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| Topic Started: Jul 28 2008, 06:44:58 AM (742 Views) | |
| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 28 2008, 06:44:58 AM Post #1 |
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This is a topick to post general announcements/things we need a lot of people's opinions on, because not everyone checks all the topics. Everyone involved in this project must check this. --- First order of business is something I've brought up liek half a dozen times and received no opinions on that I remember. This is the current list of colors and associated elements and emotions: Red: Blood, Love Orange: Fire, Anger Yellow: Animals, Happiness Green: Plants, Envy Blue: Water, Sorrow Purple: Air, Arrogance And now, the questions: Do we want red as fire and orange as earth or red as blood and orange as fire? Do we want fear as an emotion? If so, which color should it be? Yellow would work best IMO, but it's taken by happiness. Envy (green) is the one I dislike the most and would be most willing to kick out, but I don't know what to replace it with. (Other than tree-hugging >_>) Should love be replaced? Feenix suggested compassion, I suggested passion; I don't really like either of these. Compassion doesn't include love, and I think the replacement of love should; meanwhile, passion is too broad and includes anger, and we can't have overlaps. Suggestions? Yes, I believe this is relevant to everyone since color/emotion plays a large part in this RPG, and it's something people can have opinions on without requiring in-depth knowledge of what's been happening in the gameplay department. If people think this isn't that important, I'll move this back to Basic Planning, but I'll leave this topic here. |
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| CATZ | Jul 28 2008, 06:48:14 AM Post #2 |
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Earth sounds more legit and easier to work with than lolBlood. |
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| BookwormGamer | Jul 28 2008, 06:52:06 AM Post #3 |
Mr. Dictator of the Universe and BookwormGamer
![[s]Asian[/s] Columbi](http://209.85.122.89/11551/86//0/t15099/t15099.png)
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I agree, and if you don't like Envy, what about Calm? |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 28 2008, 06:56:31 AM Post #4 |
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Okay about the fire/earth. Bout calm: Hm... Well, first of all, green isn't really commonly associated with calm IMO. Also, some people were suggesting calm as a neutral emotion at one point; personally I don't agree, but if the majority do, then it isn't really fit to be an actual emotion. (Though it was what I had for blue originally.) |
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| CATZ | Jul 28 2008, 06:58:47 AM Post #5 |
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Yeah, calm sounds like not an emotion so much as a lack of emotion, or atleast self-control over your emotions. And compassion/pity sounds more legit than Love IMO, but that's a nitpick. |
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| BookwormGamer | Jul 28 2008, 06:59:15 AM Post #6 |
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Mr. Dictator of the Universe and BookwormGamer
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I thought calm might fit with the plants and nature aspect of it, though. Oh well, I agree. |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 28 2008, 07:02:20 AM Post #7 |
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Well, I don't think the elements are really supposed to relate with the emotions or anything. I'll go look around for replacements for love tomorrow, I guess. |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 28 2008, 06:28:00 PM Post #8 |
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Poked around thesaurus.com... Maybe fervor or ardor? I'm looking for something similar to passion but with more of a positive connotation. |
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| Wight | Jul 28 2008, 11:43:08 PM Post #9 |
Robin Goodfellow
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Zeal? It depends on what your perception of that word is. >_> |
 If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended; That you have but slumber'd here, whilst these visions did appear . . . ~A Midsummer Night's Dream, Shakespeare~ ~Credit to Tiltyu of FESS for the banner~ | |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 29 2008, 12:28:59 AM Post #10 |
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Yeah, it could be a bit negative. >_> I think I'm leaning towards ardor myself. |
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| Wight | Jul 29 2008, 01:00:16 AM Post #11 |
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Robin Goodfellow
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Ardor is passionate love, isn't it? =D |
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If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended; That you have but slumber'd here, whilst these visions did appear . . . ~A Midsummer Night's Dream, Shakespeare~ ~Credit to Tiltyu of FESS for the banner~ | |
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| BookwormGamer | Jul 29 2008, 01:05:11 AM Post #12 |
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Mr. Dictator of the Universe and BookwormGamer
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Why would people feel that in the middle of the battle? Are they going to be fighting succubi? >_> |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 29 2008, 01:06:57 AM Post #13 |
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YES No seriously, feenix brought up a similar point before. But the thing is, these emotions are supposed to exist and be affected/affect things outside of battle too. |
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| BookwormGamer | Jul 29 2008, 01:08:20 AM Post #14 |
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Mr. Dictator of the Universe and BookwormGamer
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So two characters got it going on, and then they were interrupted in the middle of it by a fight. [Looks at Character topic] Mior, Varinor, and Vont. 3 guys. |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 29 2008, 01:20:38 AM Post #15 |
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Come book, you know love isn't just about sex! ...Or is it... No really, ardor is a lot more than gay sex. Or you can think of something better, that works too. |
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| BookwormGamer | Jul 29 2008, 01:23:48 AM Post #16 |
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Mr. Dictator of the Universe and BookwormGamer
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The thing is, I can't. And I'll try and come up with some characters. Though I haven't done one of these profiles in a while, so it feels kind of awkward for me to write characters in that format now, making me, as Wight pointed out, turn to some previous ones. >_> |
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| Wight | Jul 29 2008, 01:41:00 AM Post #17 |
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Robin Goodfellow
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I'll try and see if I can make some, too. I think passion is just fine. Or enthusiasm, which is broad enough that it could just be being pumped for a fight. |
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If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended; That you have but slumber'd here, whilst these visions did appear . . . ~A Midsummer Night's Dream, Shakespeare~ ~Credit to Tiltyu of FESS for the banner~ | |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 29 2008, 02:11:15 AM Post #18 |
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Passion I still don't want because of the way it overlaps with anger, but enthusiasm could work too... Actually, I was considering that (a while ago outside of LotE) a while ago, I don't know what happened to that. >_> If we do use enthusiasm, I think it would work better as orange and have anger for red. Also... Did we get a consensus about white/black? |
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| CATZ | Jul 29 2008, 05:46:30 AM Post #19 |
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The only votes I count on the white/black issue are me and you against and Book for, so ATM, it's 2 to 1 against. Compassion/pity or something like that for Red, with the emotion perhaps improving the quality of your buff spells, or your ability to cover for and take hits for another character, for fighters? Just an idea. If not, then I say use Passion. Sure, it overlaps with anger, but so does something like Envy. Alot of emotions can overlap with other emotions. Human emotions are very much a gray area, they're complex, not cut-and-dry. |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 29 2008, 06:22:06 AM Post #20 |
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Hm, okay. I'm kind of leaning towards Passion or Ardor atm... |
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| BookwormGamer | Jul 29 2008, 03:28:21 PM Post #21 |
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Mr. Dictator of the Universe and BookwormGamer
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I'm not really FOR IT for it, concerning the white/black thing. I just thought that you guys were basing your disapproval of it too much of it being cliched, when I was pointing out it doesn't necessarily have to be. |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 29 2008, 04:11:53 PM Post #22 |
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The thing I thought was cliched was having the protagonist be white/light and the antagonist be black/dark. The main thing I have against white/black in general is that black/dark doesn't make sense. How do you attack someone with the absence of light? Dark makes no sense as an element. On the other hand, I'd be fine with having white, as some extra speshul color (you can get white magic after getting to lvl 5 in all other colors or something). |
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| Wight | Jul 29 2008, 05:35:38 PM Post #23 |
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Robin Goodfellow
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Err. It already doesn't make sense. >_> How do you attack someone with a specific wavelength of light? "Haaa! Ultraviolet! In 40 years, you will develop melanoma! HAHAHAHAHAHAH." White being a powerup of all positive emotion and black being a powerup of all negative emotion would probably work . . . If you don't mind the cliche. The cliche way around the cliche would be for white to represent law and order, but also rigidity and oppression, while black represents chaos and instability, but also creativity and freedom. |
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If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended; That you have but slumber'd here, whilst these visions did appear . . . ~A Midsummer Night's Dream, Shakespeare~ ~Credit to Tiltyu of FESS for the banner~ | |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 29 2008, 05:47:03 PM Post #24 |
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SKIN CANCER HURRRR Anyway, the way Book came up with is that the mages extract magic from the light or some such. My idea for white would be light (element) and all emotions (as all colors -> white). A big problem with black is what its element would be. |
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| Wight | Jul 29 2008, 05:51:19 PM Post #25 |
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Robin Goodfellow
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Oh, I see what you mean. You just don't like the concept of Darkness, period. I don't really think that's a big problem; tons of RPs have a Darkness/Shadow element. If you want to think about it as sort of draining of color/emotion (draining of the soul), that seems pretty damaging to me. Chrono Trigger had Laser attacks being Shadow element, and there are always things like Flux, Life Drain, Black Hole, etc. that are miscellaneous things usually associated with a darkness element. |
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If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended; That you have but slumber'd here, whilst these visions did appear . . . ~A Midsummer Night's Dream, Shakespeare~ ~Credit to Tiltyu of FESS for the banner~ | |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 29 2008, 05:57:58 PM Post #26 |
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Yeah, but I still don't agree with the whole darkness element thing, "everyone else does it" isn't an excuse. It also doesn't fit with the idea Book came up with to explain how the whole color magic system works. |
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| Wight | Jul 29 2008, 06:06:48 PM Post #27 |
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Robin Goodfellow
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I think when you're dealing with something like magic, "somebody else has done it" is a very good excuse, since that means it works. As for Book's idea, if you can make up mages who draw magic from light, it's probably not too far of a reach to make up an mage who draws a form of negative magic from darkness. |
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If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended; That you have but slumber'd here, whilst these visions did appear . . . ~A Midsummer Night's Dream, Shakespeare~ ~Credit to Tiltyu of FESS for the banner~ | |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 29 2008, 06:38:24 PM Post #28 |
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It worked as in the game cartridge didn't asplode, yes, but that doesn't mean we can't do better. You can't draw from something that isn't there. Dark isn't anything, it's a lack of light. |
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| CATZ | Jul 29 2008, 06:39:58 PM Post #29 |
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I'm not only aware of the fact that it's cliche, but also the problems of how it would be implemented in gameplay. IMO there needs to be a better reason for programming two entirely new magic types than simply because someone wants their chars to use them story-wise. |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 29 2008, 06:43:19 PM Post #30 |
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The other reason is that feenix wants it. >_> Although I still don't mind the idea of white myself. |
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| BookwormGamer | Jul 29 2008, 08:36:39 PM Post #31 |
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Mr. Dictator of the Universe and BookwormGamer
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Just leave the dark magic out, alright? >_> And part of the point of having the protagonist use the light magic and the antagonist use the dark magic is because neither were going to have pure intentions, and the protagonist would willingly betray the group for the antagonist's side if it meant getting the Three Tears. Sort of a "you think it's this stereotype but then I force you out of it" approach, only it's not as basic as I just made it. Basically, what I proposed is that since different wavelengths produce different amounts of energy, different colors have different energy in them necessary to perform certain spells, and certain emotions allow mages to access certain wavelengths easier. |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Jul 29 2008, 08:42:20 PM Post #32 |
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Okay to everything. On the subject of white, yes/no? |
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Aug 2 2008, 04:08:38 AM Post #33 |
quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
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Marshmallows are awesome. ...Also, on a completely unrelated and off topic note, I'll try to read this yet again and offer my opinions. |
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Aug 2 2008, 04:33:22 AM Post #34 |
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quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
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...Sorry, I really have no idea what to say on this. >_> If it's not too much trouble, do you think you could post your general opinion on the emotions and elements so far? |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Aug 2 2008, 04:57:58 AM Post #35 |
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Is that at everyone? |
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Aug 2 2008, 04:59:05 AM Post #36 |
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quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
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Well, I mostly meant it towards you since you're the one who came up with these ideas and seem to have been doing the most work on them, though it would be helpful if anyone did it. |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Aug 2 2008, 05:15:41 AM Post #37 |
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Okay, the things I think need to be changed from what I had in the original post: Red should be fire, oj earth. Red should be ardor or compassion or some such; alternatively, make red anger and orange enthusiasm or something similar. I still don't like green as envy, but can't think of anything to replace it. I still would like fear as an emotion, but if we put it as yellow there's nowhere for happiness to go. |
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Aug 2 2008, 05:42:16 AM Post #38 |
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quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
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I personally think it would be most fitting if fire was the same color as anger, but maybe that's just me... also, about earth, it might seem a bit redundant since we have plants and animals already, and all three of those are typically associated with nature. Maybe keep earth, combine animals and plants into nature or something like that, and come up with a new element?
I agree with changing love to something similar, but... ardor seems completely different than what I originally had in mind for the emotion to do, and like you said compassion isn't quite the same as love. It's still the best thing I can think of, though.
Same here. >_>
 Well, it's not really the same, but... we could replace sorrow with despair, or something like that. |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Aug 2 2008, 05:47:09 AM Post #39 |
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Meh, the emotion and element don't necessarily have to correlate anyway. Hm... Red as blood, Oj as fire, yellow as earth, and green as nature? I don't mind the idea in general, but there seem to be a lot of gameplay things (in terms of skills and such) we could do with animals and plants individually, so if we combined them things would have to be cut.
I don't think ardor is that far off from love, especially relative to compassion. But I dunno.
Meh, I think sorrow is fine as it is, and despair doesn't really cover fear anyway... Mainly I just want to kick out envy. |
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| Phoenix_Kensai | Aug 2 2008, 05:58:57 AM Post #40 |
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quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
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That's true, but... I think it might be best to try to keep some correlation if we can, just so we would be able to base the physical classes on something that corresponds to the color in general rather than having to chose either mind or spirit.
...Well, I honestly can't think of much we could do with plants, myself. >_> I'm fine with this idea, though, and we could always have the body class be the animal summoning/shapeshifting-oriented class, and the mind class be focused on plants.
Well, I guess it's just that compassion fits a lot better with what I intended for love to do than ardor does... I thought it would be a more defensive status that improves abilities that aid allies. We could always change it, though.
I kind of want to, as well, mainly since I can't think of what it could possibly affect in battle. >_> |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Aug 2 2008, 06:07:28 AM Post #41 |
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Oh, I was under the impression that phys classes would be going with only elements, not emotions, though I guess it would be okay if we did both, but it would be another thing to think about when deciding on elements/emotions.
I think there's quite a few status things you could do with plants for mind... And anyway, a lot of classic elements like fire aren't very versatile either.
Mm, I guess. I just wish we had something that would include love, so that if we have some sort of romantic subplot (I'm sure we'll have at least one), we can have that affect character(s)' love/somethingelse stat.
Yeah... The only thing I can think of is make the chara change to a different chara's stats or something, but that seems weak and I don't want any emotion to be different from the others like that. |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Aug 2 2008, 06:33:26 AM Post #42 |
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Yeah guys, you're on, please come and help us resolve this so we can get moving with classes. |
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| BookwormGamer | Aug 2 2008, 06:35:06 AM Post #43 |
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Mr. Dictator of the Universe and BookwormGamer
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I don't exactly know much about balancing gameplay...what's the problem? |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Aug 2 2008, 06:41:29 AM Post #44 |
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Mainly, we want to confirm colors and their emotions and elements. If you don't want to read through the posts, these are the main things I'd like opinions on: -Red as fire and orange as earth (as ground/dirt kind of thing) (you may have agreed to this earlier, don't remember) -A replacement for red emotion, currently love? Suggestions have included passion, compassion, and ardor. -A replacement for green emotion, currently envy? I'd also like to include fear, which should be yellow; the only thing I could think of would to then make happiness green. |
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| BookwormGamer | Aug 2 2008, 06:47:01 AM Post #45 |
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Mr. Dictator of the Universe and BookwormGamer
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[quote[-Red as fire and orange as earth (as ground/dirt kind of thing) (you may have agreed to this earlier, don't remember)[/quote] Yep, agreed.
I think love is fine...although if you want fear, do you have courage? Anger?
Then make happiness green. |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Aug 2 2008, 06:48:58 AM Post #46 |
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We have anger. But we don't need opposites for emotions, necessarily... I was arguing with Feenix and (a while ago) Luneth about that, go check out Basic Planning if you want to read about it/offer a basic opinion.
Mm, maybe, I just wasn't sure how well green would work as happiness... But I guess it's better than being stuck with envy. |
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| BookwormGamer | Aug 2 2008, 06:50:27 AM Post #47 |
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Mr. Dictator of the Universe and BookwormGamer
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Well, orange doesn't really work with earth, but I'm fine with that. So happiness being green is fine by me. |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Aug 2 2008, 06:52:23 AM Post #48 |
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Actually, orange does work with earth, because a typical brown like: http://www.sheepsheadnyc.com/images/brown-mens-birds.jpg is really just dark, fairly unsaturated orange. |
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| BookwormGamer | Aug 2 2008, 06:57:20 AM Post #49 |
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Mr. Dictator of the Universe and BookwormGamer
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Well, in that case...um... Your username is green. And you've felt happy before in your life, right? So there! |
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| Arkady Ivanovich Svidrigailov | Aug 2 2008, 07:21:57 AM Post #50 |
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Perfect logic, book! >_> |
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