| High School Change; Bad Idea | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 23 2005, 12:06 PM (2,757 Views) | |
| Tyler_Parent | Dec 13 2005, 08:42 AM Post #31 |
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Looks like someone else was using your screen name just 2 days prior. |
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| Grant | Dec 13 2005, 08:53 AM Post #32 |
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Principal
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Tyler parent, Interesting...... From all the posts on this site that Livonia2252 posts...that is odd. It seems to me that Livonia2252 is a board memeber or a family memeber of. What do you think? Check it out. |
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| Elisa | Dec 13 2005, 08:58 AM Post #33 |
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It is actually illogical to compare LPS to Novi. It is not enough to simply copy the grade configuration and believe that we will be as successful as Novi. The program in Novi is run differently. The curriculum is different, the approach is different. They use a true "teaming" approach, with teacher's having an hour of collaboration time per day. Their curriculum allows for "differentiation". There are numerous differences that contribute to their higher meap scores (only one indicator of how well a school is doing). Essentially, LPS is taking the "skeleton" of Novi's model but not putting the "meat" on it. Don't expect LPS to be as successful as Novi by simply borrowing the configuration.
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| Livonia2252 | Dec 13 2005, 11:45 AM Post #34 |
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Since you all seem to care who I am. I am 23 years old, currently in my second year at Cooley Law School in Lansing. In 2004 I got my degree from Grand Valley State University with a double major in Marketing and Finance. I was a member of the class of 2000 from Stevenson High School; I also went to Riley and Roosevelt. I have never met, nor do I personally support the BOE, I just happen to support the decision they have made – for the most part! |
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| Livonia2252 | Dec 13 2005, 11:49 AM Post #35 |
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Principal
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First of all were not just taking Novi's Plan, there our 33 other school systems in the state that have some version of the 5-6 (4-6) plan in effect. Adrian, Battle Creek, Bronson, Byron Center, Charlevoix, Chelsea, Davison, DeWitt, Dexter, Dowagiac, East Lansing, Eaton Rapids, Fenton, Ferndale, Fowlerville, Grand Rapids, Hartland, Holt, Lansing, Manistee, Mt. Pleasant, Muskegon, Novi, Ortonville, Pinckney, Rochester Hill, Saline, Spring Lake, Stanton, Tawas City, Vermontville, Wayland And I am sure if it was not beneficial the following school systems all in Michigan would not have already done some version of the 5-6 plan. ... But oh wait this is Livonia.......the other 33 systems in the state that have adopted some version of the 5-6 plan must not be looking out for benefit of their children |
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| Livonia2252 | Dec 13 2005, 11:53 AM Post #36 |
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Principal
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No, simply put this is the only issue that you all have been changed my views on, and my views are only changed if there actually is some health issues with your children being at the NEW Cooper |
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| Deleted User | Dec 13 2005, 11:59 AM Post #37 |
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How many LPS employees are losing their jobs? |
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| Livonia2252 | Dec 13 2005, 12:03 PM Post #38 |
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Principal
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My guess... None But Truthfully I have no idea. I assume with retirement and the shifting of teachers they wont have to let many, if any go. |
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| Elisa | Dec 13 2005, 02:01 PM Post #39 |
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Livonia2252, You are speaking of the benefits of narrow grade configurations and that the districts you mentioned have all chosen the narrow grade span models because they are beneficial. Yes, they are beneficial. But only to districts needing more space in the lower grade levels due to enrollment increases. They are additionally beneficial to districts that are declining because the model makes the best use of the buildings the district has. There is no research to suggest, nor has it ever been suggested, that a narrow grade span configuration is academically beneficial to the children. I have done a tremendous amount of research and have spoken to the professors that conducted that research. I have studied the reconfiguration plans/processes of many districts here in MI (including several you listed and elsewhere in the country). I would encourage you to take a look at the research on grade span configuration. School to school transition effects are well documented. You will not find anything that claims an academic benefit to the children. You will see how it benefits the districts in terms of utilizing their available buildings. Again, the logic is flawed, you don't do something based on the fact that others are doing it. Particularly, when you do not understand why the others have done it. |
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| Anna Krome | Dec 13 2005, 03:06 PM Post #40 |
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Principal
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Thank you, Elisa, for explaining so many things in such a logical way. As for teacher layoffs, my understanding is that there are no plans to layoff any teachers. In a district with declining enrollment, it seems odd that no teachers would be layed off. (Pundits, I do not wish to see anyone lose their job.) I know that there was a meeting for teachers only--shortly after this plan was introduced on cable TV. Admin. basically promised teachers a "rose garden"--no more pink slips, no more moving around every year, more stability, more negotiating power with the BOE, etc. How can our teachers say what is on their minds, when they are indentured to the BOE? Anna Krome |
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| Tyler_Parent | Dec 13 2005, 03:40 PM Post #41 |
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I would wonder what the attrition projections are and whether they have agreed to a hiring freeze. There were pay and benefit concessions based on the BOE’s comments. I do know that they no longer have the famous teacher’s insurance (MESA). With the problem of under-funded pensions looming, they may have quietly agreed to throw their junior people under the bus. You don’t get those things from a union without giving something back, and you don’t give those things away for free. Certainly backing the 5/6 proposal would have been a condition. The Dr's career in both Westland and then here in Livonia (until his promotion to super) has been as finance manager. This isn’t his first dance. As Anna points out, if I get to keep my job and pension, it's a great idea. Yes sir, may I have more please? One other thing to consider though is that the teachers unions really don't have any teeth, as they are no longer able to strike. "Indentured" can't be too far off the mark either. ---------------------- 05:45 PM I was just given feedback that there were teachers laid off last year, and that the district was only willing to give them a one year contract. The one year contract was due to the pending state-funded insurance initiative. District did not want to give them more insurance than was necessary. Also that there will be more teachers laid off next year if enrollment cannot support them. I'm told that it is simple math: #students=#classrooms=#teachers. Nothing to negotiate there. This is from a union steward in Westland, which is why I was only able to get general data, no specific numbers. Source also firmly believes that "specials" will be dropped in the blink of an eye, regardless of what the model reflects today. |
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| Blair | Dec 14 2005, 01:14 PM Post #42 |
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3rd Grade
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I had one child graduate from Franklin and one from Churchill. Ladies put all the Franklin rumors to rest. I loved Franklin and it would be my choice for my next child. There are less students, yet more school spirit than you know. I have worked their seniors night parties and attended many footbal games. All high schools follow the same format. Give Franklin a chance, I believe you will love it. As for Cooper, no 10 year old should be that far from home, going thru what the Livonia Observer call the worst intersections. |
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| edforall | Dec 21 2005, 11:08 AM Post #43 |
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Principal
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No teachers were promised a "rose garden" that is FACT. It is a known FACT that jobs would be lost from all areas. Changes are coming not only for parents but for staff also ALL areas of staff. The meeting was on the day that the meeting for the community. Teachers found out when the community did. The schools have the right to move the teachers and staff from school to school every year at their whim. That will not change. The staff will have no more power than they all ready do, and that is not as much as all of you would like to believe. At no time were the staff told to keep their mouths shut. Teachers and staff are just as up in the air as all of you. Maybe more...they are not sure about their jobs. You know. If all of you would step back and take a look at the financal mess the schools are in then you would be a bit scared that if a change is not made then some of the programs that we hold dear are going to be cut. Music,art,gym. Class size will go up because we will have to lay off teachers because we can't pay them so in the end you will have larger class sizes instead of different schools with a greater population but small class size. Is that what you want? No programs but a school across the street with 30 plus kids in each class? How about the magnet programs? All gone,we will lose those also. These are things that you are not thinking about,these are things that inpact all of LPS(please stop saying Livonia citizens it is the district and Westland is in that to)and all the kids in it. Some of the families want these programs and don't want to lose them because you are not willing to open your eyes and see that there is mess in front of you and it needs to be fixed and it is not easy but to save a large portion you must lose a small portion and I know that it is not easy and I feel sorry for you I really do don't get me wrong. You all are not thinking of everyone else. Mr. Bailey is now your hero but did he offer any solution to the financal mess? Ask your self this question. |
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| Anna Krome | Dec 21 2005, 02:33 PM Post #44 |
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Principal
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Edforall, you seem a bit misinformed. Below, I have tried to address your concerns. Have you studied the financials? They are severely incomplete. Many do understand that school financing is in serious trouble. We have already cut 19 mil, as Ms. Morgan has said. No more can be cut. I AGREE w/her. This quagmire is true for almost all school districts right now. The State TAKES, BOEs must CUT. A new plan or legislation is necessary, no doubt. The problem w/this initiative is THAT IT DOES NOTHING FOR THE CHILDREN and SAVES the same amount of $$, as the K-6 plan, Livonians prefer. How do I know? The BOE conducted a survey and did not follow their own findings. I CHALLENGE you to provide ONE thing this does for our kids. Are the things "promised" really worth this topsy-turvy idea? As for programs...Are you aware that there is actually a 5 minute DECREASE in weekly "special" time? This information is readily available from the LI. Further, are you aware that the PERCEIVED specials our kids are to receive are FROM the BOE taking away AFTERNOON RECESS? It's a wash. And, did you KNOW that RECESS, according to several studies, including potential legislation, has stated that RECESS is NECESSARY and BETTER for children--more so than an extra gym? Are you aware that the specials to be reinstated were just taken away about 2 years ago? I don't hold much hope for any of them to stay in place. Did you know that the "specials" are hardly an adequate amount of time to teach too much of anything. YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT BE SPEAKING ANOTHER LANGUAGE. As for teachers, I know they will do their best, and they are concerned. But, I personally know of teachers, low on seniority, who were told if the LI goes through, they will stop being pink-slipped. Teachers have been seriously silent about this topic. Aren't they on the front lines regarding advocating for our children? Well, yes. But because the BOE is their boss, how can they speak freely w/o concern? As for KEEPING KIDS TOGETHER. Hmmm. This would be a logistical nightmare. Why? Just look at the numbers of children we're talking about. The kids may end up in the same schools, but it might be a little hard for them to find their neighbors in a 900+ school. Do the odds. I am a concerned parent, who feels that some schools may close, but that this plan is NOT the answer. I feel that the BOE is out of touch w/reality. They are victims of selective memory and gross ignorance. I also know the BOE has nice people on it. Smart people. How do I know this? I have spoken to them at meetings, coffee clatch, emails, etc. But they are in a bubble. They have surrounded themselves w/yes people. It is a very serious and dangerous position for an elected official. I also think Tom Bailey is a good guy and very concerned about our kids, but he is not my personal hero. ANY topic you would like to logically argue, I am game for. Everyone is angry about this. Kids are involved. We are all excited. BUT many folks are severely misinformed. The fact that this was presented, and 6 weeks later they voted-- hardly gave many the time to become informed. This seems unfair and uncourteous to the constituents. This LI affects everyone in this 100,000-citizen city. A much larger group of stakeholders are necessary to make such sweeping changes, which will affect the economy of Livonia for years to come. Anna Krome |
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| amomof2 | Dec 21 2005, 02:46 PM Post #45 |
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Principal
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Well put, Anna! |
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