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Start our own Charter School.
Topic Started: Dec 22 2005, 09:58 AM (5,874 Views)
xyz-321
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Grant
Dec 22 2005, 05:09 PM
xyz-321
Dec 22 2005, 04:59 PM
I honestly do not see how the Legacy Initiative will hurt all of your children so much. Please, leave me a list of reasons to comment upon.

Apparently you do not read the posts here...but im sure you will now get tons of them to respond to. Also we will post our concerns but you have to do the same...please tell me the benefits of the Legacy initiative for my children.

Yes I do read the posts, however, it would be easier to "strike down" your arugments if I had a simple list. I can't argue against every point made in this forum as there are too many (although very few seem worthy of mention).

In LPS something had to be done. Money needs to come from somewhere... even if it is only .8% of the districts budget. $1.5 - 2.1 million can go a long way, even in a district the size of LPS. With the Legacy Initiative more services can be provided to more students while still saving money in the process.
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NFarquharson
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xyz-321
Dec 22 2005, 05:16 PM
NFarquharson
Dec 22 2005, 05:07 PM
Check out the reasons and the research that is behind it at=http://www.citizensforlivoniasfuture.com

All the studies you have listed (I am not including the spreadsheets) are general studies. These do not focus on the LPS district. LPS is a unique situation. What may work in a majority of situations may not be perfect for LPS. I have not seen the "Citizens for Livonia's Future" do the type of in depth research on only the LPS district that the Demographics Committee did.

So are you saying that the research that has been published by experts in the field of education is not relevant to Livonia...the very same research that was studied by the members of the demographics committee??? Are you telling us that the research that indicates that smaller schools with larger grade-spans acheive better academic results/outcomes somehow does not apply in Livonia? Are our children somehow immune to the negative impact of very large school size and multiple transitions? Perhaps the opinion and experience of one middle school principle is more telling than this reserach, as the demographics committee would have us believe. Help my understand that logic.
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Elisa
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The studies listed are valid studies. I don't know how much you understand about research design but a key point is that well designed research has what we call "external validity" which simply means it can be generalized to other situations. Meaning, we do not have to have a study take place right here in Livonia for research to apply to our district. We CAN take what has been learned from well designed, peer-reviewed studies across the country. This is a common practice. The committee tried to make the same argument, but anyone that knows research knows that it is not a valid argument. These studies have been used across the country by other districts to justify keeping wider grade spans, even converting to k-8's. As parents, we looked at the benchmark studies in the areas of grade span configuration and small school research. If you need a study that is closer to home, look at the study out of Wayne State by S. Wren, she used MI> students and their MEAP scores. The conclusion: school to school transitions hurt student achievement. Additionally, I personally had contact with the three leading researchers and have their e-mail comments. The committee looked at that same research, they just didn't like the conclusions and the impact it would have on their plan. In fact most of the research we looked at here were some of the same that the committee listed in their research citations. When I researched the subject, I stayed tried to stay away from articles with educators opinions or educational writers perspectives. I tried to remain focused on scholarly research. I can't say they same for the committee. Many of their research citations were simply articles based on conjecture/opinion. And I also beg to differ, LPS is NOT a unique situation. Over the past 8 weeks, many here have poured over the documents of other districts right here in Michigan and across the country that were going through or had gone through reconfigurations. I think that you have a lot of catching up to do...go back and read the "educational research" thread on this forum. Then let us know what you think.
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NFarquharson
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Elisa
Dec 22 2005, 05:41 PM
The studies listed are valid studies. I don't know how much you understand about research design but a key point is that well designed research has what we call "external validity" which simply means it can be generalized to other situations. Meaning, we do not have to have a study take place right here in Livonia for research to apply to our district. We CAN take what has been learned from well designed, peer-reviewed studies across the country. This is a common practice. The committee tried to make the same argument, but anyone that knows research knows that it is not a valid argument. These studies have been used across the country by other districts to justify keeping wider grade spans, even converting to k-8's. As parents, we looked at the benchmark studies in the areas of grade span configuration and small school research. If you need a study that is closer to home, look at the study out of Wayne State by S. Wren, she used MI> students and their MEAP scores. The conclusion: school to school transitions hurt student achievement. Additionally, I personally had contact with the three leading researchers and have their e-mail comments. The committee looked at that same research, they just didn't like the conclusions and the impact it would have on their plan. In fact most of the research we looked at here were some of the same that the committee listed in their research citations. When I researched the subject, I stayed tried to stay away from articles with educators opinions or educational writers perspectives. I tried to remain focused on scholarly research. I can't say they same for the committee. Many of their research citations were simply articles based on conjecture/opinion. And I also beg to differ, LPS is NOT a unique situation. Over the past 8 weeks, many here have poured over the documents of other districts right here in Michigan and across the country that were going through or had gone through reconfigurations. I think that you have a lot of catching up to do...go back and read the "educational research" thread on this forum. Then let us know what you think.

Much more eloquently worded. What she said...
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xyz-321
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You all also fail to consider the fact that no schooling changes or district restructuring have as much affect on your student's achievement as you as a parent have. Also, despite many of the documents having been published by experts, every situation is unique. That includes LPS.
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Cindi
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xyz-321--I'm confused. Did you read the list of research that the demographics board provided? How does their research apply to LPS?

REFERENCES REVIEWED AND DISCUSSED BY THE RESEARCH COMMITTEE (DEMOGRAPHICS BOARD FOR LIVONIA PUBLIC SCHOOLS)

*West Bloomfield schools and their International Baccalaureate Cirriculmn they have in place.

*School start times-a report by Univ of Minnisota - talks about high schoolers, not K-6

*All work/Little Play in Kindergarten - no references to grade configurations or LPS

*K-8 Bunch & Should Your District switch to K-8 configuration?--I don't think anyone on the Demo Board even read this!

*School District Rethinks Late Start - Northville (Det News article) considering a later start time for their high school students.

*Is Middle School Bad for Kids? - Jaanna Juvonen, UCLA psychologist stated that 11 & 12 yrs olds are already dealing with so many changes that it makes little sense to pile on a change in schools. 75% of this article advocates for K-8.

*Grade Span - Schools with very narrow grade spans experience frequent student turnover, which can influence the schools identity and sense of community. Narrow grade spans also impose's stress on students due to frequent school transistions.

*Community Relations: Working with the public on Big Decisions--You don't want your dialogue with the community to be dominated by a small number of opinionated people. Successful citizen involvement efforts make an impact by involving large numbers--up to 100 in a neighborhood and up to 1000 in a city.

*Surviving Closing and Consolidations--The Floyd & Hancock County School system went above and beyond the required public meetings.....Credible, understandable data comes first, not just in selling the final decision. This district produced brochures with the relevant data and mailed them to every household in their community at the start of the process.

This is just a sample of the research the Demographics Board did. If our research is "general studies" what do you call the research that the Demo Board provided? Their research has newspaper articles...some of the studies they provided are over 10 years old, some of the studies are the same studies we referenced--I don't think they read the research. Studies guide you in the right direction, studies are done at all levels of education, government, medicine etc. Where did the Demographics committee give in depth research, I'd like to read it.
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xyz-321
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Quote:
 
xyz-321--I'm confused. Did you read the list of research that the demographics board provided? How does their research apply to LPS?


If you look at the figures, maps, and other data on the November 14 presentation, there is an awful lot of research that pertains to the district.
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Grant
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xyz-321
Dec 22 2005, 05:34 PM
Grant
Dec 22 2005, 05:09 PM
xyz-321
Dec 22 2005, 04:59 PM
I honestly do not see how the Legacy Initiative will hurt all of your children so much. Please, leave me a list of reasons to comment upon.

Apparently you do not read the posts here...but im sure you will now get tons of them to respond to. Also we will post our concerns but you have to do the same...please tell me the benefits of the Legacy initiative for my children.

Yes I do read the posts, however, it would be easier to "strike down" your arugments if I had a simple list. I can't argue against every point made in this forum as there are too many (although very few seem worthy of mention).

In LPS something had to be done. Money needs to come from somewhere... even if it is only .8% of the districts budget. $1.5 - 2.1 million can go a long way, even in a district the size of LPS. With the Legacy Initiative more services can be provided to more students while still saving money in the process.

Once again people......they cannot list any pros to the plan!

Is everyone getting the picture here? Another supporter who cannot tell me the benefits for my daughter...they just want to discount our concerns.

Theres a pattern here. Tell me some benefits PLEASE!!!!
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Grant
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Oh.....I forgot to the say....And please dont say its money
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xyz-321
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Grant
Dec 22 2005, 05:59 PM
xyz-321
Dec 22 2005, 05:34 PM
Grant
Dec 22 2005, 05:09 PM
xyz-321
Dec 22 2005, 04:59 PM
I honestly do not see how the Legacy Initiative will hurt all of your children so much. Please, leave me a list of reasons to comment upon.

Apparently you do not read the posts here...but im sure you will now get tons of them to respond to. Also we will post our concerns but you have to do the same...please tell me the benefits of the Legacy initiative for my children.

Yes I do read the posts, however, it would be easier to "strike down" your arugments if I had a simple list. I can't argue against every point made in this forum as there are too many (although very few seem worthy of mention).

In LPS something had to be done. Money needs to come from somewhere... even if it is only .8% of the districts budget. $1.5 - 2.1 million can go a long way, even in a district the size of LPS. With the Legacy Initiative more services can be provided to more students while still saving money in the process.

Once again people......they cannot list any pros to the plan!

Is everyone getting the picture here? Another supporter who cannot tell me the benefits for my daughter...they just want to discount our concerns.

Theres a pattern here. Tell me some benefits PLEASE!!!!

And you can't seem to list any significant, considerable negatives.
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Grant
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Avoiding the subject huh?
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xyz-321
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Grant
Dec 22 2005, 06:00 PM
Oh.....I forgot to the say....And please dont say its money

Why not say it is money? Are you so ignorant that you cannot see that this country runs on dollars and cents, including LPS?
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xyz-321
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Grant
Dec 22 2005, 06:02 PM
Avoiding the subject huh?

xyz-321
 
In LPS something had to be done. Money needs to come from somewhere... even if it is only .8% of the districts budget. $1.5 - 2.1 million can go a long way, even in a district the size of LPS. With the Legacy Initiative more services can be provided to more students while still saving money in the process.


I did not avoid the subject.

You, Grant, have yet to give me my list of negatives. I would think you are the one avoiding the original question!
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Rose
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..
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xyz-321
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Rose
Dec 22 2005, 06:07 PM
Thanks for joining us so late. Go back, read the posts, read the research. Did you attend any of the BOE meetings or at least watch them on cable? Please, don't tell me, is this Livonia 2252 back again, reincarnated?

No I am not Livonia 2252. I "joined you" this late because I think the Legacy Initiative is this districts best plan to fixing problems created by budget cuts and declining enrollment.
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