Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Add Reply
Where are the Supporters?; The Silence is Deafening...
Topic Started: Sep 27 2006, 05:31 PM (10,508 Views)
SJC
Member Avatar
Principal
whyus
Oct 1 2006, 06:51 AM
I can't believe you said no one follows jobs to Mexico or China.  You obviously do not know anyone, but that doesn't mean it doesn;t happen. Our best friends, who lived in Livonia, sent 2 kids to Livonia schools, were forced to locate to El Paso, Texas to work in Mexico from a big Tier One automotive supplier.  They moved in the summer.  I am not trying to argue that it involves many of teh kids that left the school district.  But we certainly don't know all teh easons.  I am a CPA and believe me, I see many people being affected by the economy and forced to leave Michigan or the area.  It seems the news just keeps getting worse.

So your friends lost their jobs due to the Michigan economy and were forced to move to El Paso, Texas, obtain a visa to work in Mexico, and commute across the border to a manufacturing job, all to have the privilege of making the equivalent of our minimum wage. Your friends could have avoided the relocation costs and made more money working at McDonalds.

Manufacturing jobs are moving to other countries. The jobs aren't leaving Michigan and going to Texas. That might have been true 20 years ago, but not anymore. The jobs are going to India, Philippines, Mexico, China, and Costa Rica. You could not raise a family in US on the wages these people get paid.

I know people who have lost their jobs because their companies cannot compete with low-cost Chinese manufacturing. They are not taking crash courses in Cantonese.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
garfield
Principal
1) I don't think not wanting to be around negative people is a bad thing. Seriously, why would I want my children in a school with parents who only focus on the negatives? It is important for both supporters and opposers of the LI to just move on and focus on making the best out the present situation whether you are happy with it or not. Our schools will work just fine if that is what we want. However, if we want our schools to fail or expect them to fail they more than likely will. Be careful of the self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm just being honest when I say that I'd rather not be around negative people and it certainly wouldn't bother me in the least if they left the district, because truthfully, I don't think that many parents are continually negative. It's just that the ones that are spend a lot of time on this site.

2) Regarding taping classroom conversations, please read the following from the Michigan Legislature:

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931


750.539d Installation, placement, or use of device for observing, recording, transmitting, photographing or eavesdropping in private place.

Sec. 539d.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not do either of the following:

(a) Install, place, or use in any private place, without the consent of the person or persons entitled to privacy in that place, any device for observing, recording, transmitting, photographing, or eavesdropping upon the sounds or events in that place.

(b) Distribute, disseminate, or transmit for access by any other person a recording, photograph, or visual image the person knows or has reason to know was obtained in violation of this section.

(2) This section does not prohibit security monitoring in a residence if conducted by or at the direction of the owner or principal occupant of that residence unless conducted for a lewd or lascivious purpose.

(3) A person who violates or attempts to violate this section is guilty of a crime as follows:

(a) For a violation or attempted violation of subsection (1)(a):

(i) Except as provided in subparagraph (ii), the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.

(ii) If the person was previously convicted of violating or attempting to violate this section, the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.

(b) For a violation or attempted violation of subsection (1)(b), the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.

(4) This section does not prohibit a person from being charged with, convicted of, or punished for any other violation of law committed by that person while violating or attempting to violate subsection (1)(a) or (b

Furthermore, most school districts have policies against taping in the classroom without administrative or at least teacher approval. Now I realize some of you may want to argue the definition of a private place. Typically, classrooms are considered private while common areas such as the auditorium and the gym are not. A private location is one where the general public does not typically have access. Anyone can go to the school play or basketball game, but schools don't let anyone come in off the street and go into classrooms.

3) Regarding declining enrollments, the school district that I work in was down 5% at the beginning of the school year. Surrounding districts were down even more students. Over 3% of our students went out of state. The most common destinations were Indiana, Illinois, Arizona, and Texas. Ohio's economy is just as bad as ours, so few families moved there. Only 1% of our students went to other districts within the state. In recent weeks, we have had a few new students. Most of these students came from Detroit. However, we did not see too many new students as we are not a "School-Of-Choice" district. Since Livonia is not either, we should not see too many Detroit kids moving to our schools. Now clearly some families did move out due to the LI, but not all moved due to the LI. Do not blame the LI for everything that doesn't go perfect.

4) In my school district, we have had staff changes, students have had their teachers changed, and we have changed bus routes during the past three weeks. As much as we'd like to have everything perfect when the kids walk through the door, the truth is you don't always know what you are going to get until the kids show up in September. Don't judge the LI on what you see now, because many other things contribute to the things that may be frustrating you. Wait until we are a few months in to pass judgement. If there are still major problems in a few months, then you should be complaining.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
gma3
Principal
Yeah, your right garfield, enrollment is not down due to the LI. It would have been down anyway.

Give me a break!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SJC
Member Avatar
Principal
garfield
Oct 1 2006, 01:34 PM
1) I don't think not wanting to be around negative people is a bad thing. Seriously, why would I want my children in a school with parents who only focus on the negatives?

Your Lessard-like statement about the negative attitude of the people who oppose the LI is completely baseless. I see the people (at least the ones I know) on this board at the school volunteering, attending events, and participating in the PTA. I don’t know anyone has been negative towards a single student, teacher, or principal except in the context of the LI. I am not a negative person at all. My wife is a room mom yet again this year. We’re working closely with my son’s teachers on their specific education needs including introducing ourselves to the principle and gym teacher at the new school. We haven’t disappeared, like most of the supporters. We haven’t shut our website down. We haven’t abandoned the schools or the district. That’s exactly why we are still working in opposition to certain members of the BOE. Their poor planning, closed minds, and closed ears are hurting the school system.

garfield
Oct 1 2006, 01:34 PM

750.539d Installation, placement, or use of device for observing, recording, transmitting, photographing or eavesdropping in private place.

Sec. 539d.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not do either of the following:

(a) Install, place, or use in any private place, without the [size=7]consent[/size] of the person or persons entitled to privacy in that place, any device for observing, recording, transmitting, photographing, or eavesdropping upon the sounds or events in that place.


Nice Google and pasting. Now look up the definition of consent. In Michigan consent is only required by ONE of the participants being taped. Once concent is established there is no crime, no penalties, etc. Perfectly legal.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
4kids
Principal



Actually, CFLF has a count at approx. 210 students that were being pulled out of LPS because of the LI. I didn't add the surveys that we received after the recall to the ones we already had. But it was over 200 for sure. And believe me, from what I hear there are many more who did not fill out the survey. I predicted between 350 - 400 students, and surprise, surprise I was right. It wasn't too difficult to figure that one out, this was a very stupid ill conceived plan that is not benefiting anyone except maybe the administration and the LPS employees. It doesn't make any sense when the MEA was backing the LIe that was to lay off 42 LPS employees and help against the recall, then turn around and head up the recall for the Garden City district for laying off 20 some employees and out-sourcing. What does that tell you? The district probably didn't end up cutting many jobs except for the 8 remaining teachers that remained laid-off. Plus they had to hire more teachers for the so called specials. Don't forget, Scheel's daughter-in-law was hired.

In a meeting Lessard made it a point to ask Leipa, "How much are the 5/6 specials costing? Nothing? Is that correct?" Which of course is a bunch of bull crap. And they are recalling more teachers tomorrow night.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Iliveon-Levandownbytheriver
Member Avatar
Principal
garfield
Oct 1 2006, 01:34 PM
Y1) I don't think not wanting to be around negative people is a bad thing. Seriously, why would I want my children in a school with parents who only focus on the negatives? It is important for both supporters and opposers of the LI to just move on and focus on making the best out the present situation whether you are happy with it or not. Our schools will work just fine if that is what we want. However, if we want our schools to fail or expect them to fail they more than likely will. Be careful of the self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm just being honest when I say that I'd rather not be around negative people and it certainly wouldn't bother me in the least if they left the district, because truthfully, I don't think that many parents are continually negative. It's just that the ones that are spend a lot of time on this site.


I think you need to follow what you preach. You chose to not be around negativity...well then what do you call this?

"less unhappy people poisoning the school community, all resulting in a better school" Thats a positive statement? I think not.


And your other statement..... "Seriously, why would I want my children in a school with parents who only focus on the negatives?....... However, if we want our schools to fail or expect them to fail they more than likely will. Be careful of the self-fulfilling prophecy.

If we werent so driven with our "negative attitudes" and our "self fulfilling prophecies of failure" you would'nt be able to feel so high and mighty. So enjoy it while you can! :rolleyes:

The district would be in huge trouble if everone opposed to this plan pulled their kids out. They need us more than you would like to believe. Just thank your lucky stars alot of them did stay.


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Iliveon-Levandownbytheriver
Member Avatar
Principal
They are recalling teachers back from being layed off? Did we start the year with not enough? Where are these teachers going exactly?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Momforone
Principal
I would suspect that the teachers are already hired and that they have to officially bring them back @ a BOE meeting. Only a guess though!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
plmask
Principal
Momofone
Oct 1 2006, 05:56 PM
I would suspect that the teachers are already hired and that they have to officially bring them back @ a BOE meeting. Only a guess though!

That's correct.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Zeke
Member Avatar
Principal
garfield
Oct 1 2006, 02:34 PM
1) I don't think not wanting to be around negative people is a bad thing. Seriously, why would I want my children in a school with parents who only focus on the negatives? It is important for both supporters and opposers of the LI to just move on and focus on making the best out the present situation whether you are happy with it or not. Our schools will work just fine if that is what we want. However, if we want our schools to fail or expect them to fail they more than likely will. Be careful of the self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm just being honest when I say that I'd rather not be around negative people and it certainly wouldn't bother me in the least if they left the district, because truthfully, I don't think that many parents are continually negative. It's just that the ones that are spend a lot of time on this site.

2) Regarding taping classroom conversations, please read the following from the Michigan Legislature:

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931


750.539d Installation, placement, or use of device for observing, recording, transmitting, photographing or eavesdropping in private place.

Sec. 539d.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not do either of the following:

(a) Install, place, or use in any private place, without the consent of the person or persons entitled to privacy in that place, any device for observing, recording, transmitting, photographing, or eavesdropping upon the sounds or events in that place.

(B) Distribute, disseminate, or transmit for access by any other person a recording, photograph, or visual image the person knows or has reason to know was obtained in violation of this section.

(2) This section does not prohibit security monitoring in a residence if conducted by or at the direction of the owner or principal occupant of that residence unless conducted for a lewd or lascivious purpose.

(3) A person who violates or attempts to violate this section is guilty of a crime as follows:

(a) For a violation or attempted violation of subsection (1)(a):

(i) Except as provided in subparagraph (ii), the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.

(ii) If the person was previously convicted of violating or attempting to violate this section, the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.

(B) For a violation or attempted violation of subsection (1)(B), the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.

(4) This section does not prohibit a person from being charged with, convicted of, or punished for any other violation of law committed by that person while violating or attempting to violate subsection (1)(a) or (b

Furthermore, most school districts have policies against taping in the classroom without administrative or at least teacher approval. Now I realize some of you may want to argue the definition of a private place. Typically, classrooms are considered private while common areas such as the auditorium and the gym are not. A private location is one where the general public does not typically have access. Anyone can go to the school play or basketball game, but schools don't let anyone come in off the street and go into classrooms.

3) Regarding declining enrollments, the school district that I work in was down 5% at the beginning of the school year. Surrounding districts were down even more students. Over 3% of our students went out of state. The most common destinations were Indiana, Illinois, Arizona, and Texas. Ohio's economy is just as bad as ours, so few families moved there. Only 1% of our students went to other districts within the state. In recent weeks, we have had a few new students. Most of these students came from Detroit. However, we did not see too many new students as we are not a "School-Of-Choice" district. Since Livonia is not either, we should not see too many Detroit kids moving to our schools. Now clearly some families did move out due to the LI, but not all moved due to the LI. Do not blame the LI for everything that doesn't go perfect.

4) In my school district, we have had staff changes, students have had their teachers changed, and we have changed bus routes during the past three weeks. As much as we'd like to have everything perfect when the kids walk through the door, the truth is you don't always know what you are going to get until the kids show up in September. Don't judge the LI on what you see now, because many other things contribute to the things that may be frustrating you. Wait until we are a few months in to pass judgement. If there are still major problems in a few months, then you should be complaining.

A public school is not considered a private place.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SJC
Member Avatar
Principal
garfield
Oct 1 2006, 01:34 PM
3) Regarding declining enrollments, the school district that I work in was down 5% at the beginning of the school year. Surrounding districts were down even more students. Over 3% of our students went out of state. The most common destinations were Indiana, Illinois, Arizona, and Texas. Ohio's economy is just as bad as ours, so few families moved there. Only 1% of our students went to other districts within the state. In recent weeks, we have had a few new students. Most of these students came from Detroit. However, we did not see too many new students as we are not a "School-Of-Choice" district. Since Livonia is not either, we should not see too many Detroit kids moving to our schools. Now clearly some families did move out due to the LI, but not all moved due to the LI. Do not blame the LI for everything that doesn't go perfect.

Would any of the supporters like to update their comments on the Michigan economy now that virtually all the surrounding school districts other than Clarenceville and Taylor are showing an increase in students? Would you like to suggest that the Livonia economy is worse than the surrounding communities? Are people pulling their kids out of school and moving 20 minutes away to find jobs?

You can call us negative, suggest that I sit in front of a computer all day (I do - welcome to the knowledge-based economy), and suggest that all supporters are happy. But I'd still like to know what you're happy about. We have established that your kids like their teachers and that the principals had to deal with a huge amount of work during this transition. I’m willing to stipulate that Livonia has the same quality teachers it has always had. Nobody said the LI would make your kids hate their next teacher. We said it would hurt our property values. We said it would not solve any of the problems it was designed to solve. Unless you view chasing 200+ kids out of LPS in exchange for small class sizes as a positive result.

Despite my anger and sarcasm I assure you that I am very open-minded. Please provide some actual positive impacts from the LI other than "my kids are happy". Personally I’m hoping you can highlight something other than instrumental music because 1) the savings that were supposed to fund that program have disappeared so don’t get too attached, and 2) I am not musical at all: No talent, two tin ears, etc. So I have a hard time seeing instrumental or vocal music as a huge positive.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
boredbytheboard
Principal
Garfield, I cannot believe how insulting and disrespectful this comment is to everyone in this school district . Am I ready to set aside my constitutional right to free speech because you don't like my views? No! Perhaps you should pull your children and put them in a Communist system , where we have no choice but to listen to the government.
I have pulled my children out of the LPS district, but before the LI came along , I volunteered for every school event that was being held, every field trip and was room Mother when no one was willing to be , have dried tears of students, have fixed zippers and spent money out of my pocket so the children could have holiday parties. I hope your happy that I'm gone and others like me , if they are NO cooperation and compromise from the Administration and their supporters, this is the result they will get. Perhaps people that are ignorant of others and their efforts to get anything POSITIVE in the school systems done should re-examine what we have really lost - a lot of caring parents.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Elisa
Member Avatar
Principal
Boredbythebored, I agree wholeheartedly, LPS lost a lot of great parents.

Garfield: read below...

A brain drain? Not here
Educated immigrants turn the tide in state

September 13, 2006

Email this Print this BY JOHN GALLAGHER

Cris Boyer, 25, of Troy creates video games and owns a business. He stays in Michigan because of personal ties and a lower cost of living. (SUSAN TUSA/Detroit Free Press)

Related links:

• Is the notion of brain drain in Michigan unfounded?

If any college graduate could be expected to flee Michigan for a state like California, it might be Cris Boyer.

Now 25 years old, the 2003 Michigan State University graduate creates video games, speaks Japanese and owns his own company. So what's he doing living in Troy instead of, say, Silicon Valley?

"I grew up around here," the Royal Oak native said last week. "I really like the area. And I work with a kids group here in the area, and that's something I really wouldn't want to leave."

Boyer's desire to live in Michigan, and similar choices by thousands of other people, shows how complicated -- and often how mistaken -- the notion of a Michigan brain drain can be.

Despite real concerns that people, especially young people, are leaving Michigan, some demographers say the notion of a brain drain -- a debilitating loss of educated people -- has been oversold to an anxious public hammered by bad news about the automotive industry.
"It's certainly overblown, and to some extent has characteristics of a myth," said Jim Rogers, manager of data for the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments, a regional planning agency.

In fact, the state's population is growing, and its population of college graduates also is on the rise.Michigan is hardly free from demographic worries. The state's population continues to grow more slowly than the nation as a whole. Fast-growing Sunbelt states like Arizona add several new residents for each new one in Michigan.

But Rogers sees the state's growing number of college graduates as a sign of hope, especially for metro Detroit.

"Despite the bad news about the auto industry, despite the fact that we have higher unemployment than the nation as a whole, and this litany of bad news that we've gotten so used to here, we're a large metropolitan area with a large population and a relatively well-educated population compared to the country as a whole, and despite some domestic losses, are still a very strong center of population and industry," he said.

Immigration is the difference

The idea of a Michigan brain drain arose because, for many years, Census Bureau figures have shown that more college graduates leave Michigan for other states than move in from elsewhere in the country. The net outflow is particularly strong among younger residents.

But that's just part of the story.

The state's population continues to increase, thanks to the natural birth rate and an influx of immigrants from overseas.

Perhaps even more important for the state's economic future, Michigan's population of college graduates -- the people who put the "brain" in brain drain -- has been increasing, not declining. Between 2001 and 2004, the Census Bureau's American Community Survey data showed a net increase of 35,700 people with a bachelor's degree or higher choosing to migrate to Michigan.
"Which is news to a lot of people," Rogers said. "That's not the conventional wisdom because this loss of college graduates through migration domestically has been so hyped."

Foreign immigration plays a big part. In terms of state-to-state migration, more college grads leave Michigan than arrive. But the rising number of educated immigrants -- mainly men with mechanical engineering degrees from Canada, India and China -- tips the balance into the positive column.

As recently as 1980, the Census Bureau found just 8,300 foreign immigrants with college degrees coming to Michigan during the previous five-year period. By 2001-2004, though, the number of college-educated foreigners arriving in the state had totaled 61,800.

"The international immigration of college graduates is something that has increased dramatically over time, and it's changed the picture for Michigan," Elaine Fielding, a senior research analyst with the University of Michigan's office of budget and planning, said last week.

William Frey, a U-M demographer, echoed that sentiment.

Educated foreign immigrants "are less concerned about a warm climate or amenities," he said last week. "They're worried about the jobs and not having a high cost of living. So this immigration may be a source of gain for Michigan that people have not realized yet."

Probably because of the demands of the auto industry, metro Detroit's foreign immigrants rank among the most educated in the nation, Frey said. Of the 50 metro areas with the highest percentages of college-educated immigrants, metro Detroit ranked fourth highest. More than 53% of foreign immigrants who came to this area in 2004-2005 had a bachelor's degree or higher.

The brain drain idea has taken root in part because many young Michiganders do leave.

Graduates from Michigan stay

Tracey Killoran, 24, a 2003 U-M graduate, recently moved to Chicago for a job in financial services. She says job opportunities were limited here in her home state but plentiful in Chicago.

"It's worked out pretty well for me," the Grand Rapids native said last week. "I was definitely ready to make a move after living in Michigan for most of my life, and Chicago isn't that far away."

Sarah Gutowski, 25, also a 2003 U-M graduate, moved to Chicago two years ago to work in graphic design. Better economic opportunities there were only part of the lure.

"I wanted to experience city life," the Northville native said last week. "I thought it would be more opportunity for my job and just more things to do socially."

Today, living not far from Chicago's lakefront, she reports meeting lots of great people and being "really happy."

But sometimes, the advantages work in Michigan's favor.

"The cost of living is dramatically lower here than, say, San Francisco or Los Angeles or Seattle, the primary hubs of the industry," video-game creator Boyer said last week.

And sometimes state loyalty plays a part.

Jennifer Putney, 25, a St. Clair County native and a 2003 MSU grad, strongly considered moving to Colorado after graduation. She loves the West's skiing, sunshine and other amenities. But she, too, chose Michigan. She works as a union organizer based in Detroit.

"I guess I have faith that Michigan can turn itself around, and I'd like to be a part of that," she said last week.

Whether young college grads move out of Michigan depends to a great extent on where they grew up. About 53% of U-M's 2001-2005 graduates still live in the state, data from the university show.

But there's a big contrast between the students who were Michigan natives and those who came to U-M from out-of-state, research analyst Fielding said.

About 77% of grads who were Michigan natives still live in the state. In contrast, only 10% of U-M graduates who came to Ann Arbor from another state still live in Michigan. But those out-of-state graduates were the ones the state might have expected to lose anyway.

Wayne State University reported similar figures for its graduates.

Economic opportunity, or lack of it, clearly plays an important role. Whether the most recent restructurings and layoffs afflicting companies like Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp. diminish the number of young college grads coming or staying in Michigan for the balance of this decade is something that has demographers worried.

Meanwhile, the notion that Michigan is suffering a brain drain has so taken hold that both Democrats and Republicans accept it.

Fighting the brain drain motivated Gov. Jennifer Granholm to create her Cool Cities program, which awards grants to aging cities to help create lively enclaves of urban living to attract younger workers.

And battling the brain drain also is behind part of Republican gubernatorial candidate Dick DeVos' campaign to unseat Granholm.

Contact JOHN GALLAGHER at 313-222-5173 or gallagher@freepress.com.

Email this
Print this

Copyright © 2006 Detroit Free Press Inc.

Use of this site indicates your agreement to the Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, updated 9/21/05.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kimmie
Principal
SJC
Oct 9 2006, 12:28 PM


Would any of the supporters like to update their comments on the Michigan economy now that virtually all the surrounding school districts other than Clarenceville and Taylor are showing an increase in students? [/QUOTE]
I would just like to mention, since you brought the subject up of Taylors continuing decline in enrollment that we (Taylor residents) are still feeling the brunt of the plan that eventually was brought down.

The truth of it is, is that after the administration realized that the plan was a dismal failure they went to the board with the truths and a new vote was brought to the table. We were given a reason that enrollment numbers changed in the middle school in a way that affected the whole plan. (There were so many other reasons that this plan was a failure but they did not reveal those).

It is my belief, especially from talking with others, that alot of people are fed up with the complete ineptness of our people on high and that they aren't buying their "stories" any longer. So in short, we are still being affected by "the plan" that never went into affect.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jodygirlh
Principal
Whether Garfield and other teachers like her, like it or not, this plan has been a dismal failure in the $ saving department. (in many other departments as well IMO). With this many kids being pulled, there will be an actual deficit as a result of this 'money saving' plan.

The question is, will Liepa and the BOE admit the mistake at some point, or will it just be more lies and more spin regarding the finances and everything else. Most of us 'negative people who have pulled our kids' believe the latter. Remember, Liepa said in the beginning, that this plan was being implemented 'to save money'.

I'm so glad you are not a teacher here Garfield, because anyone with a differing opinion is now subject to all kinds of nasty statements from you-even when your kids are so little, you have no clue about all of the problems the LI has created.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Fully Featured & Customizable Free Forums
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Livonia Neighbors Archive · Next Topic »
Add Reply