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Educational Research; Facts and Research
Topic Started: Oct 30 2005, 05:54 PM (5,779 Views)
Cindi
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Principal
I thought I heard someone say that he was putting together a list of all the references? I submitted a letter to the O&E and I was told that he would print it (I posted the letter here but had to revise it and make it 400 words or less). I included that the facts and references could be found at www.livonianeighbors.com. It might be easier for people to do their research if it were all listed under the "Facts" heading. The letter will probably run in the Editorials on Thursday, the turn around has been pretty quick. If help is needed, I'm on it.
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Kennedy Mom
Kindergarten
[ * ]
I noticed a post indicating that the 5/6 configuration is usually done because of growth. I was checking out the Hartland District and noticed they have the same configuration as our proposal. I called the district and they told me that they switched to that configuration about 5 or 6 years ago due to GROWTH. Prior to that they had K-5, 6-7 and 9-12. We must be the only district doing it backwards!
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LJHY
1st Grade
[ *  * ]
Items that should be looked into:

1. Revenue lost from building(s) currently leased by other programs.

2. New and/or replacement playground equipment at buildings taken back by LPS

3. Cost of renovating ( cabinetry, carpeting, new phone system, etc. ) at Rosedale
to bring up to current LPS standard.

4. Additional cost of diesel fuel for new buses.

5. Net savings concerning the actual, not fuzzy reading stuff, staff reductions.

6. Instrument cost for 5/6 proposed programs.

7. Number of staff reduced from a very top heavy Central Office corps and what
the savings will total.

8. With the increas of traffic around schools, will the police be there to issue
tickets to the idiots who park in no parking zones and obstruct sight capabilities
of students and other traffic not going to the schools. Sorry, a pet peeve of
mine.

Just a few things learned through LPS people. Might want to ask how many of the board members were aware, truly aware, of what they were deciding on during the demographics meetings. Relayed to my spouse," after it was presented to the board, two of them came up to an LPS employee and asked if that is really what we decided". Privaledged information so I do not want to get anyone in trouble or lose line of information. This person is a good friend of my spouse and would not be fun around the house if something were to occur. Also, I believe everyone is in agreement that something must be done; but, it was decided by person(s) high up do close as many buildings as possible now for immediate savings and/or cash flow. Nothing was ever considered about a student body increase and what would be done if we needed to construct or take back (renovate) a building in the future.

Ih, good question for the city council: If you are so concerned about the schools, why are you building condos, huge homes, or ohter types of residences that do not provide the opportunity for younger couples to move here with young children or wanting to start a family. Too many people are moving in, which is great, but most have older children, high school age, than ones who will be here for 8 - 12 years. Just a thought.
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Cindi
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Principal
F11: It was in the Frequently Asked Questions section of the handouts I received at Frost. Under #1 second paragrapgh. You are right there is a lot of vague and misleading info. Like I said, some things I have read indicate an enrollment drop of 1100 throughout the district, the FAQ and the chart they have in the back of the blue book states K-6 enrollment. I question using Kindergarten figures because many daycares and Montissori's offer Kindergarten and it is also my understanding that children are not required to attend Kindgergarten in Michigan (am I correct on that one?). I really don't know what the percentage would be or if it would make any difference in the numbers. Just an questionable observation of the material provided by the Demo Committee.

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gr1
Principal

Quote:
 
Ih, good question for the city council: If you are so concerned about the schools, why are you building condos, huge homes, or ohter types of residences that do not provide the opportunity for younger couples to move here with young children or wanting to start a family. Too many people are moving in, which is great, but most have older children


I agree with you about the condos, however I believe the councils rationale for this is that the seniors who do not want to move out of Livonia will purchase these "maintenance free" residences and sell their single family home to a family with children. I don't see it working that way though. I also think that by zoning a new subdivision as condo they can squeeze more homes in, thereby increasing profits for the select builders they allow into Livonia and increasing property tax revenue; which none of, of course is permitted (by law) to be put into our schools.
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gr1
Principal
f11
Nov 3 2005, 08:56 AM

Now, the demographics committee states that "Since 1995, the district has experienced a decline in enrollment of 1,100 students"
THIS CHART REFUTES THAT STATEMENT!!!
DID THEY JUST MAKE A MISTAKE???

And actually it shows we are HIGHER THAN 1995 by more than 200 students
AND currently above average on enrollment.

17494 students (04/05)

Average for the 13 years on the chart is 17423 students


I can't answer as to the number discrepancy, however I can attest to the fact that enrollment numbers v. number of elementary schools we've been able to support prior to 1995 cannot be compared to 1995-2005.

Since the adoption of Proposal A, we as citizens no longer have the option to vote in a property tax increase to support funding for schools not operating at capacity. So, if enrollment prior to and in 1995 was lower than it is today, it is very likely that a bond/millage proposal was on the ballot. Historically, Livonians were very generous with tax dollars put toward our schools. the extra dollars to avoid or minimize changes would be accumulated in that way. We no longer have that option. Our district is given somewhere between $8,000 - 8,200 each year per student (depending on whether the state enacts a retroactive reduction which they've done for 3 of the past four years)

We have fewer options to support our schools. Even money raised by the LPS foundation can only be used for capital improvements and not toward general operating expenses. All this can be verified by doing a google on the Michigan Headlee Ammendmant.
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lpsproposalsrbad
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Principal
The new research listing page at www,citizensforlivoniasfuture.com is now up. It has a lot of the links that are discussed on Livonianeighbors.com, all assembeld on one page. Not everything that we know is there... yet. Please bear with me because of the large amount of info that has to be posted. PLEASE NOTE: The Freedom of Information Act info that we requested and recieved (a little of), is posted on this page in PDF format for your viewing pleasure.

Tom
www.citizensforlivoniasfuture.com
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c3hull
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Principal
National Center for Education Statistic (www.nces.ed.gov) type in 5-6 schools in the SEARCH box.

This data is collected annually directly from State Education Agencies (SEAs)

Results for: 5-6 schools: 59
Document count: schools: 26,457
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c3hull
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Principal
Kennedy Mom,
You are right! Growth is the most common reason for using the 5-6 schools!
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lpsproposalsrbad
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Principal
C3,

I'm not sure we're reading the search results the same. The way I interpret the search, is that it comes back showing 27,000 references to the word "school" & 59 references to "5-6". If you have found a document that indeed shows 27,000 schools in the U.S. and fraction of them use a 5-6 model, let me know, but as we've found already there are 33 schools in Michigan alone that use the 5-6 model. If there are 27,000 schools in the US, and 59 are 5-6, that would mean that more than half of the 5-6 schools (33) would be in Michigan. I'm not sure that's true.

To better illustrate what I mean about the search, try this : Try a search for the phrase "5-6 schools bicycle". Bicycle is just another "term" I used to test the search. When the search returns it's results, I get School (27000), 5-6 (59), bicycle (95). This should not be interpreted that there are 27000 schools, 59 that are 5-6, with 95 bicycles. The search is merely looking to match any of the words or phrases to anything on the entire site.

I'm not criticizing. I'm totally on your side as you know. I wish this was a fact, we'd win for sure.

Tom Burr
CFLF ;)
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LJHY
1st Grade
[ *  * ]
Post Prposal A, the city would make more from a neighbor of mine moving out because the new occupants would pay more in property taxes. Sounds like a great trade off for the older citizens of Livonia to move into their condos... But, they will be paying more taxes on a newly constructed housing unit than they would be staying in their old, familiar home. Thank you ex- State Senator, now federal Senator, Debbie Stab-ya-now, LPS, PTSA, and the rest of the government suck ups for the stupidity. Nothing like stupidity to vote a Constitutional proposal into law that allows the Michigan Congress to fill in the rules as it was voted on tne floor. Viva la Ignorance!
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Omega
Kindergarten
[ * ]
Must apologize, the above reply was from my opinion. I am now registered under my own name so I do not have to use my spouses name. Sorry, a bit too lazy to read the directions.
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Grant1
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We have just begun to fight!
Here is a true fact - always remember Newton's Third Law - "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"
I would suggest the following action to get further notice of the board. Begin the recall paperwork proceedings immediately and make it public knowledge. There will be reaction from the board to this as soon as they know it is being actively pursued. Do it legally, register and get it on the books as soon as you can...tomorrow is too late!
Similar procedures as this have deterred appointed/elected officials from progressing on thier plans for fear of losing thier influence and positions. There are few powers that the public can wield over officials, but this power is one of the most influential.
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c3hull
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Principal
Does anyone know how MEAP scores related to $ for our district??
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Elisa
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Principal
Meap scores are now primarily used by the governemnt as part of No Child Left Behind. They are our state's measure in terms of making yearly academic progress and so on. BUT, the meaps are highly influential on real estate. The higher a districts meaps, the more the houses sell for (Birmingham, Grosse Pointe, 2 of the highest meaps in the state=2 of the most expensive areas to live).
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