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anti-bullying/self defense clarification; suspended for defending self?
Topic Started: Nov 13 2006, 08:45 PM (2,880 Views)
mega millions
Principal
ktmom
Nov 17 2006, 08:37 AM
mega millions
Nov 17 2006, 08:26 AM
fyi
Nov 17 2006, 08:13 AM
Mega
 
Situations before the LI involved threats to bring guns to school in the K-6 schools, bomb threats in the K-6 schools. Not new issues here guys.


Where is the data to support this? I have lived in this city for almost 10 years and I don't remember hearing about this before this year in our elementary schools?

Where and when did it occur?

A 6th Grader said he was going to bring a gun to school. This incident happened last year towards the end of the school year (April/May??) at Buchanan with a sixth grader. A letter was sent home to everyone advising of the situation. the child was suspended until a full investigation could be completed. I don't know if he threatened to hurt anyone or if it was just a statement he was going to bring his dad's gun to school.

Just because you don't hear of something, doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Let's think of the child. Should his name be spread all over the city before a complete investigation? Innocent until proven guilty is how it works. I don't even know the outcome of the investigation. The principal notified peple throught a letter that there was a potential problem and stated that the child would not be allowed to return to school until they were sure there would be no danger to the other children. If I still had the letter I would scan it and post it, but I don't.

I am sure you can FOIA the letter from Buchanan. Kids are still kids. This stuff goes on every year in just about every school in some form or another. We are lucky that it has just turned out to be kids pranks, but you can't be too careful these days.

The schools need to be very careful on how these are handled. You certainly wouldn't want a misunderstanding involving your child spread throughout the whole city and if someone was threatening to hurt your child you would want to know about it.

As for the bomb threat, I am not as familiar with it but someone did post about the one last year also.

So this kind of behavior is acceptable to you in Elementary schools? Because it happened before the LI.

No it isn't acceptable behavior, but then again I don't know the whole story. I only received a letter because my daughter was a student there. I am not going to make assumptions about a child based upon rumor. I was not a part of the investigation nor do I know the outcome. We are fortunate that no one was hurt. Do you like to make assumptions about other peoples children based upon things you have heard or read on a blog? That would kinda be like bullying. Do you like to bully children? The only point I was making was that you cannot blame the LI for the recent behavior issues. If you dig deep enough you will find them in every school and every school district.
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JoJo
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Principal
I question you too Mega. You are so supportive of the people that have created a not so friendly learning environment. Do you still feel it was the best thing to do for kids sake?? I sure don't!
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fyi
Principal
Megamillions
 
The only point I was making was that you cannot blame the LI for the recent behavior issues.


So.....what's the solution? Police officers at the 5/6 schools?

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ILIkeLI
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Principal
mega millions
Nov 17 2006, 08:40 AM
"you cannot blame the LI for the recent behavior issues.  If you dig deep enough you will find them in every school and every school district."

I think you may be missing the point mega. It's not that people are blaming recent issues on the LI. People feel that these types of behavioral issues are on the rise due to the concentration of same-age kids in one building. Sure, behavioral problems are found in all elementary schools but the administration has chosen to create a climate in the 5/6 schools that fosters alienation and anonimity as a result of it's sheer size. As a result, I think that we will see an increase in aggressive behaviors.
Again, the supporters attempts to minimize and some how normalize everything really only does a disservice to the children who have to suffer under these conditions. Loyaly toward LPS administration is misguided and misplaced. Let it go and acknowledge problems for what they are...FOR KIDS SAKE.

I have heard several stories of bullying behavior. Parents have taken these issues to the principals but it needs to go beyond that. Please bring your concerns to the BOE meetings, otherwise they will never see the light of day...LPS only seems to take action when issues are made public.
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loyaltolivonia
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Principal
fyi
Nov 17 2006, 09:00 AM
Megamillions
 
The only point I was making was that you cannot blame the LI for the recent behavior issues.


So.....what's the solution? Police officers at the 5/6 schools?

Well, they sure as heck could use one at Johnson these days.

I guess the kids are getting more 'comfortable' there as the vicious threats have been flying around that school like crazy! How 'bout some examples???

1) I'll **ck up your face if you don't get off that swing. (That IS precious....a 6th grader using the f-word)
2) A friend of mine's son being told by a 6th grade girl she was going to 'slit his throat'. (Isn't that adorable?)
3) A child saying he was going to get his Dad's gun and shoot another student?
4) Six kids (yes six) all from one class being suspended for fighting on the playground. 4 of which were all beating on one rather small child that did NOTHING wrong.

Now I don't know where you come fom, but where I come from this is NOT normal. It NEVER happened at Randolph.....period! I have never know a kid that has been suspended, now there are SIX in one class? It is the sheer number of older kids put together that has prompted this.

PLEASE don't tell me this is "a sign of the times" or that I should "just wait til they're in 7-8th grade" It does not excuse what is happening in these MEGA lower middle schools.
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schoolmomfor3
Principal
Mega Millions--This clearly is because of the MEGA 5/6 schools. If you cant see that, you must have blinders on, and cannot face the facts. This was never a usual thing happening, at the K-6 elementarys. We have kids coming from everywhere, no one knows anyone. Kids not in tune with each other, like they would be at the k-6 knowing each other for so many years.
Anyway it it truly awful what is happening at these schools and it MAKES ME SICK!!
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Administrator
Administrator
mega millions
Nov 17 2006, 08:40 AM
ktmom
Nov 17 2006, 08:37 AM
mega millions
Nov 17 2006, 08:26 AM
fyi
Nov 17 2006, 08:13 AM
Mega
 
Situations before the LI involved threats to bring guns to school in the K-6 schools, bomb threats in the K-6 schools. Not new issues here guys.


Where is the data to support this? I have lived in this city for almost 10 years and I don't remember hearing about this before this year in our elementary schools?

Where and when did it occur?

A 6th Grader said he was going to bring a gun to school. This incident happened last year towards the end of the school year (April/May??) at Buchanan with a sixth grader. A letter was sent home to everyone advising of the situation. the child was suspended until a full investigation could be completed. I don't know if he threatened to hurt anyone or if it was just a statement he was going to bring his dad's gun to school.

Just because you don't hear of something, doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Let's think of the child. Should his name be spread all over the city before a complete investigation? Innocent until proven guilty is how it works. I don't even know the outcome of the investigation. The principal notified peple throught a letter that there was a potential problem and stated that the child would not be allowed to return to school until they were sure there would be no danger to the other children. If I still had the letter I would scan it and post it, but I don't.

I am sure you can FOIA the letter from Buchanan. Kids are still kids. This stuff goes on every year in just about every school in some form or another. We are lucky that it has just turned out to be kids pranks, but you can't be too careful these days.

The schools need to be very careful on how these are handled. You certainly wouldn't want a misunderstanding involving your child spread throughout the whole city and if someone was threatening to hurt your child you would want to know about it.

As for the bomb threat, I am not as familiar with it but someone did post about the one last year also.

So this kind of behavior is acceptable to you in Elementary schools? Because it happened before the LI.

No it isn't acceptable behavior, but then again I don't know the whole story. I only received a letter because my daughter was a student there. I am not going to make assumptions about a child based upon rumor. I was not a part of the investigation nor do I know the outcome. We are fortunate that no one was hurt. Do you like to make assumptions about other peoples children based upon things you have heard or read on a blog? That would kinda be like bullying. Do you like to bully children? The only point I was making was that you cannot blame the LI for the recent behavior issues. If you dig deep enough you will find them in every school and every school district.

I think there is one easy way to answer this question. Were these things occuring with such frequency at your old K-6 school? The answer for me is no. Our 5th and 6th graders had occasional problems, ones that I would call normal. But not ones this frequently.

I am not even sure what the argument is here. I have been researching this now on a daily basis for some 14 months now. It was not a question of if we would have discipline problems, it was a question of how many and how severe. Anyone who has a computer or a library card can find the research very easily. We knew this was coming. Thats why so many fought so hard against it.
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chickmunk
5th Grade
loyaltolivonia
Nov 17 2006, 09:20 AM

4) Six kids (yes six) all from one class being suspended for fighting on the playground. 4 of which were all beating on one rather small child that did NOTHING wrong.

Now I don't know where you come fom, but where I come from this is NOT normal. It NEVER happened at Randolph.....period! I have never know a kid that has been suspended, now there are SIX in one class? It is the sheer number of older kids put together that has prompted this.


If 4 were doing the beating, who else was suspended???(where are the other 2 children--what did they do) ? Yes, 6 seems abnormal (I don't remember that happening in our grade school.)
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fyi
Principal
This is shocking and very abnormal for any school/district.
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loyaltolivonia
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Principal
chickmunk
Nov 17 2006, 10:00 AM
loyaltolivonia
Nov 17 2006, 09:20 AM

4) Six kids (yes six) all from one class being suspended for fighting on the playground. 4 of which were all beating on one rather small child that did NOTHING wrong.

Now I don't know where you come fom, but where I come from this is NOT normal. It NEVER happened at Randolph.....period! I have never know a kid that has been suspended, now there are SIX in one class? It is the sheer number of older kids put together that has prompted this.


If 4 were doing the beating, who else was suspended???(where are the other 2 children--what did they do) ? Yes, 6 seems abnormal (I don't remember that happening in our grade school.)

I do not know what the other 2 were suspended for. The mom that I spoke with whose kid is in that class asked the teacher during conferences about the suspensions. The teacher acknowleged that there were indeed 6 suspended, but only mentioned the 4 from the fight because it concerned a mutual friend of her son's.

I will tell you this also. This is a mom who was not necessarily against the grade configuration change when it was rolled out last year. Her words "Well, they must know what they are doing"! She has done a complete 360 on this issue since and actually said to me "What is going on here? What were they thinking?"!!!
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ILIkeLI
Member Avatar
Principal
The unfortunate side effects of these large schools are begining to hit home in a very real way for many families...some of whom initially supported the LI.
There is a growing feeling that the supporter base has dwindled significantly, don't you think?
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2tots
Principal
Corwin
Nov 16 2006, 02:48 PM
2tots
Nov 15 2006, 07:03 PM
I think iron-clad zero tolerance policies are ridiculous.  There are very few times when a one-size-fits-all approach works for every problem.  There was a case in Livonia a few years back where a middle school student was being tormented by other kids on the way home day after day.  So he decided to bring one of those little 16" bats that you get on "bat day" at the ball park for self defense (in the misguided wisdom of a 12 year old).  Well, he got caught with the bat in his backpack and was expelled from the LPS system.  The bullies got off scott free.  But the arguement was "Well, we have a zero tolerance policy.  We had no choice".  Nonsense.

I have heard that the student also used the bat on another student and that is what got him expelled. It is too bad that he felt the need to protect himself in this way (whether he used it or not), but I don't see how the school system can allow students to use/carry weapons - even if it is just a mini-bat - to solve problems.

You missed my point. Zero tolerance policies do not deter negative behavior and NO CHILD should EVER be suspended or expelled for defending him/herself. No, we don't want kids carrying weapons to school but when the system fails that child, the child may feel he/she has no recourse. Creating these mega schools will only exasparate the problem.
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chickmunk
5th Grade
loyaltolivonia
Nov 17 2006, 10:44 AM
The teacher acknowleged that there were indeed 6 suspended, but only mentioned the 4 from the fight...

Oh. Because I thought maybe one of the 2 in question was actually the kid who got beat up being suspended for "participating" in getting his own butt kicked..... <_<
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loyaltolivonia
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Principal
chickmunk
Nov 17 2006, 01:43 PM
loyaltolivonia
Nov 17 2006, 10:44 AM
The teacher acknowleged that there were indeed 6 suspended, but only mentioned the 4 from the fight...

Oh. Because I thought maybe one of the 2 in question was actually the kid who got beat up being suspended for "participating" in getting his own butt kicked..... <_<

Funny, but kind of not funny :blink: I really hope the kid on the recieving end did not get suspended, but I really don't know. I will ask my friend and see if she knows.
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loyaltolivonia
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Principal
loyaltolivonia
Nov 17 2006, 01:48 PM
chickmunk
Nov 17 2006, 01:43 PM
loyaltolivonia
Nov 17 2006, 10:44 AM
The teacher acknowleged that there were indeed 6 suspended, but only mentioned the 4 from the fight...

Oh. Because I thought maybe one of the 2 in question was actually the kid who got beat up being suspended for "participating" in getting his own butt kicked..... <_<

Funny, but kind of not funny :blink: I really hope the kid on the recieving end did not get suspended, but I really don't know. I will ask my friend and see if she knows.

I talked to my friend and found out that the other two kids were not involved in that fight. 1 kid was suspended for threatening someone with a plastic knife and the other kid was suspended for hitting another kid on the bus.

The kid that got beat up was not suspended. He couldn't even fight back because he was on the ground getting kicked :o :angry: From what she says, her son told her it all happened very quickly. The boy that got beat up is o.k. although his ribs hurt and his leg was sore.

Don't tell me this is not new, the fighting and bullying, because for my family and a lot of others around here, it IS new. We have never experienced this escalated form of bullying and we are trying to figure out how best to deal with it.

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