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Educational Research; Facts and Research
Topic Started: Oct 30 2005, 05:54 PM (5,777 Views)
Mr.C
3rd Grade
Interesting read at: http://www.geocities.com/eingedi.geo/6-8_msalbatross.html

Especially this paragraph:

Quote:
 
Although some may contend that the above savings are lost because a District will be spending more on transportation costs because an entire, additional Grade will be on the road, the effective number of those needing to go on the road will, if anything, continue to rise as the effective available utilization space for existing (and even future) Elementary campuses continues to drop so as to accommodate the pre-K through 2 (and possibly younger) kids. Some may furthermore contend that by having another level of change (ie, an entire new "break" and campus transition to make) is detrimental to a kid’s social and educational development. It’s my contention that kids are much more resilient than the psychobabble spewing from aging Baby Boomers (and some of their older peers) in some quarters of the educational establishment gives them credit for. I can speak from personal experience that the longest I stayed at any one campus in grades K-8 was two years. Sure, I was a military brat, but, in the mobile society that we are in today, I would venture to guess that two years is just about the norm, and possibly the exception (ie, an average kid’s stay at any K-8 campus probably being shorter). In other words, this is a bogus argument presented primarily by those in some quarters of the educational establishment that don’t like change, at least change that they neither conceive, propose nor carry out themselves. Reality, nevertheless, has a way of asserting its own authority, as the Grade 5-6 Junior Middle School concept is coming, and it’s coming here to stay.
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Tyler_Parent
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Not very interesting, or credible. Why read any further than "It’s my contention that kids are much more resilient than the psychobabble spewing...."
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Mr.C
3rd Grade
Look, the main issue here isn't even about the children unfortunately, it's about money and about school capacity (which goes back to money eventually). The possible configurations, in use today are:

K-2,3-4,5-6,7-8,9-12 - This is unfeasbile due to needing too many buildings, none of which would be used to capacity. Also, the transition police wouldn't allow it.

K-4,5-8,9-12 - Very good plan, almost ideal, except there isn't enough room for 5-8 schools, as well as 8th graders and 5th graders are completely different animals and shouldn't be sharing a school, it's bad enough between 7th and 8th graders!

K-4,5-6,7-8,9-12 - Fits perfectly into the schools at hand, allowing the closure of multiple schools. Kids are placed with other kids in the same developmental age groups as themselves, making the transitions easier to deal with. There are extra transitions nonetheless, however, which can be viewed negatively.

K-6,7-8,9-12 - Very popular over the last 30 years (400% increase) however now is experiencing a decrease due to nationwide demographics, as well as difficulty in 6th graders having the need to be secluded, away from the 8th graders. The new view is that it is great for business, but developmentally inappropriate at the middle school level.

K-8,9-12 - Quite common in private schools, due primarily to building size. Enrollment can be controlled making this feasible for private schools. Additional buildings would need to be constructed in Livonia to make this possible, and residents are in no mood for a 100 million dollar bond issue.

K-6,7-9,10-12 - This is the very archaic junior high school plan. Although developmentally appropriate moreso than many other plans, other issues make it infeasible. 9th graders are eligible for HS sports, which could cause problems, as well as school size issues.

So, out of these 6 plans immediately K-2,3-4,5-6,7-8,9-12; k-8,9-12; k-6,7-9,10-12 can be thrown out the window for obvious reasons.

This leaves the big 4:
K-6,7-8
K-4,5-6,7-8
K-5,6-8
K-4,5-8

We will elimiate K-6,7-8, as this is the whole reason this is being done in the first place - to get rid of it.

Down to 3:
K-4,5-6,7-8
K-5,6-8
K-4,5-8

Unfortunately new schools can't be built, and there are no buildings that can accomodate grades 5-8, not to mention the developmental issues.

Leaving us with 2 plans.
K-5,6-8 and K-4,5-6,7-8

K-5 gets 1 point for 1 less transition
K-4 gets 1 point for being more developmentally appropriate
K-4 gets 1 point for the continuity between 5th grade and graduation
K-5 gets 1 point for better bussing, start times, etc.

It is now tied 2-2, making it a tossup in my mind, based on my views, based on my experiences and future plans. This will go differently for different people, but please accept the fact that for some people this plan is as good as anything.

So please, stop with your arroance thinking that there is no possible way anyone could approve of this plan. It works for some, and doesn't for others. I am sorry that for the handful of people being vocal this is a horrible plan, but for many others like myself there isn't enough evidence to justify hating it. I am done posting here though, contrarian viewpoints are not wanted here, nor is sarcasm,which is too much a part of me to let go! Good luck with everything!
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mo32red
4th Grade
Interested
You make a lot of good points. Now that the board has spoken, I for one, am going to make the best of the situation and keep a positive attitude in front of my children!!!!! I don't want to get too deep in thought but, Life is too short and I am healthy, my kids are healthy, and a great deal of people I met through Hull are healthy too!!!!!! If we all get together, honestly, I think we can make it work!!!!!!


Mo
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MOMOFTHREE
Principal
Mo,

How fortunate for you your children are not being bussed across the street from a toxic dump. I was keeping an open mind too until I heard their was cause for health concerns.
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mo32red
4th Grade
Mom Of Three,

All I was saying is that being healthy is a good thing!!!!! I have a great husband, family, and kids, and a great deal of new friends!!!! You sound sarcastic in your reply, but that is freedom of speech I guesss!!! You didn't ask to hear this, but 2 years ago in January, at the age of 36, I had a stroke and 2 open heart surgery's in a week!!! I for one, am thankful to be here and thankful that I can take care of my children!!!! This might not seem like a big deal to you, but it was for me and it changed my prospective on life in general. Have a great holiday and enjoy the important things in life, you never know what can happen tomorrow!!!!!

Mo
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Tyler_Parent
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Forum Rules (listed at the top of this screen)
... If you post something as a fact, please add a link to your source, or where you found your source material. :blink:
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Tyler_Parent
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Jimid
Dec 9 2005, 04:17 PM
Interested
Dec 9 2005, 02:08 PM
I am done posting here though, contrarian viewpoints are not wanted here, nor is sarcasm,which is too much a part of me to let go!  Good luck with everything!

Thank you...Interested...or should I say Mr.C. But you said that before! Mr.C, you love us and can't get enough, just admit it!!

:o Does this mean that the "good luck with everything" comment was sarcasm, too? What a shame, I'll actually miss him. Thought we were starting to bond.
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c3hull
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Interested, I'm sorry but you are incorrect in many of your statements and are misinformed a bit. Please go to Educational research on this website and on Citizensforlivoniasfuture.com

You will find enough information to read for several hours...after you have read more than 1 or 2 articles dealing with the issues at hand, please post again!
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Mom2Three
6th Grade
Mr.C,Dec 9 2005
02:08 PM


We will elimiate K-6,7-8, as this is the whole reason this is being done in the first place - to get rid of it.

Mr. C
One of my major concerns is why the decision is being made to get rid of the K-6, 7-8 configuration???
This configuration will save approximately the same amount of money as the K-4 configuration without the whole LPS making this drastic change. Your thoughts ???
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Deleted User
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Mr.C
Dec 9 2005, 02:08 PM
Look, the main issue here isn't even about the children unfortunately, it's about money and about school capacity (which goes back to money eventually). The possible configurations, in use today are:


Unfortunately, Mr.C the board did nothing to solve the real problem. Adding even one more dollar to the operating budget will kill any proposal in 4 years. They should have started this whole thing by privatizing many school services. But that would entail making real financial change. And maybe some freinds might lose their jobs. As Mr. Lessard pointed out at the unvailing, Michigan is in real crisis and many companies are cutting jobs. Well, he's right. So why are we adding jobs? I haven't heard of one person being cut. Thats not the case for most of us. Who does this proposal really benefit.
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Rose
Principal
In Response to Mo,
Thank goodness you are okay. I work with dying people all the time and know how precious life is. You are right, we should be happy for all the good things we have but we should still not sit back and let LPS shove something down our throats. I hope the best for you in the future and may you and your family have a happy and healthy holiday.
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mo32red
4th Grade
Rose,

Thank you for your response, I am very passionate about what is best for my children as we all are. I don't want to say that it took a life changing event, but it didn't hurt. I probably wouldn't be as happy if I had different results, but if you walked by me on the street today, you wouldn't notice anything happened!!!! I do remember when it hurt to cough, sneeze, and laugh, so pretty much I try not to take anything for granted!!!!! I hope you and your family have a wonderful Christmas and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!

Sincerely,
MO
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grantmom
Principal
mo32red
Dec 9 2005, 03:43 PM
Interested
You make a lot of good points. Now that the board has spoken, I for one, am going to make the best of the situation and keep a positive attitude in front of my children!!!!! I don't want to get too deep in thought but, Life is too short and I am healthy, my kids are healthy, and a great deal of people I met through Hull are healthy too!!!!!! If we all get together, honestly, I think we can make it work!!!!!!


Mo

Sorry to hear of your health problems. Do you have a child who will attend Cooper? I do. I truly wish I could look at it from your point of view but I need to think about my children and any possible health issues that could arise for them by going to Cooper. How could I forgive myself if I didn't fight for what I believe is a bad choice by LPS and my children developed serious issues by attending a school that is questionable at best. Just my two cents.
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Livonia Voter
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mo32red
Dec 9 2005, 03:43 PM
Interested
You make a lot of good points. Now that the board has spoken, I for one, am going to make the best of the situation and keep a positive attitude in front of my children!!!!! I don't want to get too deep in thought but, Life is too short and I am healthy, my kids are healthy, and a great deal of people I met through Hull are healthy too!!!!!! If we all get together, honestly, I think we can make it work!!!!!!


Mo


I agree that if we all work together, we CAN make a difference.

The board has spoken, but soon it will be the voters that speak.

Together we can take back our schools!

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