| ACAT/MACAT; XYZ--This is for YOU | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 29 2005, 03:54 PM (4,409 Views) | |
| Iliveon-Levandownbytheriver | Jan 2 2006, 08:23 PM Post #61 |
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Principal
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I have to say...I dont fully agree with you here. Its not the childrens fault that their parents are economically challenged. Our kids will someday run this country..they need to learn that there are all walks of life. It doesnt matter to me if my kids are friends with others who cant afford the same toys we have or maybe dont have a mom and dad that live together. Why should we segregate the kids together in school just becuase they "economically challenged"? Just becuase they live in a trailer or apartment makes them no less of a human being than any of us! Just becuase at the moment they cant afford a nice house...does that makes a difference? How do you think that makes that child feel. Not good I can tell you that. I raise my children to treat everyone like they would want to be treated no matter what background they come from. The only hope we have to make this place a better world is to educate. Teach the children young...teach them compassion and understanding for one another..the world will truly be a better place. |
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| loyaltolivonia | Jan 2 2006, 08:36 PM Post #62 |
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Principal
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NFarq- I can't say I haven't thought about the same thing as you. It is a difficult subject to bring up. I agree with parts of what you say. On the other hand, I also agree with iliveonlevandownbytheriver (you need a shorter name!!! :lol: ) I would hope my kids can handle kids of any kind. Make friends and also know who to avoid if they're trouble. I need to think a bit longer on this
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| Iliveon-Levandownbytheriver | Jan 2 2006, 08:39 PM Post #63 |
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Principal
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Sorry...I will work on the name...
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| NFarquharson | Jan 2 2006, 08:46 PM Post #64 |
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Principal
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Just to clarify...of course I also raise my kids to treat everyone with dignity and respect and of course I know that kids don't choose their parents. That being said, parents do choose their kids' friends to some extent by the choices they make on where they live and where their kids go to school. As kids get older their peers have increasing influence on them. Some kids from families living in poverty may choose to be gang members, hang out at all hours on the streets, prositute themselves, carry weapons, steal things, etc. I'm sure most of us would not choose to live in an area with these problems and feel good about it because their kids is learning to get along with everyone. If we have the economic means, most of us choose to keep our kids away from all of that. No I am not saying we have this in Livonia or Westland...I am just making a point. It is important to me that my children learn that they are very lucky to have all that they do have. I want them to know that other children are not so fortunate. My son writes letters to a child we sponsor in South America that lives in a hut with no plumbing. He knows that we send money that helps his community build schools and medical facilities. It helps for him to learn that you have to work hard for what you get in life and that there are some people who, no matter how hard they work, can never have what we have. But I will not be moving into the mud hut next door to him any time soon. |
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| Cindi | Jan 2 2006, 08:57 PM Post #65 |
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Principal
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I agree with you........children should not be punished because their parents are poor. However, that doesn't change the fact that there are groups of children who's parents do not teach them, discipline them, leave them home alone....this is when trouble starts. Trouble meaning........drugs, violence, gangs, bullying etc. I grew up in the rental district of South Redford...considered the ghetto of South Redford...still good schools at the time. My mother disciplined us, we were taught right from wrong and we still hung out with kids from the wrong side of the tracks. I had 2 friends who had children at the age of 14 and 17,---my mother forbade me from hanging out with them. I had several friends who used drugs, my brother ended up in several re-habs and still fights the monkey. Poverty played a big part in all of this. Thanks to God and my mother...........I pushed myself...out of high school got a full time job...put myself through college while I worked, married, and had children--all simutaniously. So you see...I am no less human than anyone else, and it doesn't make a difference of how nice someone's house it. What does make the difference is if the parents of the children are home, paying attention to what their kids are doing, disciplining, guiding and setting examples for them. Unfortunately, poverty does bring along more problems. I wish we could change that....but we can't. We can make sure that all kids get the same opportunities for education...but if a parent isn't supporting and guiding the child, the opportunities slip by. There are going to be bad apples no matter where you live, and I too teach my children to respect others. Treat others how you like to be treated. I am concerned of the socio-economic's involved. Like I said earlier, it's my concern and opinion and I'm the one who has to deal with it. |
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| Want2move | Jan 2 2006, 09:11 PM Post #66 |
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Principal
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This is a subject that many people are unable or unwilling to have an objective conversation about. I brought up a similar topic in another thread, and had someone freak out on me. I also said nothing about race, religion, ethnic background or any other protected class, but merely brought up the behavioral problems that I heard Garfield has experienced, and mentioned the fact that there is a large number of Government assisted families that occupy some of the apartments in the Churchill and Johnson area that our kids will be going to school with next year. The reason I brought it up, was that I found out there were parents who exercised their "school of choice" option, and sent their kids to Johnson rather than Garfield for these reasons. That concerned me, and my hope was that there would have been some information posted to help me understand this situation better. I agree that your tax bracket does not dictate what kind of a person you are. I work for a municipality that has million dollar homes on one end, and the scummiest trailer parks I've ever seen at the other. My job allows me to interact with them all on a daily basis, and people can be good or bad regardless of money or status. loyaltolivonia: I'm not sure which Ed he is...I'll have my 9 year old help me on that tomorrow. Edforall inspired me to change my avatar to this one. I'm happy you picked up on that....I wasn't sure anyone would. |
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| Iliveon-Levandownbytheriver | Jan 2 2006, 09:34 PM Post #67 |
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Principal
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Dear NFarquharson, I hope that you did not take my comments as an attack....I truly did not intend them to be. I understand your point of view....I was just stating mine. There is valid arguments on both side of this issue...no one can deny that. I read all of the posts here...and truly respect your opinions. I grew up in Westland and then moved to South Redford when I had children. I just moved here to Livonia a few months ago. When I was a kid (in the early 80's) my parents made $8,000.00 a year for about 3 years. I lived in poverty. The only reason we had a home was becuase of the Dept of HUD. It was tough...I am not proud of it and neither are my parents. I just feel so sad for the kids who cannot help the situation they are in. I truly think that education is the way to teach kids good morals and compassion. I wish there was more of that being taught in school....but that is a whole other can of worms here. This is a very tough subject to touch upon...and like I said there are points..that i agree with you. You seem highly intelligent and I have no doubt that you raise your kids with nothing other than compassion and good morals. Its sad that there are other parents in this world...who do not do the same. |
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| livoniarecall | Jan 2 2006, 09:34 PM Post #68 |
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Principal
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Want2move: My 9 year old says that your avatar is ED, "the stupid one." |
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| Rose | Jan 2 2006, 09:34 PM Post #69 |
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Principal
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Don't be mad, but had to add my two cents. This subject can be touchy. I grew up part of my life in a "government assisted family" and now live in a 400,000+ home. My values have not changed, but my financial status has. I believe because I had it tough as a younger child I am able to see both sides now. I don't take anything for granted and thank my lucky stars every day. We all could be just one paycheck away from being homeless. I do not agree or disagree, I just think about it a little different. |
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| NFarquharson | Jan 2 2006, 09:42 PM Post #70 |
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Principal
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You should be proud of what you have accomplished in life. Most of us here should be most proud of raising our children. After all, when we are on our death beds, it won't matter if we had an expensive house or a fancy car. Our children ARE our legacy. I know this is a difficult topic. I'm glad everyone is approaching it in a positive way. |
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| Rose | Jan 2 2006, 09:42 PM Post #71 |
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Principal
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Because we all come from different backgrounds, I don't think anyone is wrong, it's just what we grew up with. |
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| Want2move | Jan 2 2006, 09:56 PM Post #72 |
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Principal
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Cool....thanks for the info.
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| anothermom | Jan 2 2006, 11:31 PM Post #73 |
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Principal
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Wow- this is sure a loaded topic. I have some questions though for the member who started this discussion about the socio-economic differences of families in Livonia and what that might mean with "mixing" of these groups at the 5-6 level. It has been awhile since I studied the maps that are part of the LI, but if I remember correctly, the LI has some families from the 5/Farmington area going to Johnson for 5-6, rather than staying at their existing K-6 elementary. (Thus, the mixing of social classes) However, even before the LI, children from Garfield, Johnson area would be going to school with those same children, if not at Frost, then definately when your children went to Churchill. Why is this a problem now? Do you see something inherently different about not 'mixing' children from different social-strata at the upper elementary level than at the Jr High/High School level? Is there something that happens in between 6th and 7th grade that makes this an issue now? Kudos to all of you regular posters who have spoken up with your personal stories of growing up in poverty. You have made the point that families who may be poor want the same thing for their children as those of us with resources want for ours- education and the opportunity to find happiness and succes in life. Again, to the primary poster of this topic (sorry- I have not figured out that quote thing to have moved your comment over here), I think your children have an incredible opportunity ahead of them- to begin to spend time in a school community that more closely represents the world beyond Northwest or Central Livonia. (I understand there is some sensitivity about spell- checking on this site but I can't figure out how to do that so please cut me some slack.) |
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| NFarquharson | Jan 3 2006, 12:09 AM Post #74 |
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Principal
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I live in the area the attends Adams and the kids who go there are all from the square mile between Schoolcraft and 5 Mile, Middlebelt and Inkster. There are only single family houses, primarily 1950's brick ranches in the neighborhood. There are no apartment complexes (other than a senior housing complex) and no trailer parks. Very few kids qualify for free lunches in this neighborhood, which indicates that few are below the federal poverty level. That being said...we are by no means an affluent area...more working class. This is the neighborhood I chose to live in. There are schools, primarily in the southern portion of Livonia and in Westland, where there is a greater mix of socio-economic backgrounds and a higher number of students who come from low income homes. What is new is that kids from farther north in Livonia will now be bussed south to Cooper and Johnson in these new mega 5/6 schools. You are correct when you say the these kids would have eventually ended up in middle school or high school together. My own kids, as an example, would have gone to Riley for middle school and then to Franklin for high school, thus meeting up with the kids from the lower income areas primarily in high school. Under the LI, they will go from Adams to Roosevelt to Cooper to Emerson to Franklin. Cooper and Emerson are both Title I schools. I guess my concern is that we are speaking of much younger children. You said, "I think your children have an incredible opportunity ahead of them- to begin to spend time in a school community that more closely represents the world beyond Northwest or Central Livonia." I really do understand that they cannot be sheltered forever and will need to become more worldly and street smart at some point, but this young? My kids will need to deal with a whole host of issues eventually, but I still monitor what they watch on TV, in movies and what they read. Do they really need to see all of the poverty and crime in the world on a daily basis? I don't think so at this point...I don't even watch the news while my kids are in the room because I want them to remain innocent and naive for as long as possible. They don't need to hear about each and every tragedy. I will introduce topics as I see appropriate as they get older and allow them more freedom as they become more responsible, but right now I think there is value in having them in our neighborhood playing with kids from families I know and trust. I guess I just don't see how mixing all of these young kids together with their entire graduating class is a good idea. I know this is a sensitive topic, but I am pretty sure it is something that many of us are thinking about. I just wanted to put it out on the table for discussion. Everyone has made some very good points and the discussion has been civil. |
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| Hull_alumni | Jan 3 2006, 12:35 AM Post #75 |
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Principal
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This topic and threads truly seems unrelated to ACAT and Macat. So here goes..with what ideas are being generated A more equitable division in the district (other than the one created by the demo team) could have been achieved with boundary divisions running north and south. Imagine the district divided into triads, but three equal ones 1) Eckles/Haggerty on the west boundary to two miles east to Ellen/Wayne - with 8 mile rd on the north side and Warren rd on the south side boundary 2) Ellen/Wayne on the west boundary to two miles east to Merriman - again with 8 Mile rd on the north and Cowan rd/Edward Hynes on the south side boundary 3) Merriman on the west boundary to two miles east to Inkster and again Clarenceville boundary on the north side to Warren rd. on the south side boundary. There is a high school, middle school, and numerous elementary schools in each of these triads. I will not accept the idea of a 5/6 upper elementary school. That terminology seems like something invented to appease concerned parents. (It's not working in this house, hate to dissapoint the demo team!) I would think there then would be a blend of all income and academic levels - if this was the intent of the demo committee. I wish they would have been upfront and honest to the entire community to begin with. I believe the hole has been dug so deep, the 40 of them can't get out. |
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3:38 AM Jul 11