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Start our own Charter School.
Topic Started: Dec 22 2005, 09:58 AM (5,867 Views)
amomof2
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Principal
xyz-321 - How are you benefitting from this LI?
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fyi
Principal
xyz-321
Dec 22 2005, 08:05 PM
klezy99
Dec 22 2005, 07:55 PM
xyz-321
Dec 22 2005, 06:01 PM
Grant
Dec 22 2005, 05:59 PM
xyz-321
Dec 22 2005, 05:34 PM
Grant
Dec 22 2005, 05:09 PM
xyz-321
Dec 22 2005, 04:59 PM
I honestly do not see how the Legacy Initiative will hurt all of your children so much. Please, leave me a list of reasons to comment upon.

Apparently you do not read the posts here...but im sure you will now get tons of them to respond to. Also we will post our concerns but you have to do the same...please tell me the benefits of the Legacy initiative for my children.

Yes I do read the posts, however, it would be easier to "strike down" your arugments if I had a simple list. I can't argue against every point made in this forum as there are too many (although very few seem worthy of mention).

In LPS something had to be done. Money needs to come from somewhere... even if it is only .8% of the districts budget. $1.5 - 2.1 million can go a long way, even in a district the size of LPS. With the Legacy Initiative more services can be provided to more students while still saving money in the process.

Once again people......they cannot list any pros to the plan!

Is everyone getting the picture here? Another supporter who cannot tell me the benefits for my daughter...they just want to discount our concerns.

Theres a pattern here. Tell me some benefits PLEASE!!!!

And you can't seem to list any significant, considerable negatives.

to xyz-321 or whatever! You obviously have no children involved in this do you? How about having your kid shoved thru very crowded halls at the new 5/6 with 900+ students how about a 5-mile bus drive for your child, or how about walking into a huge lunch room to look up and see nobody you know!!! You have no idea what this sucky proposal has done,,I will be home schooling

You are right, I don't have any kids. That is because I am a student in LPS. You talk of all these negatives but I don't see how they will have a significant impact on myself or any other students in the LPS district. Sure, some will be moved and others will have to make new friends, but few students will be horribly affected.

Also, regarding the bus ride, I have been through ACAT and MACAT and had those 'terrible' bus rides. They are not that bad. Lastly, I look up in my schools lunchroom and see all these people I don't know and it is great. I know I have an opportunity to make new friends and meet new people.

The average child is probably not equipped with the coping mechanisms that you seem to have. You are much older. They are expecting this of 10 and 11 year old
children.
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fyi
Principal
BOE, do you see how many "hits" this topic has received in a short period of time.
I think more people disagree with your LI than you think.
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xyz-321
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fyi
 
The average child is probably not equipped with the coping mechanisms that you seem to have. You are much older. They are expecting this of 10 and 11 year old
children.

I was riding 45 minutes to and from school when I was four years old and going to Webster. Expecting ten to eleven year olds to wait 45 minutes or so until they get home is not that much. The coping mechanisms of people in ACAT or MACAT are no different than those of other students. On another note, the busses which serve ACAT and MACAT students are the same which serve many of Livonia's private schools. Many of those students have the same lengthy bus rides as other students. However, the students of the private schools are not a special accedemically talented group, but the cope with the rides just fine.

Want2move
 
Just a couple of quick points.
As far as your opinions xyz-321, you are entitled to them and we welcome any additional information (so far, I've seen none).

Also remember that the majority of people here have been through transitions to many schools over the years, and actually remember what school and the teenage years were like. You'll have to forgive us if we don't accept your wisdom as gospel. Remember....some of these people have kids you go to school with.

Most of the people here have children, jobs, own homes, drive vehicles they own, and have worked many years to achieve what we have. Unfortunately, your lack of life experience gives you a rather narrow point of view.

What you have not really mentioned, and what bothers me the most here, is the misrepresentation of the people by elected officials. This is something that you and your generation should be very disturbed about. If your suggesting "we the people" just lay down and accept the Legacy Initiative "because they said so", then maybe you should have paid more attention to History and Government(assuming it was even offered to you yet), than to Computer Science. Life isn't black or white, or 1's and 0's.

As far as the money issue you seem to think is so important, why not adopt one of the other two plans that saved the same or more money? They didn't include all the transitional problems, yet were not even considered for some reason. Hmmm....

You are obviously a very smart person, and it's very encouraging to see you get involved. Age and experience are what you lack at this point. Please, post all the wonderful and great things about the plan that I keep hearing the Board members all exited about. Perhaps you've figured out what they are...we have not.

Want2move, I suggest you don't use age as a measure of experience or to determine one's ability to judge a situation. There are many people in their 40s or 50s who make poor decisions and lack good judgement. Regarding as to why the other plans were not selected, I think you should read the presentation the Demographics Committee gave. It gives a very clear reason as to why the plan was chosen. However, should you not be able to pick up the reasons, I know some excellent teachers who should be able to help you. Anyway, I think you would still be here whining about the Legacy Initiative should any of the other plans be chosen.
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Administrator
Administrator
It all makes no difference. The recall is obviously going to work.
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Want2move
Principal
XYZ-321,
Believe me, I know all too well about the ability of humans of any age to make poor decisions, my job is mostly based on this sad fact. I’m sorry if you are confused about my statements that simply included your lack of life experience in adult or parental matters.

I have heard all of the “pros” as well as the cons to this proposal. The “pros” at this point are theoretical based upon the studies all here have seen. There is much data to also negates these pros and suggests this is the wrong way to go. At this point I’m not sure if this configuration is the best thing since sliced bread, or the next plague to the School system here. The fact the BOE rammed this proposal through so quickly without any REAL input from stakeholders is of great concern. The Demographics committee did not represent we the parents on this matter. It instead represented many people in the LPS system that stand to benefit from this option.

Whine? Sorry, that’s what my kids do. My second biggest problem with the proposal was the introduction of a fourth tier to the school day. Both of the other proposals retained the current three tier system, and we were willing to accept either of these options. We were very disappointed when NEITHER of these options were even considered.

As Jimid said, this is all useless and amusing banter at this point.
Maybe, unlike the BOE, you can post something that is not antagonistic, and actually includes some real insight to the merits of this proposal. We are listening.
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mbossio
Principal
To XYZ-321:

I take exception to your comment that the coping mechanisms of people in ACAT or MACAT are no different than those of other students. That might be true of children your current age, but if may not be true of the younger students, particularly the 9-11 year olds that will be going in to the 5/6 schools. When parents test their childrens to see if they can attend Webster, and they find that their reading skills at 5 years old are comparable to a 19 year old, or their logic and reasoning skills are that of a 25 year old, there IS A difference! I think it's great that you are fortunate that you had the maturity to handle you bus ride at such a young age, but try not to make such generalizations that assume since you could handle it that certainly everyone else can. Also, remember that statistically bullying is at its peak around the 5th and 6th grade. I do remember a few individuals tormenting the crap out of me during that time period of my life and couldn't wait until I got home from school. That bus ride was pure hell, and unfortunately then I was too introverted to get help from people, including my parents. And THAT was a much shorter bus ride. Not every child has the personality to speak out when bad things are happening, and what many of us parents are trying to do is to minimize the opportunities where bad things can happen.
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Tyler_Parent
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Principal
Look what anonymity has done to your manners. Think how it will embolden those cools kids when they get to these new super-sized middle schools. It won't be safe for the "Java programmers" any longer. Doesn't that concern you, xyz?
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c3hull
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Principal
xyz-321,
You may be a bright child, but you cannot possibly think like a parent and understand our concerns. Do you have a pet you deeply care about? If so, you’re still miles away. An example for you; talk to a gifted 8 year old at Webster, explain High School issues such as peer pressure and dating. Would you honestly feel like the child fully understood you? I don't think so. You were 8 years old not too long ago. Enough said about your words of wisdom!
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c3hull
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Principal

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05357/627019.stm

Charter school wins suit vs. McKeesport district

Friday, December 23, 2005
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Commonwealth Court has sided with Propel Charter Schools against McKeesport Area School District, ordering the district to grant the group a charter.

Last year, the district appealed a Pennsylvania Charter School Appeal Board's order to award South Side-based Propel, a nonprofit organization that has established several charter schools in the Pittsburgh area, the right to open an elementary school in downtown McKeesport. Propel-McKeesport, which has about 180 students in kindergarten through fourth grade, opened in August during the appeal process.

Commonwealth Court Tuesday issued a ruling supporting the charter school's mandate.

Charter schools are public schools run by independent boards. Students do not pay tuition, but the students' home school districts must pay a fee set by the state
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xyz-321
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Principal
Mbossio, from my experience, I would say that on average students in ACAT or MACAT are of a maturity and intellectual level of students one year ahead of them. Students who are six in ACAT have 'very long' bus rides daily. These six year old students have a maturity of children around the age of seven (of course this would vary). These students are less mature than the "9-11 year olds" and have no difficulty.
Students in the TMI, Trainable Mentally Impared, program take bus rides from cities such as Garden City, Inkster, and Redford to go to Webster! I think we can all agree that mentally impaired children do not have the maturity levels of any students in Livonia's regular programs. The majority of those students cope with the conditions and still go to school! Meanwhile you criticize long bus rides for your students. The majority of you have nothing to complain about regarding the changing bus conditions.
Regarding bullying, your claim that bullying is most common in between fifth and sixth grades is wrong. A report released by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development claims it happens mostly between sixth and eighth grades. You can read that report here. I suggest you do your research before posting because you obviously did not research. Pulling data out of the air doesn't make you seem credible and really makes people think less of your opinions. I am sorry to hear that your experiences when you were a student were poor. My solution to prevent bullying on my bus was to simply not associate with the kids who I thought were most likely to bully me and to sit as close to the front of the bus as possible. That worked for me as I never had a problem with bullies. I would also suggest knowing the bus driver. That is very helpful.

Tyler_parent, you shouldn't be talking about manners. Let's take the following quotes.
Tyler_Parent
 
You sound angry. Is it because the cool kids pick on you?
Tyler_Parent
 
Ever wonder why you don't have any friends?
I know teenagers with better manners than that. Come on, you're supposed to be setting an example for kids!

C3hull, I honstly don't think any child eight years of age can understand dating. The understanding of those topics comes with sexual and emotional maturity (which obviously don't relate to the Legacy Initiative), not educational and intellectual maturity. However, I think that there are some eight year olds at Webster who I could explain peer pressure too and think they understood.
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Crafty
Kindergarten
[ * ]
xyz-321, good for you! After reading your posts, I find you mature and well-informed; you certainly have a right to your opinion. Thank you for expressing it. I find it humorous that people suspect you're a board member -- it just shows your maturity.

I also find it humorous that your posts are better spelled and punctuated than the others. Kudos to LPS for giving you that education!!!

I posted long ago on this site, but stopped because I found the posts monotonous and absorbed. I still check the site, now and then, however, and found your string of conversation the best I've read in a while. Isn't it sad that the members here are so one-sided that they refuse to see any part of opposing argument? They have made their mind to oppose the plan, so that's what they'll do. (Tunnel vision.) You're right; parents make the biggest difference in children's education. This plan can work... it has been decided and we most move forward and positively from here.

I found the way you retorted the arguments of the other members most mature. Come on... "Don't you have someone to IM?" That poster obviously doesn't have respect for students... Sad.

A quote by F. Scott Fitzgerald: "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless yet be determined to make them otherwise."

It should remind us that in these times of contention, while heatedly debating other's opposing viewpoints, we should maintain dignity and respect for that viewpoint and the person expressing it.
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Administrator
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Crafty
Dec 23 2005, 07:32 PM


It should remind us that in these times of contention, while heatedly debating other's opposing viewpoints, we should maintain dignity and respect for that viewpoint and the person expressing it.

I agree Crafty. It's too bad that I feel backed into a corner by the timing of the decision. Many others feel the same way, and are frustrated. We would not be here if we were truly givin more input. "Public sentiment is everything. With public sentiment, nothing can fail; without it nothing can succeed." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Lincoln-Douglas debate at Ottawa" (August 21, 1858)
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Cindi
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Quote:
 
Mbossio, from my experience, I would say that on average students in ACAT or MACAT are of a maturity and intellectual level of students one year ahead of them. Students who are six in ACAT have 'very long' bus rides daily.


Hey there xyz-321--You still never answered me on how many students of LPS participate in the ACAT, MACAT, CAPA AND MSC Programs??? Did you find your answer yet? Indeed.......I'm sure it is the majority of the LPS population...eh?
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c3hull
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xyz-123, you posted above:
C3hull, I honstly don't think any child eight years of age can understand dating. The understanding of those topics comes with sexual and emotional maturity (which obviously don't relate to the Legacy Initiative), not educational and intellectual maturity.

Well, I don't think any child in High School can understand topics to the same extent as a parent. If you become a parent one day, believe me, you will not look to children in High School to give you guidence!

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