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Where are the Supporters?; The Silence is Deafening...
Topic Started: Sep 27 2006, 05:31 PM (10,505 Views)
ILIkeLI
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I agree, the LI wasn't perpetrated so that kids could have more fun on the bus, meet new friends from across the district or connect with sports team mates.
For all of the choas and hard feelings this has caused, the LI should be producing the superior "specials" and enhanced learning opportunities due to all of the potential teacher collaboration/teaming and more focused professional development. And on top all of of those things, which, by the way, I don't hear happening, the LI was supposed to save the district from financial ruin.
With the impending revelation of the student loss, we will soon see that the LI didn't produce the "savings" either.
So the question is......Where are the savings? How has student learning been impacted? Are teachers teaming or continuing to teach as they did when they were at their "old school" Are all class sizes low/equal across the district? Do students at one school have the same opportunities of those at other schools? Has bullying and bad behavior increased due to the concentration of kids in a narrow age range?
The questions are endless.
Also....Shelly, don't assume that people are "complaining without pursuing a solution" I have 2 friends (they read here but won't post :angry: ) that have been relentlessly pursuing solutions with their principals at their 5/6 schools over the past month. just because people vent here doesn't mean they aren't taking issues up through appropriate channels.
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dance
Principal
This past week I DID hear of two LPS students (5th graders at two differant schools) that are very unhappy at their "new" schools.
I can also tell you that these same students went into this happy, excited and feeling like they were upper classmen. Two months later........
One feels miserable. Has no friends in her class, hates her bus because there are to many kids on it. Sometimes sitting 3 and 4 to a seat. She hopes everyday will be better.
As for the other student....she does not like her long bus ride, and dislikes how crowded her school is.
I know for a fact that one of these students parents are seriously considering moving her to a private school. She has more friends there at this point.
So Congrats to all that seem to have this working out for them.....but please remember there are some where it is not working.
I'm curious to how many students are going somewhere different next year?
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Livonia Voter
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dance
Oct 27 2006, 06:43 PM
This past week I DID hear of two LPS students (5th graders at two differant schools) that are very unhappy at their "new" schools.
I can also tell you that these same students went into this happy, excited and feeling like they were upper classmen. Two months later........
One feels miserable. Has no friends in her class, hates her bus because there are to many kids on it. Sometimes sitting 3 and 4 to a seat. She hopes everyday will be better.
As for the other student....she does not like her long bus ride, and dislikes how crowded her school is.
I know for a fact that one of these students parents are seriously considering moving her to a private school. She has more friends there at this point.
So Congrats to all that seem to have this working out for them.....but please remember there are some where it is not working.
I'm curious to how many students are going somewhere different next year?


And remember, LPS needs the money they get for teaching our kids, far more than we need LPS.

Other options are out there.

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SJC
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Corwin
Oct 27 2006, 03:52 PM
It's interesting that Shelly's comments would be deemed irrelevant when the original point of this thread was polling supporters for their comments on how things are going.

If I said that my child hates the bus ride every day, all the kids in her class were struggling because the teacher was a jerk, and my child had also become uglier since the implementation of the LI, could I really expect anyone to take that seriously as a criticism of the post-LI changes? Of course not.
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livoniamom
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At this point, I don't have much to complain about. Bussing is now reliable, child is happy, teacher is good, etc... My one and only complaint is that the school is just too darn far away (4 miles). I dread after school activities that take place or end around 5:30 because it is a hassle getting there.

As far as anything being "better" than last year -- nothing. Basically, we gained nothing but a school that is much farther away. This change did not in anyway benefit my child as far as I can see.
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Administrator
Administrator
For any one that thinks people are just complaining and not doing something, watch this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=61...2823&pr=goog-sl

This group is from Livonia, born out of the Legacy debate. This is innovative and fresh. People willing to truly look for answers, rather than except without debate.
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Amom
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There are good things happening - people here just don't want to hear them. I won't list the friend making and happy kids because that will be discounted. I will say that my child has told me how much more she likes the 5/6 school than her elementary school last year. She told me that her music class is so much better, her art class has done more so far this school year than the whole school year last year, and she's singing songs in Spanish and enjoying it. Her 6th grade experience so far compared to what my other child had in 6th grade just two years ago is night and day different and better. Pick apart my post all you want - we're happy, she's learning more and we're enjoying the change.
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Administrator
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Thats cool Amom. I think people just want to hear a little more specifics though. Not just "my 6th graders experience is so much better now", or "the bus is great". How is it better and why? What is different? My second grader at Kennedy has the Spanish teacher come in and teach Spanish every Monday and Wednesday. I think that is awesome. I don't think that happened before.
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Corwin
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SJC
Oct 28 2006, 01:28 PM
Corwin
Oct 27 2006, 03:52 PM
It's interesting that Shelly's comments would be deemed irrelevant when the original point of this thread was polling supporters for their comments on how things are going.

If I said that my child hates the bus ride every day, all the kids in her class were struggling because the teacher was a jerk, and my child had also become uglier since the implementation of the LI, could I really expect anyone to take that seriously as a criticism of the post-LI changes? Of course not.

I agree. I think Shelly was trying to say she and her student were happy with the changes (that was my understanding). I agree there may have been some hyperbole in her comments.
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SJC
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Amom
Oct 28 2006, 04:59 PM
There are good things happening - people here just don't want to hear them.  I won't list the friend making and happy kids because that will be discounted.  I will say that my child has told me how much more she likes the 5/6 school than her elementary school last year.  She told me that her music class is so much better, her art class has done more so far this school year than the whole school year last year, and she's singing songs in Spanish and enjoying it.  Her 6th grade experience so far compared to what my other child had in 6th grade just two years ago is night and day different and better.    Pick apart my post all you want - we're happy, she's learning more and we're enjoying the change.

The kids had art and music last year. Aren’t your daughter's positive reactions based on different, better teachers for specials? If the LI surveyed parents, students, and administration about the effectiveness of the teachers, ranked them, and retained only the most energetic, motivated, and effective teachers at the 5/6 schools I'd read your post and say the LI was working. That didn't happen though. Aren't you just experiencing the luck of the draw? I'm not trying to discount your sentiment. I'm suggesting that your child's positive experience has nothing to do with our criticism of LPS and the LI.

By the way, my son loves gym class this year and he hated it last year. He has a different gym teacher this year that lectures less and gets the kids moving as soon as they walk in the gym. That's a happy side effect of the LI.
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rosedale
2nd Grade
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Jimid
Oct 28 2006, 05:10 PM
How is it better and why? What is different?


Her post seems pretty specfic to me.

"She told me that her music class is so much better, her art class has done more so far this school year than the whole school year last year, and she's singing songs in Spanish and enjoying it. "

You just don't want to hear it.
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cmic
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We do want to hear it! We want the LI to be successful. We don't want our kids miserable because it isn't going to change. Most of our experiences haven't been like amom's yet so we want to hear more specifics and share her successes. We are caring parents that want our kids to have the best educational experience possible. If it turned out that the LI made our district a stellar district and learning was improved and specials supplemented instruction in order to increase student learning then the people on this site would be doing back flips as well and I am sure would say "you are right, we were wrong". Unfortunately that isn't the case.

As for specifics... what EXACTLY is different in Art? What EXACTLY is different in Music? We had a FABULOUS Art teacher at Grant and I am sure that there is no teacher in the district that is going to surpass here, ever. But, I would love to hear how it is different. Especially in regards to Spanish! Be specific.
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Amom
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Quote:
 
QUOTE (Jimid @ Oct 28 2006, 05:10 PM)
How is it better and why? What is different?




Her post seems pretty specfic to me.

"She told me that her music class is so much better, her art class has done more so far this school year than the whole school year last year, and she's singing songs in Spanish and enjoying it. "

You just don't want to hear it.


Thank you rosedale.

Quote:
 
The kids had art and music last year. Aren’t your daughter's positive reactions based on different, better teachers for specials?


Actually for music, no they're not. She has the same music teacher that she did last year. This year they go twice a week and concentrate on singing songs and getting ready for a December production. Last year they went once a week and had to spend 1/2 the year trying out different instruments.

In art she has a different teacher that is much, much, better. If the LI didn't happen she'd have the same teacher as the 5 years before where they went over rules in the classroom the first 2 marking periods.

I don't thing these things are so called side effects of the LI - they're positive happenings because of the LI.
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cmic
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Amom
Oct 29 2006, 12:06 PM
Quote:
 
QUOTE (Jimid @ Oct 28 2006, 05:10 PM)
How is it better and why? What is different?




Her post seems pretty specfic to me.

"She told me that her music class is so much better, her art class has done more so far this school year than the whole school year last year, and she's singing songs in Spanish and enjoying it. "

You just don't want to hear it.


Thank you rosedale.

Quote:
 
The kids had art and music last year. Aren’t your daughter's positive reactions based on different, better teachers for specials?


Actually for music, no they're not. She has the same music teacher that she did last year. This year they go twice a week and concentrate on singing songs and getting ready for a December production. Last year they went once a week and had to spend 1/2 the year trying out different instruments.

In art she has a different teacher that is much, much, better. If the LI didn't happen she'd have the same teacher as the 5 years before where they went over rules in the classroom the first 2 marking periods.

I don't thing these things are so called side effects of the LI - they're positive happenings because of the LI.

Who got the other Art teacher? Is that one gone now or are other students being made to suffer with her? I think that is why he is calling it a side effect. Amom, we truly are happy for you that things are going so well. Some kids will adapt well. In fact, I truly hope they all do. Thanks for sharing your experience.
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Momforone
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rosedale
Oct 29 2006, 10:50 AM
Jimid
Oct 28 2006, 05:10 PM
How is it better and why? What is different?


Her post seems pretty specfic to me.

"She told me that her music class is so much better, her art class has done more so far this school year than the whole school year last year, and she's singing songs in Spanish and enjoying it. "

You just don't want to hear it.

I think you are right that her child's classes are much better than they have been in the past. I think part of the problem in LPS is that each school seemed/seems to have a different standard. Someone posted that their second grader had spanish. We do not or did not have this @ our school. Somehow how the buildings are not equal. I really don't know how that can be changed. Any idea's out there??

I still don't understand how our children can benefit from the 5/6 schools. IMO. They are so large and they are there for such a short time. The sense of community is removed from these buildings. They were suppose to be able to be in "school" with their friends through graduation. They are in the same building, but are not necessarily with their peers in the classroom. I think, IMO, this concept is too soon. It's really bad enough in middle school that this disruption occurs. If you look @ the studies, everything points to children achieving @ higher levels, in small schools and smaller classrooms. It's proven in case study, after study. I think LPS made up this configuration only by the fact that it's the only one that would fit the buildings. This massive school closing was done much too soon and without necessity. We only needed to close two schools due to declining enrollment. Now with the student loss due to the LI, LPS got their forcast. Decling enrollment except with large financial losses. I think we will find out on the 1st, if LPS posts the numbers.
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