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Board of Education Meeting; Monday November 6, 2006
Topic Started: Nov 2 2006, 10:34 AM (2,668 Views)
c3hull
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Principal
Mega, you also mentioned in your speech that Plante & Moran was the 11th largest auditing firm....blah, blah. Did you ever hear of Enron and Aurthur Anderson?

Do you know why SAS #99 has now been implemented? Do your homework!
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Administrator
Administrator
mega millions
Nov 7 2006, 12:37 AM
Jimid
Nov 6 2006, 11:14 PM
-----------------------------------------------------------------
EAST DETROIT SCHOOLS' ACCOUNTANTS FAILED TO REPORT EMBEZZLEMENT
SCHEME
-----------------------------------------------------------------
DETROIT, Mich. — A Grand Rapids-based accounting firm has
uncovered prior misconduct by the auditing firm employed by East
Detroit Public Schools, giving investigators a clue into the
embezzlement scheme that plagued the district in the mid 1990s.

The report says that the district's former auditors did not
report or refused to report mismanagement and misallocation of
district funds when auditing the district. "Plante & Moran, LLP
is responsible for allowing the financial losses suffered by the
East Detroit Public Schools to continue due to withholding
pertinent information from the Board of Education and the public
stakeholders,"
says the report.

Several active and former board members are awaiting trial due to
their participation in the scheme to embezzle district money.
_______
SOURCES:
Detroit Free Press, "East Detroit schools audit found trouble,"
Sept. 9, 2003
http://www.freep.com/news/education/east9_20030909.htm



Regardless, the question was certainly a valid one in my opinion after reading this article.

If you review the tape Jimid you will see that Mr. King was insinuating that the representatives of Plante Moran were the ones that completed the East Detroit Schools Audit (not Eastpointe schools). It appeared from his actual dialog that his problem was with the Partner and the Manager, not just Plante Moran. King had no foundation, no basis and couldn't even state the year it happened. He was basing his fumble on a question he received on someone's cell phone on a break in the board meeting. When all is said and done, your group had one week to get him all the information he would have needed to properly question the auditors. If you paid attention to the Committee of the Whole meeting on October 9th, then you would have known that the audit was being placed on the agenda for the October 16th meeting. If you want the actual dialog from the board meeting, please pm or e-mail me and I will be happy to provide it to you. Maybe if you look at the actual dialog instead of going from memory you will understand where I am coming from. Those auditors are owed an apology for having their professionalism questioned without foundation.

I have that and every meeting on DVD. I have watced. I do agree he fumbled the question, but the point was valid. Plante Moran is not perfect, and did "creatively" give information to the Eastpoint School Board, which tells you that does happen. I think someone will have to bring the whole story to the next school board meeting to straighten it out. Let me clear this up also. I do not have a group, and do not belong to CFLF. Many people still think this forum is CFLF, and it is not.
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mega millions
Principal
Jimid
Nov 7 2006, 06:51 AM
mega millions
Nov 7 2006, 12:37 AM
Jimid
Nov 6 2006, 11:14 PM
-----------------------------------------------------------------
EAST DETROIT SCHOOLS' ACCOUNTANTS FAILED TO REPORT EMBEZZLEMENT
SCHEME
-----------------------------------------------------------------
DETROIT, Mich. — A Grand Rapids-based accounting firm has
uncovered prior misconduct by the auditing firm employed by East
Detroit Public Schools, giving investigators a clue into the
embezzlement scheme that plagued the district in the mid 1990s.

The report says that the district's former auditors did not
report or refused to report mismanagement and misallocation of
district funds when auditing the district. "Plante & Moran, LLP
is responsible for allowing the financial losses suffered by the
East Detroit Public Schools to continue due to withholding
pertinent information from the Board of Education and the public
stakeholders,"
says the report.

Several active and former board members are awaiting trial due to
their participation in the scheme to embezzle district money.
_______
SOURCES:
Detroit Free Press, "East Detroit schools audit found trouble,"
Sept. 9, 2003
http://www.freep.com/news/education/east9_20030909.htm



Regardless, the question was certainly a valid one in my opinion after reading this article.

If you review the tape Jimid you will see that Mr. King was insinuating that the representatives of Plante Moran were the ones that completed the East Detroit Schools Audit (not Eastpointe schools). It appeared from his actual dialog that his problem was with the Partner and the Manager, not just Plante Moran. King had no foundation, no basis and couldn't even state the year it happened. He was basing his fumble on a question he received on someone's cell phone on a break in the board meeting. When all is said and done, your group had one week to get him all the information he would have needed to properly question the auditors. If you paid attention to the Committee of the Whole meeting on October 9th, then you would have known that the audit was being placed on the agenda for the October 16th meeting. If you want the actual dialog from the board meeting, please pm or e-mail me and I will be happy to provide it to you. Maybe if you look at the actual dialog instead of going from memory you will understand where I am coming from. Those auditors are owed an apology for having their professionalism questioned without foundation.

I have that and every meeting on DVD. I have watced. I do agree he fumbled the question, but the point was valid. Plante Moran is not perfect, and did "creatively" give information to the Eastpoint School Board, which tells you that does happen. I think someone will have to bring the whole story to the next school board meeting to straighten it out. Let me clear this up also. I do not have a group, and do not belong to CFLF. Many people still think this forum is CFLF, and it is not.

Thanks for clarifying your group position.

I don't have any issue with bringing up the Plante Moran Audit of East Detroit (bring it up in an educated manner), but Mr. King was trying to tie it to the two individuals (the Partner and the Manager) from Plante Moran. There was no foundation to do that. It was insinuating that those two individuals (certified CPA's) were somehow lacking integrity. I am sure there are several fortune 500 companies who were audited by Arthur Anderson, what happened at Enron was a tragedy, but it does not mean that the hundreds of audits performed by thousands of others at Arthur Anderson are wrong. For all those that work for Ford and GM --- when your company does something suspect, does that make you specifically suspect or a bad person? When the Exxon Valdez spilled all of that oil, does that make every employee at Exxon suspect? Plante Moran currently has over 1400 employees. The accounting board sets the rules and the principles for the auditors to follow, there is no guarantee that what happened in Eastpointe would have been caught by any other auditing firm. I don't believe that any of the auditors were charged or convicted in aiding with the embezzelment.

Just remember a newspaper article or two does not constitute the whole story. Just look at the complaints about the Observer.
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Grant1
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We have just begun to fight!
And yet...newspaper articles and op ed peices were used as supporting documentation for the LIe by the Demolition Committee

Interesting point Mega...

It's OK in one respect, but not on another...

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ILIkeLI
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Principal
Mega....the real issue here is the student loss. the staggering number of 520. How are you feeling about that? Has it made you reconsider your position on the LI as something we "needed"? Any thoughts of how the district will recoup the loss in funding?
Are you part of the group that feels all of the students that fled this year will return when they see how wonderful the LI is? And that families from all over will flock to LPS after hearing all of the positives of the LI?
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fyi
Principal
Quote:
 
The report says that the district's former auditors did not
report or refused to report mismanagement and misallocation of
district funds when auditing the district.
"Plante & Moran, LLP is responsible for allowing the financial losses suffered by the
East Detroit Public Schools to continue due to withholding
pertinent information from the Board of Education and the public
stakeholders,
" says the report.


MEGA
 
The accounting board sets the rules and the principles for the auditors to follow, there is no guarantee that what happened in Eastpointe would have been caught by any other auditing firm.


I think you have it wrong, MEGA. The auditing firm was part of the problem.

Mr. King raised a legitimate question about the firm. As representatives of the company, he was merely inquiring about a previous incident involving their
employer. He was not suggesting that the people present were involved in any way. I think the majority of people watching that evening understood that.
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cat
Principal
ILIkeLI
Nov 7 2006, 09:25 AM
Mega....the real issue here is the student loss. the staggering number of 520. How are you feeling about that? Has it made you reconsider your position on the LI as something we "needed"? Any thoughts of how the district will recoup the loss in funding?

And the ones that have left I doubt will be back. And the ones that are leaving next year, won't be back either!!!
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fyi
Principal
cat
Nov 7 2006, 10:06 AM
ILIkeLI
Nov 7 2006, 09:25 AM
Mega....the real issue here is the student loss.  the staggering number of 520.  How are you feeling about that?  Has it made you reconsider your position on the LI as something we "needed"?  Any thoughts of how the district will recoup the loss in funding?

And the ones that have left I doubt will be back. And the ones that are leaving next year, won't be back either!!!

Don't forget all of the younger siblings of the kids that left also.....
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Mrs.M
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Principal
If 520 is the number, maybe more maybe less, it's important too we all realize it's not 520 families, it's 520 students. Some siblings remained in LPS.

Since attendance and enrollment in Kindergarten is not a state requirement for parents (there are some children who do not attend a kindergarten), why wouldn't LPS use the first grade enrollment as the incoming count to compare with the twelfth grade count?

Does anyone know if comparing those numbers (1st and 12th) have a more varied outcome in the student enrollment over the years than the K and 12?
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ILIkeLI
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Principal
Mrs.M
Nov 7 2006, 10:41 AM
If 520 is the number, maybe more maybe less, it's important too we all realize it's not 520 families, it's 520 students. Some siblings remained in LPS.

Since attendance and enrollment in Kindergarten is not a state requirement for parents (there are some children who do not attend a kindergarten), why wouldn't LPS use the first grade enrollment as the incoming count to compare with the twelfth grade count?

Does anyone know if comparing those numbers (1st and 12th) have a more varied outcome in the student enrollment over the years than the K and 12?

These are the fall count enrollment numbers reported by LPS to WCRESA since 2000.
"State Aid Membership Count"
18,352 (2000-01)
18,347 (2001-02)
18,373 (2002-03)
18,358 (2003-04)
18,195 (2004-05)
18,132 (2005-06)

As you can easily see, the loss of 520 this year is unprecedented.

http://www.resa.net/finance/student_info__membership.htm

They also give an alternate number for each year for total fall enrollment, these numbers vary....

"Total Students Fall Count"
18,515 (2000-01)
18,549 (2001-02)
18,573 (2002-03)
18,561 (2003-04)
18,373 (2004-05)
18,214 (2005-06)

Either way you look at it the loss this year is unprecedented.
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fyi
Principal
Mrs.M
Nov 7 2006, 10:41 AM
If 520 is the number, maybe more maybe less, it's important too we all realize it's not 520 families, it's 520 students. Some siblings remained in LPS.


That may be true this year......but next year and the years to follow may tell a different story.

If people removed their children from LPS, and enrolled them in private school,
the younger siblings of those children will most likely attend that school rather than LPS. Private schools offer discounts for additional children from the same family.

So LPS isn't just losing current enrollment.....
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NFarquharson
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Principal
Mrs.M
Nov 7 2006, 10:41 AM
If 520 is the number, maybe more maybe less, it's important too we all realize it's not 520 families, it's 520 students. Some siblings remained in LPS.

Since attendance and enrollment in Kindergarten is not a state requirement for parents (there are some children who do not attend a kindergarten), why wouldn't LPS use the first grade enrollment as the incoming count to compare with the twelfth grade count?

Does anyone know if comparing those numbers (1st and 12th) have a more varied outcome in the student enrollment over the years than the K and 12?

There is absolutely no validity to the argument that somehow a comparison of an incoming Kindergarten class with the class of graduating seniors is any indicator of the overall enrollment trend. That just deflects from the real issue.

In fact, the Kindergarten classes have been smaller than the senior classes for many, many years. If you look at the data (I have it, but not with me right now,) you can see that classes always pick up in numbers as they go along, gaining additional students along the way. Obviously there are many people who do not send their Kindergarteners to LPS, so the size increases the next year when they get to 1st grade. But each class continues to increase as they move through the years and from elementary to middle and high school grades.
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ILIkeLI
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Principal
N...
It would be interesting for you to post what numbers you have so that we can see how LPS's reporting compares to WCRESA.
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mega millions
Principal
Grant1
Nov 7 2006, 09:24 AM
And yet...newspaper articles and op ed peices were used as supporting documentation for the LIe by the Demolition Committee

Interesting point Mega...

It's OK in one respect, but not on another...

I don't think an article or two represents the issues surrounding the Legacy Initative or Recall either. Let's not go tit for tat on this. What a waste of time. If you all want to beat me up for my opinions on our school district, go right ahead. It is your right. I am not the board of education, administration or even employed by the school district. We all have things that are important to us. What is important to me, is obviously not important to you and vice versa. Does that make me a bad person? Does it make you a bad person? Great country we live in that allows us to each have our own opinions.
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Administrator
Administrator
Good place to leave that. I think it is safe to say that no matter what your opinion is, we are all going to have to deal with this overwhelming student loss. Where do we go from here???
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