|
anti-bullying/self defense clarification; suspended for defending self?
|
|
Topic Started: Nov 13 2006, 08:45 PM (2,879 Views)
|
|
garfield
|
Nov 18 2006, 01:26 PM
Post #46
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 68
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #452
- Joined:
- August 10, 2006
|
- loyaltolivonia
- Nov 17 2006, 09:43 PM
- loyaltolivonia
- Nov 17 2006, 01:48 PM
- chickmunk
- Nov 17 2006, 01:43 PM
- loyaltolivonia
- Nov 17 2006, 10:44 AM
The teacher acknowleged that there were indeed 6 suspended, but only mentioned the 4 from the fight...
Oh. Because I thought maybe one of the 2 in question was actually the kid who got beat up being suspended for "participating" in getting his own butt kicked..... <_<
Funny, but kind of not funny
 I really hope the kid on the recieving end did not get suspended, but I really don't know. I will ask my friend and see if she knows.
I talked to my friend and found out that the other two kids were not involved in that fight. 1 kid was suspended for threatening someone with a plastic knife and the other kid was suspended for hitting another kid on the bus. The kid that got beat up was not suspended. He couldn't even fight back because he was on the ground getting kicked
 :angry: From what she says, her son told her it all happened very quickly. The boy that got beat up is o.k. although his ribs hurt and his leg was sore. Don't tell me this is not new, the fighting and bullying, because for my family and a lot of others around here, it IS new. We have never experienced this escalated form of bullying and we are trying to figure out how best to deal with it.
Rumors! Rumors! Rumors!
The only people who know what happened to each kid in a situation is the administration and each indiv. child's family.
It is an issue of confidentiality to discuss other student's behavior and consequences with anyone, but that child and their guardians.
So, unless your friend is an administrator at that school or a parent of all those children, I highly doubt they know what was done to each student involved in the incident. Children talk, but most of the stuff they say is not completely accurate and is full of false info. and rumors.
|
|
|
| |
|
NFarquharson
|
Nov 18 2006, 02:22 PM
Post #47
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 4,311
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #103
- Joined:
- November 9, 2005
|
- garfield
- Nov 18 2006, 01:26 PM
The only people who know what happened to each kid in a situation is the administration and each indiv. child's family.
I completely disagree with you on that. Unless the administrator actually witnessed the entire incedent, which is unlikely, he/she has probably come to a conclusion about what happened by:
1) hearing it from a teacher or teachers that witnessed some or all of what happened it or
2) hearing from teachers that talked to the children involved or
3) talking to the children involved themselves
The children are most likely the ones that really know the whole story and it is not unusual for them to leave out important pieces of information when re-telling the story to an adult, whether that adult is a teacher, principal or a parent. You have to ask the right questions...many questions....and dig out the details to truely understand the dynamics, which is something that teachers on a playground who are trying to stop a fight are probably unlikely to be able to do. It is human nature to jump to conclusions based on what you see yourself, which is why the kid that hits back after being hit is sometimes the one that gets in trouble. Teachers, parents and prinipals sometimes don't get the whole story and can make mistakes in judgement. No one is immune from that.
|
|
|
| |
|
cmic
|
Nov 18 2006, 02:50 PM
Post #48
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 1,530
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #217
- Joined:
- December 11, 2005
|
You are dead on Nancy. As a teacher I hope I am asking the right questions but many times I do respond to what I see. Great reminder. I will try to be more mindful in the future too.
|
|
|
| |
|
livoniafootballmom
|
Nov 18 2006, 04:20 PM
Post #49
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 157
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #431
- Joined:
- July 27, 2006
|
- NFarquharson
- Nov 18 2006, 02:22 PM
- garfield
- Nov 18 2006, 01:26 PM
The only people who know what happened to each kid in a situation is the administration and each indiv. child's family.
I completely disagree with you on that. Unless the administrator actually witnessed the entire incedent, which is unlikely, he/she has probably come to a conclusion about what happened by: 1) hearing it from a teacher or teachers that witnessed some or all of what happened it or 2) hearing from teachers that talked to the children involved or 3) talking to the children involved themselves The children are most likely the ones that really know the whole story and it is not unusual for them to leave out important pieces of information when re-telling the story to an adult, whether that adult is a teacher, principal or a parent. You have to ask the right questions...many questions....and dig out the details to truely understand the dynamics, which is something that teachers on a playground who are trying to stop a fight are probably unlikely to be able to do. It is human nature to jump to conclusions based on what you see yourself, which is why the kid that hits back after being hit is sometimes the one that gets in trouble. Teachers, parents and prinipals sometimes don't get the whole story and can make mistakes in judgement. No one is immune from that.
You are right to some extent Nancy, however, the administrators, teachers and other staff members that investigate these kinds of things are trained to ask the right questions. They ask the questions over and over again. They don't take the responsibility lightly and in many cases spend hours investigating an incident before ANY decision is made on who is disciplined and how they are disciplined.
|
|
|
| |
|
fyi
|
Nov 18 2006, 04:33 PM
Post #50
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 2,738
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #206
- Joined:
- December 9, 2005
|
Is everyone familiar with the "Debug" system that LPS uses?
It encourages the kids to work out their own problems before contacting an adult.
Works great on bullies!
It's something like this:
1. Look Away. 2. Walk Away. 3. Ask them to stop in a friendly voice. 4. Ask them to stop in a firm voice. 5. Get adult help
|
|
|
| |
|
NFarquharson
|
Nov 18 2006, 07:34 PM
Post #51
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 4,311
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #103
- Joined:
- November 9, 2005
|
- livoniafootballmom
- Nov 18 2006, 04:20 PM
- NFarquharson
- Nov 18 2006, 02:22 PM
- garfield
- Nov 18 2006, 01:26 PM
The only people who know what happened to each kid in a situation is the administration and each indiv. child's family.
I completely disagree with you on that. Unless the administrator actually witnessed the entire incedent, which is unlikely, he/she has probably come to a conclusion about what happened by: 1) hearing it from a teacher or teachers that witnessed some or all of what happened it or 2) hearing from teachers that talked to the children involved or 3) talking to the children involved themselves The children are most likely the ones that really know the whole story and it is not unusual for them to leave out important pieces of information when re-telling the story to an adult, whether that adult is a teacher, principal or a parent. You have to ask the right questions...many questions....and dig out the details to truely understand the dynamics, which is something that teachers on a playground who are trying to stop a fight are probably unlikely to be able to do. It is human nature to jump to conclusions based on what you see yourself, which is why the kid that hits back after being hit is sometimes the one that gets in trouble. Teachers, parents and prinipals sometimes don't get the whole story and can make mistakes in judgement. No one is immune from that.
You are right to some extent Nancy, however, the administrators, teachers and other staff members that investigate these kinds of things are trained to ask the right questions. They ask the questions over and over again. They don't take the responsibility lightly and in many cases spend hours investigating an incident before ANY decision is made on who is disciplined and how they are disciplined.
I spend a lot of time conducting investigations and advising others who are conducting investigations into allegations of misconduct as a part of my job. It certainly is an art form to some extent and even though my collegues and I have all been trained and have learned through experience, some people are much better than others at conducting investigations.
|
|
|
| |
|
loyaltolivonia
|
Nov 18 2006, 10:54 PM
Post #52
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 1,626
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #214
- Joined:
- December 10, 2005
|
- garfield
- Nov 18 2006, 01:26 PM
- loyaltolivonia
- Nov 17 2006, 09:43 PM
- loyaltolivonia
- Nov 17 2006, 01:48 PM
- chickmunk
- Nov 17 2006, 01:43 PM
- loyaltolivonia
- Nov 17 2006, 10:44 AM
The teacher acknowleged that there were indeed 6 suspended, but only mentioned the 4 from the fight...
Oh. Because I thought maybe one of the 2 in question was actually the kid who got beat up being suspended for "participating" in getting his own butt kicked..... <_<
Funny, but kind of not funny
 I really hope the kid on the recieving end did not get suspended, but I really don't know. I will ask my friend and see if she knows.
I talked to my friend and found out that the other two kids were not involved in that fight. 1 kid was suspended for threatening someone with a plastic knife and the other kid was suspended for hitting another kid on the bus. The kid that got beat up was not suspended. He couldn't even fight back because he was on the ground getting kicked
 :angry: From what she says, her son told her it all happened very quickly. The boy that got beat up is o.k. although his ribs hurt and his leg was sore. Don't tell me this is not new, the fighting and bullying, because for my family and a lot of others around here, it IS new. We have never experienced this escalated form of bullying and we are trying to figure out how best to deal with it.
Rumors! Rumors! Rumors! The only people who know what happened to each kid in a situation is the administration and each indiv. child's family. It is an issue of confidentiality to discuss other student's behavior and consequences with anyone, but that child and their guardians. So, unless your friend is an administrator at that school or a parent of all those children, I highly doubt they know what was done to each student involved in the incident. Children talk, but most of the stuff they say is not completely accurate and is full of false info. and rumors.
WOW! Thanks garfield. I believe you just called me and one of the boy's who was invloved (AND his mom) a liar?!?!
SIX kids in one classroom at Johnson have been suspended....FACT!
FOUR of those kids were from the fight.....FACT!
The boy who got beat up is not suspended.....FACT!
Sorry if YOU don't believe this or still think everything is 'just grand' at the giant 5/6 schools, but like it or not, this is fact and parents should know what is going on there. I think it is WRONG for things to be kept hush-hush just to make it look like things are just great at the schools. They are not great.....IMO :angry:
Have a great night garfield and next time perhaps you can leave out the "Rumors! Rumors! Rumors!" comment and you won't sound so offensive
|
|
|
| |
|
livoniafootballmom
|
Nov 18 2006, 11:46 PM
Post #53
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 157
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #431
- Joined:
- July 27, 2006
|
- NFarquharson
- Nov 18 2006, 07:34 PM
- livoniafootballmom
- Nov 18 2006, 04:20 PM
- NFarquharson
- Nov 18 2006, 02:22 PM
- garfield
- Nov 18 2006, 01:26 PM
The only people who know what happened to each kid in a situation is the administration and each indiv. child's family.
I completely disagree with you on that. Unless the administrator actually witnessed the entire incedent, which is unlikely, he/she has probably come to a conclusion about what happened by: 1) hearing it from a teacher or teachers that witnessed some or all of what happened it or 2) hearing from teachers that talked to the children involved or 3) talking to the children involved themselves The children are most likely the ones that really know the whole story and it is not unusual for them to leave out important pieces of information when re-telling the story to an adult, whether that adult is a teacher, principal or a parent. You have to ask the right questions...many questions....and dig out the details to truely understand the dynamics, which is something that teachers on a playground who are trying to stop a fight are probably unlikely to be able to do. It is human nature to jump to conclusions based on what you see yourself, which is why the kid that hits back after being hit is sometimes the one that gets in trouble. Teachers, parents and prinipals sometimes don't get the whole story and can make mistakes in judgement. No one is immune from that.
You are right to some extent Nancy, however, the administrators, teachers and other staff members that investigate these kinds of things are trained to ask the right questions. They ask the questions over and over again. They don't take the responsibility lightly and in many cases spend hours investigating an incident before ANY decision is made on who is disciplined and how they are disciplined.
I spend a lot of time conducting investigations and advising others who are conducting investigations into allegations of misconduct as a part of my job. It certainly is an art form to some extent and even though my collegues and I have all been trained and have learned through experience, some people are much better than others at conducting investigations.
You are right some people are better at these things than others, as with all aspects of any job. Some people are better at things than others, that's why the district has more than one person doing the investigations and asking the questions. It becomes a collaborative effort and most often not always, (nothing and no one is perfect) the outcome is determined fairly. But the outcome should still remain confidential, and other people should not be privy to the punishment that any other child receives as the result of the investigation. It's called confidentiality and I am sure that most people would not want their business broadcast for everyone to know what happened.
|
|
|
| |
|
NFarquharson
|
Nov 18 2006, 11:50 PM
Post #54
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 4,311
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #103
- Joined:
- November 9, 2005
|
- livoniafootballmom
- Nov 18 2006, 11:46 PM
- NFarquharson
- Nov 18 2006, 07:34 PM
- livoniafootballmom
- Nov 18 2006, 04:20 PM
- NFarquharson
- Nov 18 2006, 02:22 PM
- garfield
- Nov 18 2006, 01:26 PM
The only people who know what happened to each kid in a situation is the administration and each indiv. child's family.
I completely disagree with you on that. Unless the administrator actually witnessed the entire incedent, which is unlikely, he/she has probably come to a conclusion about what happened by: 1) hearing it from a teacher or teachers that witnessed some or all of what happened it or 2) hearing from teachers that talked to the children involved or 3) talking to the children involved themselves The children are most likely the ones that really know the whole story and it is not unusual for them to leave out important pieces of information when re-telling the story to an adult, whether that adult is a teacher, principal or a parent. You have to ask the right questions...many questions....and dig out the details to truely understand the dynamics, which is something that teachers on a playground who are trying to stop a fight are probably unlikely to be able to do. It is human nature to jump to conclusions based on what you see yourself, which is why the kid that hits back after being hit is sometimes the one that gets in trouble. Teachers, parents and prinipals sometimes don't get the whole story and can make mistakes in judgement. No one is immune from that.
You are right to some extent Nancy, however, the administrators, teachers and other staff members that investigate these kinds of things are trained to ask the right questions. They ask the questions over and over again. They don't take the responsibility lightly and in many cases spend hours investigating an incident before ANY decision is made on who is disciplined and how they are disciplined.
I spend a lot of time conducting investigations and advising others who are conducting investigations into allegations of misconduct as a part of my job. It certainly is an art form to some extent and even though my collegues and I have all been trained and have learned through experience, some people are much better than others at conducting investigations.
You are right some people are better at these things than others, as with all aspects of any job. Some people are better at things than others, that's why the district has more than one person doing the investigations and asking the questions. It becomes a collaborative effort and most often not always, (nothing and no one is perfect) the outcome is determined fairly. But the outcome should still remain confidential, and other people should not be privy to the punishment that any other child receives as the result of the investigation. It's called confidentiality and I am sure that most people would not want their business broadcast for everyone to know what happened.
Parents do not have the same responsibility to keep it confidential as the school does, but despite that, no names are being used here. I think everyone understands that would be going too far.
|
|
|
| |
|
Mrs.M
|
Nov 19 2006, 12:06 AM
Post #55
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 849
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- October 29, 2005
|
I would want to know the environment my child is in. I appreciate knowing what is going on. It then becomes an opportunity for helping my child know what is right, wrong. Ignorance is not bliss.
|
|
|
| |
|
fyi
|
Nov 19 2006, 12:11 AM
Post #56
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 2,738
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #206
- Joined:
- December 9, 2005
|
You're right, Mrs. M. If not for this forum, parents would be unaware of the many negative things that are occurring at our "new and improved" schools. I doubt that the district would be informing us.....they only report happy things. :rolleyes:
|
|
|
| |
|
livoniafootballmom
|
Nov 19 2006, 07:51 AM
Post #57
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 157
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #431
- Joined:
- July 27, 2006
|
- NFarquharson
- Nov 18 2006, 11:50 PM
- livoniafootballmom
- Nov 18 2006, 11:46 PM
- NFarquharson
- Nov 18 2006, 07:34 PM
- livoniafootballmom
- Nov 18 2006, 04:20 PM
- NFarquharson
- Nov 18 2006, 02:22 PM
- garfield
- Nov 18 2006, 01:26 PM
The only people who know what happened to each kid in a situation is the administration and each indiv. child's family.
I completely disagree with you on that. Unless the administrator actually witnessed the entire incedent, which is unlikely, he/she has probably come to a conclusion about what happened by: 1) hearing it from a teacher or teachers that witnessed some or all of what happened it or 2) hearing from teachers that talked to the children involved or 3) talking to the children involved themselves The children are most likely the ones that really know the whole story and it is not unusual for them to leave out important pieces of information when re-telling the story to an adult, whether that adult is a teacher, principal or a parent. You have to ask the right questions...many questions....and dig out the details to truely understand the dynamics, which is something that teachers on a playground who are trying to stop a fight are probably unlikely to be able to do. It is human nature to jump to conclusions based on what you see yourself, which is why the kid that hits back after being hit is sometimes the one that gets in trouble. Teachers, parents and prinipals sometimes don't get the whole story and can make mistakes in judgement. No one is immune from that.
You are right to some extent Nancy, however, the administrators, teachers and other staff members that investigate these kinds of things are trained to ask the right questions. They ask the questions over and over again. They don't take the responsibility lightly and in many cases spend hours investigating an incident before ANY decision is made on who is disciplined and how they are disciplined.
I spend a lot of time conducting investigations and advising others who are conducting investigations into allegations of misconduct as a part of my job. It certainly is an art form to some extent and even though my collegues and I have all been trained and have learned through experience, some people are much better than others at conducting investigations.
You are right some people are better at these things than others, as with all aspects of any job. Some people are better at things than others, that's why the district has more than one person doing the investigations and asking the questions. It becomes a collaborative effort and most often not always, (nothing and no one is perfect) the outcome is determined fairly. But the outcome should still remain confidential, and other people should not be privy to the punishment that any other child receives as the result of the investigation. It's called confidentiality and I am sure that most people would not want their business broadcast for everyone to know what happened.
Parents do not have the same responsibility to keep it confidential as the school does, but despite that, no names are being used here. I think everyone understands that would be going too far.
I never meant to imply that I thought that people here were going to use names, apologies if that was how it sounded. However, I do feel that the more things get talked about from person to person things get blown out of proportion and the story gets distorted. Sort of like the old game telephone, where I whisper something to you and then you whisper it to someone else by the time ten people here it, it's not even the same thing that it started out. It's not intentional it's just a distortion of the original statement. Kind of like why a judge in a courtroom won't let me testify on the stand that I heard someone say...... It's called hearsay. I'm not calling anyone a liar. I will reserve that for other people on this forum.
|
|
|
| |
|
Want2move
|
Nov 19 2006, 08:55 AM
Post #58
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 189
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #145
- Joined:
- November 20, 2005
|
- loyaltolivonia
- Nov 17 2006, 09:43 PM
Don't tell me this is not new, the fighting and bullying, because for my family and a lot of others around here, it IS new. We have never experienced this escalated form of bullying and we are trying to figure out how best to deal with it.
I'll back up LTL on this one. Our child spent the last 5 years at Randolph, and we never heard about anything close to what’s going on at Johnson.
He is in a class now, that has a child that has been suspended twice, and the school year isn't even half over. It's a very disruptive situation for him, and the whole class. We hear daily complaints from him about behavior problems of some of his schoolmates.
I guess Whitehead was right about STUDENT LEARNING. Our child has LEARNED what it takes to get someone suspended.
We knew this kind of crap would come around eventually, we just didn't imagine it would be in 5th grade. So in some cases, this is definitely a result of the wonderful and innovative LIe. :angry:
|
|
|
| |
|
kristin
|
Nov 19 2006, 09:07 AM
Post #59
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 145
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #328
- Joined:
- March 1, 2006
|
- Want2move
- Nov 19 2006, 08:55 AM
- loyaltolivonia
- Nov 17 2006, 09:43 PM
Don't tell me this is not new, the fighting and bullying, because for my family and a lot of others around here, it IS new. We have never experienced this escalated form of bullying and we are trying to figure out how best to deal with it.
I'll back up LTL on this one. Our child spent the last 5 years at Randolph, and we never heard about anything close to what’s going on at Johnson. He is in a class now, that has a child that has been suspended twice, and the school year isn't even half over. It's a very disruptive situation for him, and the whole class. We hear daily complaints from him about behavior problems of some of his schoolmates. I guess Whitehead was right about STUDENT LEARNING. Our child has LEARNED what it takes to get someone suspended. We knew this kind of crap would come around eventually, we just didn't imagine it would be in 5th grade. So in some cases, this is definitely a result of the wonderful and innovative LIe. :angry:
My daughter has the same problem at Johnson! Constant dissruptions and harrassment from some of the other kids! This is not what it was like at Kennedy.
|
|
|
| |
|
NFarquharson
|
Nov 19 2006, 09:16 AM
Post #60
|
|
Principal
- Posts:
- 4,311
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #103
- Joined:
- November 9, 2005
|
- livoniafootballmom
- Nov 19 2006, 07:51 AM
I never meant to imply that I thought that people here were going to use names, apologies if that was how it sounded. However, I do feel that the more things get talked about from person to person things get blown out of proportion and the story gets distorted. Sort of like the old game telephone, where I whisper something to you and then you whisper it to someone else by the time ten people here it, it's not even the same thing that it started out. It's not intentional it's just a distortion of the original statement. Kind of like why a judge in a courtroom won't let me testify on the stand that I heard someone say...... It's called hearsay. I'm not calling anyone a liar. I will reserve that for other people on this forum.
I agree that stories tend to change as they pass from person to person, but people are going to talk and everyone will need to use their own judgement as to what they believe. My point was that the principal that most likely was making his/her assessment based on hearsay (a teacher reporting what a child said) does not necessarily know more than the parent that heard it from that same child. Loyaltolivonia is re-telling the story heard from that parent and, while it may indeed get twisted if passed through several more people, the story told here has probably only passed through the same number of mouths as what the principal heard.
child->teacher->principal child->parent->parent's friend
Because I know and trust loyaltolivonia, I am certain she would report only what she heard and would not embellish. Certainly there may be more facts that she is missing, and she stated that herself. Garfield's comments were quite rather judgemental...the story is not a "rumor"...she heard it directly from the victim's mom.
|
|
|
| |