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School Supplies/Fundraisers; Going Broke
Topic Started: Sep 13 2006, 09:43 AM (7,051 Views)
momoffour
Principal
I had to pay to rent a trumpet for my daughter when she was in sixth grade. That was before the L.I. So this charge is nothing new just made more aware of it.
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kristin
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Principal
momoffour
Sep 15 2006, 05:53 AM
I had to pay to rent a trumpet for my daughter when she was in sixth grade. That was before the L.I. So this charge is nothing new just made more aware of it.

what year was this? my sons were in the sith grade in 2000 and 2002 at Kennedy and I paid nothing!
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heymom
Principal
I paid a few years ago. Didnt pay in 5th grade when they were doing the instrumet introduction (violins, brass, woodwinds, etc.) But, when they made the choice to be in band in 6th grade (art was the alternate class) you had to rent or purchase an instrument. To my knowledge thats the way it's always been. With the reintroduction of the program, things are a little different this year. Our 6th graders are at a disadvantage because they did not have that full year of manadatory exploration in 5th grade that was taken away a few year ago due to budget cuts. So, this year they are choosing, and purchasing or renting instruments, not really knowing whether this is something they will enjoy in the long run. But, this situation would have occured when they brought back the program, regardless of the changes of the LI. An instrument is a good investment, especially if you have younger children. Woodwind-Brasswind company, for example (internet) has instruments that you can buy, almost for the cost of a lease. My child played trumpet for 2 years and is passing it along to his 6th grade sibling. After cleaning, sanitizing and refurbishing for a resonable price, the instrument will be like new again.

Sure would be nice if the district would sponsor a music "garage sale" night, prior to the rental nights. That would be a great district wide function, maybe something the PTA's could group together to do?

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kristin
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heymom
Sep 15 2006, 06:25 AM
I paid a few years ago. Didnt pay in 5th grade when they were doing the instrumet introduction (violins, brass, woodwinds, etc.) But, when they made the choice to be in band in 6th grade (art was the alternate class) you had to rent or purchase an instrument. To my knowledge thats the way it's always been. With the reintroduction of the program, things are a little different this year. Our 6th graders are at a disadvantage because they did not have that full year of manadatory exploration in 5th grade that was taken away a few year ago due to budget cuts. So, this year they are choosing, and purchasing or renting instruments, not really knowing whether this is something they will enjoy in the long run. But, this situation would have occured when they brought back the program, regardless of the changes of the LI. An instrument is a good investment, especially if you have younger children. Woodwind-Brasswind company, for example (internet) has instruments that you can buy, almost for the cost of a lease. My child played trumpet for 2 years and is passing it along to his 6th grade sibling. After cleaning, sanitizing and refurbishing for a resonable price, the instrument will be like new again.

Sure would be nice if the district would sponsor a music "garage sale" night, prior to the rental nights. That would be a great district wide function, maybe something the PTA's could group together to do?

Your right it was in fifth grade.How quickly I forget!Maybe someone should set up a sight that Livonia residents can post avail instruments.
Is it possable that the disstrict make a profit on the rentals?That would explain why they wouldn't sponsor a garage sale event.
:huh:
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NFarquharson
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Principal
I wonder how everyone was able to decide which instrument to play and which language to study before these year-long "exploration" classes. They didn't exist when I was in school. Maybe we need "exploration" classes in every subject so kids can spend a year deciding what they are interested in before making a committment to enroll in any course. :blink: Only one problem: the teachers I have spoken with seem to tell me that the kids are no further ahead in the actual subject matter for having taken them. Why are we doing it again????
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heymom
Principal
I can tell you how we picked many years ago. You decided that you wanted to be in band, and the instructor paid a visit to your house. He brought a woodwind instrument and a brass instrument and a flute. You blew into them all and whichever one you played the best is where you ended up. Brass blowers could choose trumpet, trombone or baritone. Woodwinds got to choose clarinet, sax or oboe Flutes got flutes. If you were a lousy blower you got to play drums. It was quite simple and I don't remember anyone ever arguing about it. I guess we really didn't get to "pick" - we were told which instrument we were best suited for (yeah right, a crafty way to balance the band ...). Even in middle school, if you were not in band you were in vocal music. Oh yeah, once they started "expanding" the band and adding instruments like Tubas, Baritones, Bass Clarinets, etc. - those expensive instruments were provided by the district for students to use - who can afford a tuba?
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gr1
Principal
Quote:
 
I wonder how everyone was able to decide which instrument to play and which language to study before these year-long "exploration" classes. They didn't exist when I was in school. Maybe we need "exploration" classes in every subject so kids can spend a year deciding what they are interested in before making a committment to enroll in any course.  Only one problem: the teachers I have spoken with seem to tell me that the kids are no further ahead in the actual subject matter for having taken them. Why are we doing it again????


When I was in 6th grade I chose an instrument based on which one was easiest to carry home.

I think the exploration classes sparks an interest for them. It may be something they truly like and will seek out further study later on or use their interest (or lack of) to help them make decisions regarding their electives in middle school. The fifth grade music is an example of this. A kid who had never considered taking up an instrument may decide they like it, or the reverse could occur. In both cases, the kids have learned a little about what it's like to handle a musical instrument, read some sheet music and hopefully appreciate what an art it is to create music. They know something about themselves and their ability to play an instrument, which one they may like to try or if they absolutely hate it and will never bother again, which is valuable to know too!
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fyi
Principal
It is my understanding that the district only provides the large expensive instruments free of charge. If your child choses to play something smaller and more popular such as trumpet, flute, or clarinet----parents must pick up the tab.

Per the State Board of Education:

Quote:
 
• If band or orchestra is offered as part of the curriculum and a grade and credit are given, then the school district is required to provide instruments free, on a reasonable basis, to qualified students. It does not mean that a school district must consider owning enough instruments to provide each eligible student with an instrument of his or her choice. Qualified only refers to reasonable student aptitude or ability, not availability of instrument. • Any locker fees, instrument, or uniform rental fees collected in advance should be refunded to the students. • Project materials for required or elective classes, such as shop, art, drafting, science, or home economics must be provided to the student at no charge.
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Administrator
Administrator
gr1
Sep 15 2006, 09:03 AM
Quote:
 
I wonder how everyone was able to decide which instrument to play and which language to study before these year-long "exploration" classes. They didn't exist when I was in school. Maybe we need "exploration" classes in every subject so kids can spend a year deciding what they are interested in before making a committment to enroll in any course.  Only one problem: the teachers I have spoken with seem to tell me that the kids are no further ahead in the actual subject matter for having taken them. Why are we doing it again????


When I was in 6th grade I chose an instrument based on which one was easiest to carry home.

I think the exploration classes sparks an interest for them. It may be something they truly like and will seek out further study later on or use their interest (or lack of) to help them make decisions regarding their electives in middle school. The fifth grade music is an example of this. A kid who had never considered taking up an instrument may decide they like it, or the reverse could occur. In both cases, the kids have learned a little about what it's like to handle a musical instrument, read some sheet music and hopefully appreciate what an art it is to create music. They know something about themselves and their ability to play an instrument, which one they may like to try or if they absolutely hate it and will never bother again, which is valuable to know too!

http://www.nwrel.org/scpd/sirs/10/c020.html


Many educators past and present have argued for large schools on grounds of curriculum quality. Following James Conant's original line of reasoning, they argue that larger schools can offer more numerous and more varied curricular offerings than small schools can. Therefore, goes the argument, operating small schools with more limited curricula is unfair to the students who attend them.

While this has a certain common sense appeal, examination of the research reveals that there simply is no reliable relationship between school size and curriculum quality (Fowler and Walberg 1991; Gregory 1992; Howley 1994, 1996; McGuire 1989; Melnick, et al. 1986; Monk 1987, 1992; Monk and Haller 1993; Nachtigal 1992; Pittman and Haughwout 1987; Rogers 1987; Williams 1990). For one thing, researchers have found that "it takes a lot of bigness to add a little variety"—that is, "on the average a 100% increase in enrollment yields only a 17% increase in variety of offerings" (Pittman and Haughwout, 337). Moreover, "[t]he strength of the relationship between school size and curricular offerings diminishes as schools become larger. Increases in the size of very small schools are associated with greater curricular gains than increases in the size of larger schools" (Monk 1992).

For another thing, researchers have found that the allegedly richer curriculum that larger schools are able to support tend to be made up, not of higher-level courses in, say, math or foreign languages, but rather of additional introductory courses in non-core areas. For still another, investigators have found that only five to twelve percent of the students in large schools avail themselves of the extra courses these schools typically offer (McGuire 1989; Monk 1992; Rogers 1987).

Finally, Monk, in his 1987 study of the size-curriculum relationship, concludes that, "it is possible to offer at the 400 pupil level a curriculum that compares quite favorably in terms of breadth and depth with curriculums offered in much larger settings" (27).

Beyond these findings, the development and use of distance learning and other technologies in isolated settings is increasing and can be expected to further ameliorate curriculum inequalities.
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NFarquharson
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Principal
gr1
Sep 15 2006, 08:03 AM
Quote:
 
I wonder how everyone was able to decide which instrument to play and which language to study before these year-long "exploration" classes. They didn't exist when I was in school. Maybe we need "exploration" classes in every subject so kids can spend a year deciding what they are interested in before making a committment to enroll in any course.  Only one problem: the teachers I have spoken with seem to tell me that the kids are no further ahead in the actual subject matter for having taken them. Why are we doing it again????


When I was in 6th grade I chose an instrument based on which one was easiest to carry home.

I think the exploration classes sparks an interest for them. It may be something they truly like and will seek out further study later on or use their interest (or lack of) to help them make decisions regarding their electives in middle school. The fifth grade music is an example of this. A kid who had never considered taking up an instrument may decide they like it, or the reverse could occur. In both cases, the kids have learned a little about what it's like to handle a musical instrument, read some sheet music and hopefully appreciate what an art it is to create music. They know something about themselves and their ability to play an instrument, which one they may like to try or if they absolutely hate it and will never bother again, which is valuable to know too!

Couldn't those same goals be accomplished without the "exploration" class in whatever grade they start instrumental music? They may be sparked to continue with the instrument, they could learn to read music, know what is is like to handle an instrument...all the things you mention. In addition, sticking to one intrument may get them further down the road to actually being able to get a sound out of it that doesn't raise the hair on the back of the necks of their parents. :lol: I guess I don't see the value spending a whole school year "trying" instruments. At most they should do that the first few weeks and then have them chose one and move forward from there. They would be further along in the end.
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Administrator
Administrator
Absolutely! This is true with foreign language also. Pick one and start learning it!
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fyi
Principal
Jimid
Sep 15 2006, 11:08 AM
Absolutely! This is true with foreign language also. Pick one and start learning it!

I believe that's how it works at the middle school level. You pick either Orchestra or Band. They spend the first couple of weeks learning notes, etc. By the 3rd week your child choses the instrument of their choice.
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Elisa
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Principal
This is from our curriculum, maybe they need to do something like the following for the 4th graders there:

3rd Grade Clinics
Students are given a demonstration of each wind and string instrument in late April. In May (see calendar), students are given the opportunity to try instruments while under the supervision and guidance of district music staff. Clinicians will work with the children to determine if the chosen instrument will best suit the student, and make an instrument recommendation based on their evaluation.
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LPS Customer
Principal
Jimid
Sep 15 2006, 12:08 PM
Absolutely! This is true with foreign language also. Pick one and start learning it!

will somebody please tell me what benefit learning Latin will serve? pre-med, perhaps?
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fyi
Principal
LPS Customer
Sep 15 2006, 11:50 AM
Jimid
Sep 15 2006, 12:08 PM
Absolutely! This is true with foreign language also. Pick one and start learning it!

will somebody please tell me what benefit learning Latin will serve? pre-med, perhaps?

Looking for a job @ the vatican? :D Future Pope? Maybe it would be useful if you are planning a trip to Rome for mass?
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