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Board of Education Meeting; Monday November 6, 2006
Topic Started: Nov 2 2006, 10:34 AM (2,667 Views)
Zeke
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Principal
Yes it is.

But the FACTS are the same for all of us!
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mega millions
Principal
Jimid
Nov 7 2006, 12:28 PM
Good place to leave that. I think it is safe to say that no matter what your opinion is, we are all going to have to deal with this overwhelming student loss. Where do we go from here???

We keep working at it. We stay involved.
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Pete
Principal
mega millions
Nov 7 2006, 12:24 PM
Grant1
Nov 7 2006, 09:24 AM
And yet...newspaper articles and op ed peices were used as supporting documentation for the LIe by the Demolition Committee

Interesting point Mega...

It's OK in one respect, but not on another...

I don't think an article or two represents the issues surrounding the Legacy Initative or Recall either. Let's not go tit for tat on this. What a waste of time. If you all want to beat me up for my opinions on our school district, go right ahead. It is your right. I am not the board of education, administration or even employed by the school district. We all have things that are important to us. What is important to me, is obviously not important to you and vice versa. Does that make me a bad person? Does it make you a bad person? Great country we live in that allows us to each have our own opinions.

Opinion should be based on truth. If there is truth, there is right and wrong. I believe you can understand why someone has an opinion but you can't escape right and wrong. Truth can not be obfuscated.
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mikefromholland
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Mrs.M
Nov 7 2006, 10:41 AM
If 520 is the number, maybe more maybe less, it's important too we all realize it's not 520 families, it's 520 students. Some siblings remained in LPS.

Since attendance and enrollment in Kindergarten is not a state requirement for parents (there are some children who do not attend a kindergarten), why wouldn't LPS use the first grade enrollment as the incoming count to compare with the twelfth grade count?

Does anyone know if comparing those numbers (1st and 12th) have a more varied outcome in the student enrollment over the years than the K and 12?

I don't have time to address this question now -- my lunch time is almost over -- but I'll try to post on the question later in the evening.
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Livonia Voter
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mega millions
Nov 7 2006, 12:35 PM
Jimid
Nov 7 2006, 12:28 PM
Good place to leave that. I think it is safe to say that no matter what your opinion is, we are all going to have to deal with this overwhelming student loss. Where do we go from here???

We keep working at it. We stay involved.


Could you be a tad more specific?

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Livonia Voter
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mega millions
Nov 7 2006, 12:24 PM
Grant1
Nov 7 2006, 09:24 AM
And yet...newspaper articles and op ed peices were used as supporting documentation for the LIe by the Demolition Committee

Interesting point Mega...

It's OK in one respect, but not on another...

I don't think an article or two represents the issues surrounding the Legacy Initative or Recall either. Let's not go tit for tat on this. What a waste of time. If you all want to beat me up for my opinions on our school district, go right ahead. It is your right. I am not the board of education, administration or even employed by the school district. We all have things that are important to us. What is important to me, is obviously not important to you and vice versa. Does that make me a bad person? Does it make you a bad person? Great country we live in that allows us to each have our own opinions.


Of course you are entitled to your opinion. If you want to believe the world is flat, go ahead. Just remember that I am entitled to debunk your opinion with the facts.

;)
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livoniamom
Principal
mega millions
Nov 6 2006, 11:37 PM
Jimid
Nov 6 2006, 11:14 PM
-----------------------------------------------------------------
EAST DETROIT SCHOOLS' ACCOUNTANTS FAILED TO REPORT EMBEZZLEMENT
SCHEME
-----------------------------------------------------------------
DETROIT, Mich. — A Grand Rapids-based accounting firm has
uncovered prior misconduct by the auditing firm employed by East
Detroit Public Schools, giving investigators a clue into the
embezzlement scheme that plagued the district in the mid 1990s.

The report says that the district's former auditors did not
report or refused to report mismanagement and misallocation of
district funds when auditing the district. "Plante & Moran, LLP
is responsible for allowing the financial losses suffered by the
East Detroit Public Schools to continue due to withholding
pertinent information from the Board of Education and the public
stakeholders,"
says the report.

Several active and former board members are awaiting trial due to
their participation in the scheme to embezzle district money.
_______
SOURCES:
Detroit Free Press, "East Detroit schools audit found trouble,"
Sept. 9, 2003
http://www.freep.com/news/education/east9_20030909.htm



Regardless, the question was certainly a valid one in my opinion after reading this article.

If you review the tape Jimid you will see that Mr. King was insinuating that the representatives of Plante Moran were the ones that completed the East Detroit Schools Audit (not Eastpointe schools). It appeared from his actual dialog that his problem was with the Partner and the Manager, not just Plante Moran. King had no foundation, no basis and couldn't even state the year it happened. He was basing his fumble on a question he received on someone's cell phone on a break in the board meeting. When all is said and done, your group had one week to get him all the information he would have needed to properly question the auditors. If you paid attention to the Committee of the Whole meeting on October 9th, then you would have known that the audit was being placed on the agenda for the October 16th meeting. If you want the actual dialog from the board meeting, please pm or e-mail me and I will be happy to provide it to you. Maybe if you look at the actual dialog instead of going from memory you will understand where I am coming from. Those auditors are owed an apology for having their professionalism questioned without foundation.

Oh my gosh -- we lost a staggering 520 students and we are worried that Steve King might have offended the auditors? Truthfully, I also questioned his reason for asking the question -- but now, we have bigger fish to fry.
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mega millions
Principal
Pete
Nov 7 2006, 12:39 PM
mega millions
Nov 7 2006, 12:24 PM
Grant1
Nov 7 2006, 09:24 AM
And yet...newspaper articles and op ed peices were used as supporting documentation for the LIe by the Demolition Committee

Interesting point Mega...

It's OK in one respect, but not on another...

I don't think an article or two represents the issues surrounding the Legacy Initative or Recall either. Let's not go tit for tat on this. What a waste of time. If you all want to beat me up for my opinions on our school district, go right ahead. It is your right. I am not the board of education, administration or even employed by the school district. We all have things that are important to us. What is important to me, is obviously not important to you and vice versa. Does that make me a bad person? Does it make you a bad person? Great country we live in that allows us to each have our own opinions.

Opinion should be based on truth. If there is truth, there is right and wrong. I believe you can understand why someone has an opinion but you can't escape right and wrong. Truth can not be obfuscated.

I just have to laugh. Just look at all the political ads leading up to this election. Are every single one of them lies??? No, there are some shreads of truth to each of them. Not just the whole truth and definately not the whole story. That unfortunately transfers to everything about the Legacy Initiative and the Recall and what continues to this day. If you are one side, you disseminate one way and if you are on the other you disseminate it a different way. So how I chose to disseminate the truth into my opinon should not be criticized. Yes our enrollment is off significantly from projections, that is truth. Why it is off so much is a matter of opinion. You have no proof as to the actual number of students/families who left because of the LI. I am not saying that number won't come out at some point, but as we sit here today we can only guess about it. No need to be nasty just because you don't agree with someone.
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ILIkeLI
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Principal
This is the biggest student loss in at least 10 years. The LI rolled this year, you don't think that it contributed significantly to the loss? Do you believe that it is just some kind of coincidence? Don't you agree that the administration should act responsibly (to avert more losses next year) to determine the reasons these 520 left? Or should we just let Dr. L's incredibly profound statement on that issue be the final word? The Observer quoted him as saying "well, people come and go.."
You don't have a problem with Dr. L lying to the Observer saying that Northville's numbers were also down? Lisa L. saying how low the fund equity was pre-LI that it shouldn't be touched but now it will help bail out the LI? The notion pre-LI that $1.8 million was a substantial and well-worth it sum to "save" with this plan and now the $4 million loss is somehow insignificant?
I don't get why any one or group would want to support the administration so much so that they turn a deaf ear to the lies and the misleading information that the district disseminates.
Can we assume that you feel that the LI and it's "programs" were well worth the 520 student loss and the $4 million attached to that loss?
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Pete
Principal
mega millions
Nov 7 2006, 02:19 PM
Pete
Nov 7 2006, 12:39 PM
mega millions
Nov 7 2006, 12:24 PM
Grant1
Nov 7 2006, 09:24 AM
And yet...newspaper articles and op ed peices were used as supporting documentation for the LIe by the Demolition Committee

Interesting point Mega...

It's OK in one respect, but not on another...

I don't think an article or two represents the issues surrounding the Legacy Initative or Recall either. Let's not go tit for tat on this. What a waste of time. If you all want to beat me up for my opinions on our school district, go right ahead. It is your right. I am not the board of education, administration or even employed by the school district. We all have things that are important to us. What is important to me, is obviously not important to you and vice versa. Does that make me a bad person? Does it make you a bad person? Great country we live in that allows us to each have our own opinions.

Opinion should be based on truth. If there is truth, there is right and wrong. I believe you can understand why someone has an opinion but you can't escape right and wrong. Truth can not be obfuscated.

I just have to laugh. Just look at all the political ads leading up to this election. Are every single one of them lies??? No, there are some shreads of truth to each of them. Not just the whole truth and definately not the whole story. That unfortunately transfers to everything about the Legacy Initiative and the Recall and what continues to this day. If you are one side, you disseminate one way and if you are on the other you disseminate it a different way. So how I chose to disseminate the truth into my opinon should not be criticized. Yes our enrollment is off significantly from projections, that is truth. Why it is off so much is a matter of opinion. You have no proof as to the actual number of students/families who left because of the LI. I am not saying that number won't come out at some point, but as we sit here today we can only guess about it. No need to be nasty just because you don't agree with someone.

Why are you so defensive when I wasn't be offensive. I was trying to speak philosophically. I should not have to explain the problems with the plan and underhanded way it was brought about and forced upon so many unhappy parents. But since you now are on the attack, you should realize another stubborn truth. You seem to be having difficulty allowing yourself to see that you might been wrong. Funny human trait, not wanting to be wrong about something.


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mega millions
Principal
ILIkeLI
Nov 7 2006, 02:26 PM
This is the biggest student loss in at least 10 years. The LI rolled this year, you don't think that it contributed significantly to the loss?
You don't have a problem with Dr. L lying to the Observer saying that Northville's numbers were also down?
I don't get why any one or group would want to support the administration so much so that they turn a deaf ear to the lies and the misleading information that the district disseminates.
Can we assume that you feel that the LI and it's "programs" were well worth the 520 student loss and the $4 million attached to that loss?

I certainly think that it is fair to say that we experienced a loss of students due to the Legacy Initative. We just don't have the backup to support the exact number of student loss attributed to the LI.

I was at the Conversation meeting where Mr. Varga got his information and I will tell you that Dr. Liepa stated that Northville had budgeted for a significant increase in students, did not get what they wanted and now have issues with what they had budgeted for. So I don't believe he misled anyone and he most certainly did not lie in that conversation meeting regarding Northville's numbers. He never said Northville experienced a loss of students. He only said they didn't get as many as they had budgeted for. Sometimes we just don't properly hear what is being said.

As for your assumption that I feel that the LI and it's "program"s were well worth the 520 student loss and the $4 million attached to that loss? Well the juries still out on that one. Again, you don't have any proof that 520 students were lost all because of the LI. We all know that there were losses attributed to it, but until we have that number, I will withhold judgment until that time.
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Grant1
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We have just begun to fight!
Budgeted for a loss of 162 as projected by thier "experts" in central office.

Lost 520

520 - 162 = 358

I could safely say 358 left because of the LI. I can have no other assumption as there is no other correlative data to build a relationship to this number.
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ILIkeLI
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Principal
mega millions
Nov 7 2006, 03:26 PM
He never said Northville experienced a loss of students.  He only said they didn't get as many as they had budgeted for.  Sometimes we just don't properly hear what is being said.


"Asked about the loss of students this fall, Liepa said the estimate was about 2.5 percent -- more than 400 students. That's well over the anticipated loss, something that other districts, including Southfield and Northville, also experienced, he added"
http://www.hometownlife.com/apps/pbcs.dll/.../611020397/1027

Don't forget that Mr. Varga followed this up with a correction that stated Northville GAINED students. Apparently he felt Liepa's info was misleading also. Liepa was correct about Southfield's loss but not our close neighbor Northville.

CORRECTION

A story in Sunday's Observer about the community conversations stated incorrectly that the Northville school district had lost more students than anticipated. In fact, the district gained students, though that number was smaller than projected by that district's officials.
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f11
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LPS, transportation for all
Grant1
Nov 7 2006, 03:34 PM
Budgeted for a loss of 162 as projected by thier "experts" in central office.

Lost 520

520 - 162 = 358

I could safely say 358 left because of the LI. I can have no other assumption as there is no other correlative data to build a relationship to this number.

You sure could safely say that....remember how "accurate" their historical enrollment projections have been.

LPS STATES: DISTRICT PROJECTIONS HAVE HISTORICALLY BEEN ACCURATE TO WITHIN ONE QUARTER OF ONE PERCENT
WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT THEY ARE NEVER OFF BY MORE THAN 50 STUDENTS!


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Administrator
Administrator
Dave Varga was the one that got it wrong, but obviously from Mondays BOE meeting and the way it was explained, people getting it wrong is the intent. It's pretty simple. Northville gained 165. Livonia lost 520. Plymouth-Canton Gained 400, Livonia lost 520.
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