Small Class sizes

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Small Class sizes; what do you think?
Tweet Topic Started: Mar 12 2006, 10:59 PM (827 Views)
Derek	Mar 12 2006, 10:59 PM Post #1
Principal Posts: 137 Group: Members Member #269 Joined: January 5, 2006	"The number of students per teacher in a classroom has been an issue in collective bargaining since the first contract negotiations began in Michigan more than 30 years ago. Unions maintain that smaller classes allow teachers to spend more time with each student, thus boosting educational achievement. Consequently, many of Michigan’s school districts have negotiated language that affects class size into their bargaining agreements. Negotiating smaller class sizes has proven to be a costly arrangement for school districts, especially those with growing student populations. Further, there is little good evidence suggesting that small classes predictably and systematically yield higher student achievement. Establishing class size requirements within a collective bargaining agreement restricts the school administration’s decision–making about the most effective use of staff, space and scarce financial resources."



Administrator	Mar 12 2006, 11:05 PM Post #2
Administrator Posts: 3,069 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: October 5, 2005	Are you hinting that the class sizes next year are going to be much larger than what everyone was told Derek?



Derek	Mar 12 2006, 11:55 PM Post #3
Principal Posts: 137 Group: Members Member #269 Joined: January 5, 2006	Jimid Mar 12 2006, 11:05 PM Are you hinting that the class sizes next year are going to be much larger than what everyone was told Derek? No I was wondering what folks thought about class sizes....



Administrator	Mar 13 2006, 12:04 AM Post #4
Administrator Posts: 3,069 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: October 5, 2005	Here is a link to some research http://s14.invisionfree.com/Hull_Neighbors...p?showtopic=995 Do a Google Search and you will get much more.



Administrator	Mar 13 2006, 12:09 AM Post #5
Administrator Posts: 3,069 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: October 5, 2005	Also, what size classes are you suggesting? Lets say for a typical 4th grade class at Hoover? What size would be best?



Derek	Mar 13 2006, 09:11 PM Post #6
Principal Posts: 137 Group: Members Member #269 Joined: January 5, 2006	I was just putting out a quote I read somewhere Jimid to see what others thought about this statement... it is NOT my opinion. -Derek



Derek	Mar 13 2006, 09:12 PM Post #7
Principal Posts: 137 Group: Members Member #269 Joined: January 5, 2006	Derek Mar 12 2006, 10:59 PM "The number of students per teacher in a classroom has been an issue in collective bargaining since the first contract negotiations began in Michigan more than 30 years ago. Unions maintain that smaller classes allow teachers to spend more time with each student, thus boosting educational achievement. Consequently, many of Michigan’s school districts have negotiated language that affects class size into their bargaining agreements. Negotiating smaller class sizes has proven to be a costly arrangement for school districts, especially those with growing student populations. Further, there is little good evidence suggesting that small classes predictably and systematically yield higher student achievement. Establishing class size requirements within a collective bargaining agreement restricts the school administration’s decision–making about the most effective use of staff, space and scarce financial resources." What do you think about the above quote???



NFarquharson	Mar 13 2006, 11:51 PM Post #8
Principal Posts: 4,311 Group: Members Member #103 Joined: November 9, 2005	Derek Mar 13 2006, 09:12 PM Derek Mar 12 2006, 10:59 PM "The number of students per teacher in a classroom has been an issue in collective bargaining since the first contract negotiations began in Michigan more than 30 years ago. Unions maintain that smaller classes allow teachers to spend more time with each student, thus boosting educational achievement. Consequently, many of Michigan’s school districts have negotiated language that affects class size into their bargaining agreements. Negotiating smaller class sizes has proven to be a costly arrangement for school districts, especially those with growing student populations. Further, there is little good evidence suggesting that small classes predictably and systematically yield higher student achievement. Establishing class size requirements within a collective bargaining agreement restricts the school administration’s decision–making about the most effective use of staff, space and scarce financial resources." What do you think about the above quote??? Here's my gut instinct without having read much at all about class size: If you have a typical classroom where there is a wide range of student abilities and learning styles, then having a small class size seems to me to be very important. That would give the teacher more time to target instruction to groups or individuals with varying abilities or talents. For example, in my daughter's first grade class, the teacher has kids seperated at different tables that group kids at various reading levels, such that the books and assignments can be more easily personalized to different needs. The small size gives her the ability to spend more time one on one with each student or group of students as needed. On the other hand, if you had a classroom that contained students with similar abilities and learning styles and a very good teacher, class size might become less important. I am not sure this is always easy to do or practical in many elementary schools, as a child might for example be reading above grade level but struggling at math. I am no expert, but these are my immediate thoughts.



Administrator	Mar 14 2006, 11:42 AM Post #9
Administrator Posts: 3,069 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: October 5, 2005	Tell me if I am wrong, but I was left with the impression that the major reasons we are doing this is to keep the class sizes low. In the 25-27 range. Thats what I took from the pre-vote meetings. Is that being backed off from now? Will they be larger?



bmom	Mar 14 2006, 12:54 PM Post #10
Principal Posts: 256 Group: Members Member #115 Joined: November 13, 2005	Jimid Mar 14 2006, 11:42 AM Tell me if I am wrong, but I was left with the impression that the major reasons we are doing this is to keep the class sizes low. In the 25-27 range. Thats what I took from the pre-vote meetings. Is that being backed off from now? Will they be larger? I remember hearing those numbers as well, but they also said in the same breath that the contract # is higher. I remember that they said "they would like" to keep those numbers 25-27 but no promises were made. So read between the lines and hope that this is one area they will attempt to save. My child technically is now in a class size of 25-27, but when they do their switches and combine with the split class, it is about 30-32 kids during math, science and social studies. Quite crowded in my opinion. I'm not sure what to expect.



annie	Mar 14 2006, 01:46 PM Post #11
Principal Posts: 40 Group: Members Member #170 Joined: November 30, 2005	My daughter is in a split class this year. She has 24 students in her class (with her "homeroom" teacher). We were told this was being done to keep the class sizes down. But this number is deceiving because when she switches for math, science and social studies in the morning, she has 32 kids in her class. She is in the fourth grade and half of her day is spent in classes with 32 kids! We were told at the beginning of the school year that her homeroom teacher would become an additional teacher to switch in the AM for the second half of the school year (which would mean there would be three teachers teaching the fourth-graders for switches, instead of just two). This did not happen. This has been very disappointing because we switched to LPS from St. Michael (after my daughter attended K and 1st) because we did not like the large class sizes there (among other reasons). At St. Michael, my daughter had 31 kids in her first-grade class (with a first-time, disorganized teacher). When we switched to LPS, she had 22 kids in both the 2nd and the 3rd grades. I have seen first-hand how small class sizes have benefitted my daughter. I hope that the class sizes at Riley do not get out of hand!!



whyus	Mar 14 2006, 01:50 PM Post #12
Principal Posts: 45 Group: Members Member #349 Joined: March 11, 2006	There should be no split classes and therefore no additional kids in the switch classes. One of the suppossed benefits of this plan is very few if any split classes. I believe they are still working on keeping classes sizes at the 25 - 27 class size



Mrs.M	Mar 14 2006, 01:51 PM Post #13
Principal Posts: 849 Group: Members Member #49 Joined: October 29, 2005	Remember the class size is an average THROUGHOUT the district. It used to be averaged by all lower el (1 - 3), not any specific/individual grade levels. Maybe things have changed?



Administrator	Mar 14 2006, 02:38 PM Post #14
Administrator Posts: 3,069 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: October 5, 2005	So, what someone may want to ask is "How many kids would be in my son/daughters 5th grade (Or whatever) class next year (at whatever school)according to the enrollment projections? (from the analyst that the district has been using for years and they say is so accurate)



insupport	Mar 14 2006, 06:32 PM Post #15
Principal Posts: 296 Group: Members Member #323 Joined: February 28, 2006	It seems to me that because there will be so many 5th and 6th grades in one building that the class sizes will be all around the same size. Hopefully what the average is now. The difference now is that in my childs school there are 22 kids in fourth grade classes (below the average size) and I believe someone just posted that at their school the classes were larger in 4th grade. (probably above the average size. This may also impact the k-4 to some degree also since there will be more of each grade at each school. Therefore next years classes may be slightly larger or smaller than some of us are used to but should come close to the average size.


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