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High School Change; Bad Idea
Topic Started: Oct 23 2005, 12:06 PM (2,755 Views)
Rose
Principal
edforall
Dec 21 2005, 11:08 AM
Anna Krome
Dec 13 2005, 03:06 PM
Thank you, Elisa, for explaining so many things in such a logical way.

As for teacher layoffs, my understanding is that there are no plans to layoff any teachers.

In a district with declining enrollment, it seems odd that no teachers would be layed off. (Pundits, I do not wish to see anyone lose their job.)

I know that there was a meeting for teachers only--shortly after this plan was introduced on cable TV.

Admin. basically promised teachers a "rose garden"--no more pink slips, no more moving around every year, more stability, more negotiating power with the BOE, etc.

How can our teachers say what is on their minds, when they are indentured to the BOE?

Anna Krome

No teachers were promised a "rose garden" that is FACT. It is a known FACT that jobs would be lost from all areas. Changes are coming not only for parents but for staff also ALL areas of staff. The meeting was on the day that the meeting for the community. Teachers found out when the community did. The schools have the right to move the teachers and staff from school to school every year at their whim. That will not change. The staff will have no more power than they all ready do, and that is not as much as all of you would like to believe. At no time were the staff told to keep their mouths shut. Teachers and staff are just as up in the air as all of you. Maybe more...they are not sure about their jobs. You know. If all of you would step back and take a look at the financal mess the schools are in then you would be a bit scared that if a change is not made then some of the programs that we hold dear are going to be cut. Music,art,gym. Class size will go up because we will have to lay off teachers because we can't pay them so in the end you will have larger class sizes instead of different schools with a greater population but small class size. Is that what you want? No programs but a school across the street with 30 plus kids in each class? How about the magnet programs? All gone,we will lose those also. These are things that you are not thinking about,these are things that inpact all of LPS(please stop saying Livonia citizens it is the district and Westland is in that to)and all the kids in it. Some of the families want these programs and don't want to lose them because you are not willing to open your eyes and see that there is mess in front of you and it needs to be fixed and it is not easy but to save a large portion you must lose a small portion and I know that it is not easy and I feel sorry for you I really do don't get me wrong. You all are not thinking of everyone else. Mr. Bailey is now your hero but did he offer any solution to the financal mess? Ask your self this question.

This financial mess did not happen over night. The BOE should have considered changes at least two years ago. They would have time to include the community input as well as look at all options more carefully. I have no pity for them. They say they worked hard for 13 months? In my opinion they took the easy way out. Maybe it would have taken a little longer to weigh the community's opinions and do more thorough research because we are talking about a major change here. They mismanaged our schools and just needed a quick way out. Although this proposal may be a quick fix, quick fixes rarely work or at least work for too long.
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TAB
Principal
edforall.....I didn't offer a solution to this financial mess because I wasn't asked.
Keep in mind how all of this came about......560 school districts in Michigan and somewhere around 520 are in financial crisis.....the Demographics Committee was formed to examine our district as a whole and report back to the BOE. Their reply was to go to a K-4 program. The proposal recommended to the BOE was not to look at a K-5 or K-6 or anything else....when we voted, it was to adopt the K-4 plan "ONLY"....you saw my vote.....at what time was I supposed to say what I wanted......what I wanted on the proposal was how I voted......now......what would I like to have seen....same $$$ savings but stay with the K-6 plan......you must remember, it wasn't an option......if I come out now and say this.....who's going to listen??????

Tom

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fyi
Principal
This is where I get confused. Did we elect the Demographics Committee?
Why do the people that served on this committee get to speak for the citizens of Livonia? Three plans should have been presented to the community and then to the BOE. Elected officials should have sincerely considered the opinions of the community (longer than 6 weeks). After careful consideration of all the facts, they should have voted. How does a recommendation, from a committee of administrators and employees, turn into the only option. It was a recommendation. All plans should have been considered. Surveys should have been conducted to include all stakeholders. In the end, the Board should have voted for the plan that the community supported. Without community support this plan will fail.














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edforall
Principal
TAB
Dec 21 2005, 05:37 PM
edforall.....I didn't offer a solution to this financial mess because I wasn't asked.
Keep in mind how all of this came about......560 school districts in Michigan and somewhere around 520 are in financial crisis.....the Demographics Committee was formed to examine our district as a whole and report back to the BOE.  Their reply was to go to a K-4 program.  The proposal recommended to the BOE was not to look at a K-5 or K-6 or anything else....when we voted, it was to adopt the K-4 plan "ONLY"....you saw my vote.....at what time was I supposed to say what I wanted......what I wanted on the proposal was how I voted......now......what would I like to have seen....same $$$ savings but stay with the K-6 plan......you must remember, it wasn't an option......if I come out now and say this.....who's going to listen??????

Tom

Yes you were asked to vote on this proposal, but I have seen you sit on this board since you were elected. You knew from the day you were elected the mess we were in. You had ample time to offer some idea as to what could be done for money in our schools that was so needed. Did you go to Lansing? If you did great. If you didn't shame on you. You know Mr. Bailey I have sent you letters and called you have never returned them. Why is that? You did say at the meeting that if it was voted in that you would work with the others to be one BOE and not speak out against this plan again but here you sit on this site speaking out. Don't you think that this is wrong?
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edforall
Principal
Anna Krome
Dec 21 2005, 02:33 PM
Edforall, you seem a bit misinformed. Below, I have tried to address your concerns.

Have you studied the financials? They are severely incomplete. Many do understand that school financing is in serious trouble. We have already cut 19 mil, as Ms. Morgan has said. No more can be cut. I AGREE w/her.

This quagmire is true for almost all school districts right now. The State TAKES, BOEs must CUT. A new plan or legislation is necessary, no doubt.

The problem w/this initiative is THAT IT DOES NOTHING FOR THE CHILDREN and SAVES the same amount of $$, as the K-6 plan, Livonians prefer. How do I know? The BOE conducted a survey and did not follow their own findings.

I CHALLENGE you to provide ONE thing this does for our kids. Are the things "promised" really worth this topsy-turvy idea?

As for programs...Are you aware that there is actually a 5 minute DECREASE in weekly "special" time? This information is readily available from the LI.

Further, are you aware that the PERCEIVED specials our kids are to receive are FROM the BOE taking away AFTERNOON RECESS? It's a wash. And, did you KNOW that RECESS, according to several studies, including potential legislation, has stated that RECESS is NECESSARY and BETTER for children--more so than an extra gym?

Are you aware that the specials to be reinstated were just taken away about 2 years ago? I don't hold much hope for any of them to stay in place. Did you know that the "specials" are hardly an adequate amount of time to teach too much of anything. YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT BE SPEAKING ANOTHER LANGUAGE.

As for teachers, I know they will do their best, and they are concerned. But, I personally know of teachers, low on seniority, who were told if the LI goes through, they will stop being pink-slipped.

Teachers have been seriously silent about this topic. Aren't they on the front lines regarding advocating for our children? Well, yes. But because the BOE is their boss, how can they speak freely w/o concern?

As for KEEPING KIDS TOGETHER. Hmmm. This would be a logistical nightmare. Why? Just look at the numbers of children we're talking about. The kids may end up in the same schools, but it might be a little hard for them to find their neighbors in a 900+ school. Do the odds.

I am a concerned parent, who feels that some schools may close, but that this plan is NOT the answer. I feel that the BOE is out of touch w/reality. They are victims of selective memory and gross ignorance.

I also know the BOE has nice people on it. Smart people. How do I know this? I have spoken to them at meetings, coffee clatch, emails, etc. But they are in a bubble. They have surrounded themselves w/yes people. It is a very serious and dangerous position for an elected official. I also think Tom Bailey is a good guy and very concerned about our kids, but he is not my personal hero.

ANY topic you would like to logically argue, I am game for. Everyone is angry about this. Kids are involved. We are all excited. BUT many folks are severely misinformed. The fact that this was presented, and 6 weeks later they voted-- hardly gave many the time to become informed.

This seems unfair and uncourteous to the constituents. This LI affects everyone in this 100,000-citizen city. A much larger group of stakeholders are necessary to make such sweeping changes, which will affect the economy of Livonia for years to come.

Anna Krome

Oh. I am not misinformed. Were you active in financal issues before this all came about? I am not misinformed when it comes to teachers in this district....I am one! the meeting DID NOT happen with us on this proposal until the momment the community was having theirs. We were at Churhill HS. Did you know that? We found out when you did. Did you go to Lansing in support of state support? 5 minute weekly decrease? that is 1 MINUTE A DAY,how about in the near future none at all? would you like that? I know for a fact that older children for the most part just tend to walk around and are not very active in recess. Have you watched upper el children day in and day out? Thought not. Gym makes them participate and be active so they don't have the chance to just stand around. Both of my children had interest in another language,it sparked my oldest and he is now in his 3rd year of spanish and plans to have a minor in collage. BOE is not my boss. I am my own. I called them to tell them thank you for finally doing something that made some sort of sense to help save the schools. It is tough...my kids are here to,but I want to see them have things left and not some shell of a system. Did you know that the kids had to pay to play this year? Cuts were coming and you can't stop them. SOMETHING NEEDED TO BE DONE. It was just not the thing you wanted. But you know it was just a select few schools that didn't like it. I saw on this site all of you trying to get it started with schools that just didn't want to fight the board because they were ok with the plan. Like I said it was a select few schools. Now about the pink slips,I think that they are holding out hope. We all know that if you were off on pink slip that we most likely won' t be back and if you are low on the list maybe start looking somewhere else. We are ALL worried. I don't know who you have been talking to. We all recived our seniority list just a few weeks back. This is a very different time for all. You are allowed your opinon and I mine. It just seems that no one hear really wants to hear anything other than this forums views. I am sure that you will find nothing but flaws in my views and front line facts. You think that you all have all the answers when in fact none of us do. That is the problem. This is a problem, there are no easy answers to all any of this for anyone and no one person can come up with them.
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Rose
Principal
The older kids just standing around is not what I see at my school. They are either playing baseball, soccer... Besides, if they stand around I think that's OK too. Kids lives are so structured these days...they need to have some down time during their busy school day to hang out with friends.....just like us adults.
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Anna Krome
Principal
RECESS: I agree w/Rose about recess. It is very important to children.

My kindergartener was CRUSHED, when she found out they do not have recess in kindergarten this year. She wanted so much to play on the equipment and have a little free time w/friends.

Our K. teacher told us from the first day that what was kindergarten has become first grade now. But that's another issue for the BOE and "No Child Left Behind."

Just as you state, the issue is free time/fresh air/friend-talk, etc. Kids need this.

And coming up, the legislature is going to pass a law that requires so many minutes of recess.

The point is: The "specials" are not special. People think they are "gaining" something from the LI. They are not. And, it won't be long before the "specials" are replaced w/recess again.

I feel that the BOE has misled the community on the "specials" issue. Maybe TAB can comment?

Anna Krome
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heymom
Principal
There is no doubt that all elementary students need two recesses. For some it's a physical outlet and for others, who may appear to "stand around" it's more of a social thing. I would be extremely upset if either recess is eliminated in a 5/6 setting. Besides, this may be the only opportunity they have to connect with their neighborhood friends. Keeping communities together - yeah, right.
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livoniarecall
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edforall
Principal
edforall
Dec 23 2005, 11:06 AM
TAB
Dec 21 2005, 05:37 PM
edforall.....I didn't offer a solution to this financial mess because I wasn't asked.
Keep in mind how all of this came about......560 school districts in Michigan and somewhere around 520 are in financial crisis.....the Demographics Committee was formed to examine our district as a whole and report back to the BOE.  Their reply was to go to a K-4 program.  The proposal recommended to the BOE was not to look at a K-5 or K-6 or anything else....when we voted, it was to adopt the K-4 plan "ONLY"....you saw my vote.....at what time was I supposed to say what I wanted......what I wanted on the proposal was how I voted......now......what would I like to have seen....same $$$ savings but stay with the K-6 plan......you must remember, it wasn't an option......if I come out now and say this.....who's going to listen??????

Tom

Yes you were asked to vote on this proposal, but I have seen you sit on this board since you were elected. You knew from the day you were elected the mess we were in. You had ample time to offer some idea as to what could be done for money in our schools that was so needed. Did you go to Lansing? If you did great. If you didn't shame on you. You know Mr. Bailey I have sent you letters and called you have never returned them. Why is that? You did say at the meeting that if it was voted in that you would work with the others to be one BOE and not speak out against this plan again but here you sit on this site speaking out. Don't you think that this is wrong?

TAB......Why don't you answer?????? I would like to know. You answer all other questions. Is it that I asked something that you are not comfortable with? You have been on here several times since I put this post up and no answer has come from you. I am starting to think that you only answer the people of Livonia and the ones that are for the LI. Were you at Lansing? Since you came into office what cost saving measures have you offered to the district and the BOE? Why do you keep speaking out against what is now going to be put into place when you stated that you would not do so? Why don't you try to help stop rumors by telling the truth about things that you know are fact and things that you know are fiction? The time is now for you to help heal all of this. A vote was taken. You voted against it. But it did pass with a majority. IT DID PASS. Don't you think that it is about time to stop this silly game and just show a united front going into such a time of change?
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