
Those tiers are extremely retarded. They are based entirely on tournament results. The MK ban is also not supported by 90% of tournament elites--at the highest level, Snake is better than Meta Knight. Snake has no bad match-ups. Meta Knight has one bad match-up (Snake). Falco is theoretically better than Meta but lacks the empirical results to quite outstrip him. It used to be that Meta had twice the tourney top 8 wins that Snake had--now, it's like 25% more. Huge, sudden, rapid gap.
Um, no. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7EQzOahzhQ&feature=PlayList&p=0D544006374548FD&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16 This is May, so the commentary is a bit outdated, but I would like to note that top-level players will actually predict your movements, not just retreat. There's a lot of camping, yes, but that doesn't mean there isn't prediction and it's all retreats. Marth in Doubles . . . Marth is great in Singles. He's OK in doubles. Probably just below High Tier. Heck, though, you don't have to follow the tiers. I'm going to be using Ganondorf, for instance. |
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Oct 29 2009, 04:33:22 AM Post #41 |
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Because now is only now.
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Eh, I'll probably just stick with him, then.
...Wait, they are? I was looking at the smashboards tiers earlier, and I thought they were determined by voting or something like that... |
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| Nova | Oct 29 2009, 04:39:45 AM Post #42 |
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People vote according to Ankoku's tournament lists. |
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Oct 29 2009, 04:47:18 AM Post #43 |
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Because now is only now.
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So... the tier lists are kind of pointless. I mean, I guess there are worse ways to determine them, but... |
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| DOUCHE | Oct 29 2009, 04:59:16 AM Post #44 |
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Guy who is b7, for Great Justice.
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But they really aren't that dominating, not nearly as much as MK or Snake in vBrawl. They're probably a bit better than the rest, but they don't dominate or anything of the sort.
I know that people use other characters, but vBrawl seems pretty centered around only a few really really good characters, while Brawl+ you get a lot more variety. Perhaps it's that variety that keeps me blind to a few overpowering characters, though.
Well, it's obviously not all retreating, but there's a lot of it because the hitstun just makes vBrawl very defensive in nature, which is way too few funs/minute. Figuring out stuff can be fun, but I don't really think that fighting games should revolve around it. |
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| Nova | Oct 29 2009, 05:09:31 AM Post #45 |
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I dunno about you, but "funs/minute" for me is determined by the intensity of my thought during a particular minute, not how many hits I land.
Variety? It may seem that way to you now, but keep in mind that 1.) you don't play at the tourney level. at the lowest levels, yes, even Ganondorf can do well in vBrawl. no one is unviable at the non-tourney level. It's only at the tourney level that characters start becoming unviable. This is true of Brawl+ as well as vBrawl. It's true of any game. 2.) Brawl+ has an undeveloped metagame. When Brawl first came out, Meta Knight was Mid Tier, and most characters were deemed viable. Only Falcon was not viable at the tournament level. Yes, even Sonic players were shining. Blue placed high in tournaments with Sonic. Kashif 2-stocked my Meta Knight with his Sonic the first time I played it, and I was actually pretty good by then. Once the metagame of Brawl+ develops, shifts will occur. Look at Melee. Only four characters are really viable: Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth. And sometimes Peach/Falcon are used, but they do about as well as any mid tier in vBrawl. In vBrawl, at the tourney level, you can expect to do reasonably well (read: top 20 placings) with these characters: Meta Snake Falco Dedede Diddy Marth Game and Watch Pikachu ZSS Olimar Kirby Wario Lucario ROB Donkey Kong Luigi And did you watch the match? 80% of it involves no retreating. And if you only look at mew2king's side, 95%. Edited by Nova, Oct 29 2009, 05:10:12 AM.
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| DOUCHE | Oct 29 2009, 05:26:50 AM Post #46 |
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Guy who is b7, for Great Justice.
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On the other hand, my favourite sport is Professional Wrestling because of how flashy it is. (action action go go go)
Hold on a sec, I don't play at tourneys, and I'm not that great at the tourney level, but me and the guys I play with are at it, according to this one guy in the group who was a big tourney guy with Melee. Well, I think he was like 3rd in BC a lot, which doens't amount to much, but it's there.
In a way, you can say it's balanced because of it's undeveloped metagame. And as soon as there is a definitive metagame or imbalance, it'll get edited out. Which is the main beauty.
Crap.
Ass.
Damn it.
'flower'
Arg.
h8.
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Peeka > Pika
She can FALL INTO THE VOlD for all I care.
Cool.
Crap.
fml.
Cool.
w00t.
RAGE.
:thumbs up:
It was interesting and intense, yeah, but watching Brawl+ matches is way more interesting imo. Although the ending was pretty cool. |
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| Hell if I know | Oct 29 2009, 06:49:58 AM Post #47 |
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MArk is in as my partner, though not in for singles. He bans Frigate Orpheon. I also ban Rainbow Cruise |
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lessthanthree. | |
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| Nova | Oct 29 2009, 06:22:11 PM Post #48 |
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Teams can only ban one stage unless you mean rainbow cruise for singles btw Reikken |
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| Reikken | Oct 29 2009, 06:53:57 PM Post #49 |
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...? |
| NP: Ragnarok Online | |
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| Nova | Oct 29 2009, 07:51:07 PM Post #50 |
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im'd you |
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