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WALL·E vs Avatar
Topic Started: Apr 19 2010, 04:25 PM (1,111 Views)
Duzzy
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In a few days James Cameron's latest film, Avatar is on dvd. I thought to celebrate the moment, I would like to compare what I think is one of the best movies of the decade, Wall-E, with what other people say is one of the best movies of the year/decade. I am doing this because they are both extremely similar films in terms of themes, characters, time setting, and genre. But I'm mainly doing this to prove Wall-E is a better film in every aspect except in terms of visual aspects. Avatar already has the visual aspect element in the bag and I doubt any film in the next few years will compare to Avatar visually. I'll have this separated into multiple posts, because this will be fucking huge.

I'm covering

Wall-E vs Jake Sully
EVE vs Neytiri
Love in Wall-E vs Love in Avatar
Humans in Wall-E vs Humans in Avatar
Villains in Wall-E vs Villains in Avatar
Conclusion

That's right, 6 big fucking posts. I really recommend reading and commenting for each post. Leaving this all to the end would be the equivalent of never watching Lord of the Rings before, but watching all 3 movies at once. It'll just be long and eventually dull.

I would also like to note that I don't hate Avatar. I gave it a 8/10 here, but I think it's around a 7/10 now. It's visually appealing, has great themes, a terrific world of Pandora and some pretty interesting concepts. I just think Avatar just isn't there in the writing aspects. It lacks the emotions and character development that Wall-E does very well. So, enjoy, the first post will be tomorrow :biggrin:
Edited by Duzzy, Apr 19 2010, 04:29 PM.



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Duzzy
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Big warning.I have done the first 3 parts. It's 5 pages long and 2689 words. Good God... I'm still going to finish writing it, but does anyone actually want to read this? This is much bigger then I thought it would be....



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somekindofbrady
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I do!

Though for me the contest is already over, Wall-E hands down has won this.


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Duzzy
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Ok, I did want to write this all first, before starting, but since Avatar comes out today, might as well start!

Wall-E vs. Jake Sully
What has wheels and lacks the futures standard of intelligence? Why, the main characters of Wall-E and Avatar.

Wall-E is a trash compactor, plain and simple. However after spending years fixing the mess that is Earth, he has become extremely curious and fun loving. He befriends a little cricket and collects junk that he finds interesting. The first thing you will notice is Wall-E does not have a scanner like EVE. Wall-E is an old model of robot and from what I can tell, he was the last robot made before humans left Earth.

The way Wall-E “scans” things is similar to us. He grabs things, feels them, looks at them, and shakes them. He uses his “senses”. I’m sure if he had a tongue or could taste things he would taste the things he finds. Everything about Wall-E is fascinating; he’s like a little boy. He’s not working; he’s running around his own world finding things that interest him and plays with them. If anything, Wall-E is more human than human. He’s developed a personality but because of lack of money, sex, friends, pride, and other things that hold us back, he stays the same. He stays as a small curious boy who is trapped in a world that he doesn’t understand.

I think Wall-E is a symbol of innocence, purity and our childhood. As children we weren’t concerned with anything. We didn’t really care about what people thought, we had no sexual desire, we didn’t need money, we just did what we thought was fun. We were extremely curious. Kids say and question anything because they don’t understand that some things can’t be answered.

Jake Sully is a soldier working for…uh…Earth? I don’t think it’s the U.S. Government. Anyway he’s a human, but his legs don’t work. Does he really need to be a cripple? What does this accomplish? Is it the idea of him enjoying and wanting to take over his twin brothers Avatar in order to walk again? Are you saying that being inside a 10 foot tall blue cat man isn’t exciting enough? I would love to be one of those things. Hell I’ll even take one that is crippled and in a wheel chair. He’s seen by other characters as a jar head, but he eventually does grow. He adapts to his new Avatar and learns the way of the Na’vi and turns into the hero who saves the day for the good guys.

However as Wall-E “scans” things, Jake seems more afraid of Pandora. He doesn’t really know how to react and I blame that on him being a full grown male. He’s in the army obviously because of money; I don’t think many people join the army because it’s fun. He has sex with Netyiri, wants to be friends with the Na’vi and his army buddies, and has the need to prove that he can accomplish tasks that he is sent to do. You see he’s not an innocent person and from this we don’t learn the characters aspects as well as Wall-E’s. We might feel more connected to him, but that doesn’t make him interesting or a deeper character.

Some of the best parts of Wall-E is when he is touching and playing with things on Earth. The best parts of Avatar are the moments when we tour Pandora. However, like I said Jake is afraid. He doesn’t know how to react to the glowing plant life or the Ikranes. When I saw the movie, do you want to know what many people in the audience were doing? They were reaching out and “grabbing” the 3D objects. I know it’s just a film and we have nothing to really fear, but the desire is right. How about asking Netyiri what is deadly and what isn’t? I mean she’s like a hunter type of woman right? She would know, but instead Jake is afraid and doesn’t touch or interact with anything. I mean it’s a good way to spark conversation with her. He obviously wants to be her friend or boyfriend. Instead of that, he just follows her around and she just teaches him things that are important to the plot. It doesn’t really open up the world and just tries to get the plot through.

Although I would say both Jake and Wall-E are curious, Wall-E is vastly more interesting. He has a personality that you wouldn’t think of: the aspects of an innocent young boy and the desire to have fun and learn things. Jake has to grow into being that character and by the time that happens; he really doesn’t need to be that way. The movie is almost over; he already had sex with Netyiri, and is already fighting a war against the humans. It’s interesting how a robot that cleans garbage has a more humanistic personality then the fully grown male. Maybe James Cameron was saying something about current humans and is saying the same thing that I am, but now let’s find out about Netyiri …



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Gemlin
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Great first post, man, after reading that I can't wait to see everything else. Also it sounds like I need to watch Wall-E.
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somekindofbrady
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Gemlin
Apr 22 2010, 09:34 AM
Also it sounds like I need to watch Wall-E.
YOU'VE NOT SEEN IT? =o


Then again, I've not seen Up, I shouldn't be that shocked by something like this...


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Gemlin
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somekindofbrady
Apr 22 2010, 01:05 PM
Gemlin
Apr 22 2010, 09:34 AM
Also it sounds like I need to watch Wall-E.
YOU'VE NOT SEEN IT? =o


Then again, I've not seen Up, I shouldn't be that shocked by something like this...
I, I know...I should be ashamed of myself :cry:

Also...
Spoiler: click to toggle
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Duzzy
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Oh man, both Up and Wall-E are terrific. Up has probably the saddest intro in movie history.



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Alex V.1
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great first post cant wait to read more
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Duzzy
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EVE vs. Netyiri

What is blue and needs attention? Why it’s the balls of men who have girlfriends that refused to dress like either character.

EVE is superior to Wall-E in every way possible. She is slick, shiny, new, fast, and highly intelligent. However, unlike Wall-E she lacks personality. She is on Earth for one mission, to find plant life. Just the way she even examines plant life is interesting. She uses a scanner. This must mean that she doesn’t have the “senses” that Wall-E has. Eventually though, Wall-E teaches her about fun and things of that nature. The best way to describe EVE is that smart cute older girl that the young boy likes. She would get good grades, care about her education, worry about appearance and want to work to earn money. She’s very responsible, but Wall-E kinda breaks her down into having some fun on Earth as she continues working.

Like what I was saying with Jake Sully, EVE is a portrayal of a grown up person. She represents what is going to happen to us if we worry about the things I have previously mentioned. I think the best way to describe it is what happens to her. She does her job to serve her master, and then shuts down. It’s like us. We’re a slave to money and then we die. How bittersweet… EVE however is very interesting because she actually develops a personality off of Wall-E and unlike Jake, she develops it more quickly, giving us a chance to appreciate and care about her struggles better. She starts to just develop emotions just before being shut down, thus making us feel upset for Wall-E as he is madly in love with her and makes us wonder what will happen to her next. When she awakes, she is confused as to why Wall-E followed her, like she doesn’t understand love (like a robot, hey look at that). After watching her surveillance camera and seeing that Wall-E followed her the whole time, she actually get’s it. At this moment she actually considers Wall-E more than a friend.

Netyiri grows in a similar manner. She finds Jake stupid, then finds him kinda cute in a stupid way and then eventually is impressed by how fast he is adapting for such a stupid person. However, she understands love and actually falls in love with Jake, thus causing her to break up with that asshole boyfriend whose name no one can recall. The one problem is Jake is teaching her nothing. Love is a learning experience. Partners should learn from each other. Understand each other’s struggles, their hopes, their ambitions, their home life, their personality, what they are good at, and see what their concept of life really is. We have no idea if Jake cares about nature and spiritualness, he just goes with it because he supposed to learn about the Na’vi. How does she fall for him? Is his stupidness and lack of ability really that cute and charming? I’ve worked with people who are stupid and lack ability; it’s not charming and cute. It’s frustrating and annoying. Either she has great patience, or she just finds him cute in general, meaning that it’s lust and not love.

Now it would make sense if she is like Wall-E in the sense that she is very humanistic, thus making the symbolism that humans have grown out of their human nature by making life complicated and that being simple like the Na’vi is the way to live because we are not relying on technology or anything. I think this is what Cameron was going for, but it doesn’t work. Netyiri has a lot of pride in her race and a lot of pride in herself. She cheats on her boyfriend with Jake; she is not an innocent person like Wall-E is. If she’s not innocent, then technically she’s not simple. Like Jake I can see why people can connect with her, but like Jake that doesn’t make her interesting. It makes her just like Jake. She’s just as “human” as him. This makes very little reason to worry that there is no connection, thus not making drama. You see if you feel the drama in their romance is from her relationship or them in reality being 2 different races, you don’t really see that humans will have sex with anyone, anything, no matter what the consequences is. I’ll save this more for the love comparison, but what I am saying is Jake and Netyiri are too similar to create the drama needed in a romance.

This is why Wall-E and EVE works. They are different and that means they learn from each other. I understand in love you need similar tastes, personalities, and interests to make it work, but in reality it’s a learning experience. You should be able to learn from each other to better each other or teach each other about different things. Netyiri learns nothing positive about humans or about Jake. It would be like if a Nazi married a black chick. She won’t see anything positive about his people because they are constantly hurting her race. He can even show up to her family dinner black faced, it won’t matter, because she knows who he is and how hurtful his people can be. But you know what they say, love is blind…



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Alex V.1
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King Duzzy
Apr 23 2010, 03:05 PM
EVE vs. Netyiri

What is blue and needs attention? Why it’s the balls of men who have girlfriends that refused to dress like either character.
ouch man

lots of true and great points bro i cant wait to read more
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Duzzy
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Love in Wall-E vs. Love in Avatar

Love like sand knows no borders, except when she files restraining orders.

Like I was explaining love is a learning experience. It starts off with friendship, but after learning from each other about personal preferences, ideologies, interests, skills, and determinations, we can grow from friends to people in love. If you don’t get that concept and think love between people isn’t like that, look at your interests. At one point you only liked a certain thing, but after learning more about it, spending time with it, you grow to love it. But, love is vast. A definition of love from dictionary.com gives me 28 different meanings.

Yet, with different meanings and different interpretations of love, both Wall-E and Avatar are similar in the fact that they use what I call Romeo and Juliet love. Two different classes of people, who seem very different in appearance, yet in personality and interests they are similar. They learn that money or race or class isn’t a problem at all. Wall-E is an old, slow, rust bucket of a robot and EVE is a futuristic, new, smart, sleek robot. Jake is a stupid, jarhead of a human and Netyiri is a cunning, sexy, agile Na’vi hunter. Despite both male counterparts being inferior, the women should learn more about the men in this situation. The men should learn that the woman isn’t an uptight, high class woman, but the women should see that the men have a different concept of life that differs from their own thus creating a new world for them and destroying the upper class/lower class barrier. EVE learns this. Netyiri doesn’t…

EVE falls in love with Wall-E after realizing that he completely ignored his goals of trash cleaning and a whole world of toys to make sure she was alright. It’s quite romantic to move everything you have out of the way for someone. EVE learns that even though Wall-E is a curious, fun loving guy, his priorities are different then hers. She just wanted to do her objective. He wants to learn, and hey, look at that, I spent paragraphs calling love a learning experience. Neato. Their struggle is from EVE shutting down. We don’t know what will happen to her and since Wall-E is so head over heels for her, we feel sorry for him that even if he made just a new friend and not a love interest, he might have lost her forever. The struggle grows as Wall-E is on this ship, not knowing anything, causing trouble and almost dying multiple times. The end result of the humans falling in love with the concept of Earth is great, especially great since now Wall-E and EVE can be together in a natural era. It’s like a barrier breaking uniting 2 different sets of people…Hey…wow I said something like that earlier. This is weird. It’s like I’m making sense or something.

Like I mentioned Netyiri doesn’t learn from Jake, thus making nothing interesting about their love. He does all the learning, but hey that was his job right? That was EVE’s job, yet Wall-E and EVE both taught each other things. She taught him about objectives and priorities and what happened to humans and he taught her about fun and enjoying life. You might think, okay, love is vast (hmm…) so maybe this is different. Like maybe their struggle is different since he’s like a human in a fake avatar body thing and she has like a boyfriend and is a real Na’vi. They are too incompatible. Well both reasons are just as invalid as two different classes of people. You might think that having a boyfriend is in the way, and yeah it doesn’t help a situation, but is that really such a problem? In a world of cheating and divorce, “love” isn’t pure anymore and I have come to the conclusion that love does NOT equal sex.

Sex and love are two different things now. In this world having sex with someone you love is no different than the sex that people are paying for. Sex is about pleasure more so then love. That’s why we are living in a world of one night stands, prostitution, pornography…wait… Did you know these things have been around, since like forever? In fact, historians will tell you that the oldest job is prostitution. This is why Wall-E and EVE work. They can’t have sex. Just this fact gives you kind of an innocent charm to both characters. Like if they were some kids (wow, hey…) who didn’t have a sexual desire. Not even a pride desire that sometimes comes from sexual problems. Since sex is about pleasure, what will prevent Netyiri from going for another stupid human in an Avatar? What’s to say that Jake didn’t secretly go to his human friends and say that she was easy and now everyone is going for a try? Since we established already that she isn’t innocent and is just like humans, who would know what her sexual desire is like. Hell, what about Jake. He seems like an average guy, maybe he’ll go after a different woman. I mean, Netyiri did give him a list of doable Na’vi women. What’s to say they won’t get into a fight again and he leaves her for a night and does something he might regret? With how high divorce rates are now in 2010, how about in 2149? What if relationship commitments are even worse? Like I said, their relationship could be lust. Lust does lead to sex, and hey, they did do it. I wonder if the Na’vi calls the Missionary Position, Human Style…



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Alex V.1
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wow duzzy this is getting better and better
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Duzzy
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Humans in Wall-E vs. Humans in Avatar

What’s in this spicy chilli? Why it’s human! You mean cumin? Ya…sure

In Wall-E the humans fucked up this world and left on a giant ship thing. This ship has everything that they need. Food, clothes, fun, it’s like a big mall in a sense. It makes you wonder if the movie is saying a message like, “hey you know you have a big open world out there, why are you spending your time confined in a place of mass multi-media and whorish branding?” Of course this isn’t the BIG message of Wall-E. It’s quite subtle, but the BIG problem is the humans. They are so fat. Fat enough that they can’t even walk and rely on robots to do their doings and flying beds to float them to places.

Within this, they are all conformed to the media of the ship’s creation. The ship sets the trends, and the people listen. Suddenly this colour of space suit we all wear is uncool and a new cool is deemed cool and everyone switches to it. Specialty value meals are created to be popularized by everyone. In its essence, what the movie is saying is that with technology and ignorance of humanity and the environment, we are becoming products of the product. Think about it, how many times have we bought something because the commercial was convincing enough to us that we need it? Then how many of us have thrown that product off to the side after 2 weeks? We all have. The companies don’t care about the long run, they have your money and if your product is fine, they have your trust. It’s a message that is not only are we losing touch with humanity and the Earth; we are being controlled by technology.

After this, we establish already that we dislike this race of people. They are fat, lazy, conformists. Wait, isn’t like obesity on the rise? Isn’t fast food becoming more and more popular? Didn’t that fruit company make like millions of dollars off a phone that can turn your house lights off from any location in the world? You see when talking of the future, you are talking of the present. When making imagery in a movie, you have to exaggerate to get your point across. This giant ship of conformity, laziness, fatness and lack of appreciation of the environment represents us. If you think the fast food and fat thing is really a shot at America, then I understand. But you can’t deny the product power. Look at big cities in Japan. Ads…everywhere. Everywhere you turn, you are being told what to do.

You see in Avatar we hate the humans because they are greedy. They want this product called unobtanium, which could be the current equivalent of oil but is that really needed? Europeans didn’t invade and take over America for its resources. That’s why they traded all the time with the Middle East and Asia. They had the best silk, spices, and resources. America has nothing. It has trees and animals. Big deal. It would make more sense to make these humans after the world of Pandora and not just the product. It shows our unnatural instinct of taking over territories of our own personal gain. Now you might think this is greedy (which it is) but it’s different from product greed. Even natives were greedy of products the Europeans had. Hell even the Na’vi got Michelle Rodriguez to use her plane to help out.

I think I know what Cameron is going for, making like a general anti-war message, but isn’t the idea of seeing the destruction and chaos of war the message itself? It was in Full Metal Jacket. We saw suicide from insanity, a prostitute turning tricks for American money, a sniper take out a whole squad, and the sniper then begging that her life be ended. You get enough anti-war messages from the Na’vi retreating from the tree being destroyed. Although some humans like Rodriguez and Sigourney Weaver and some other douche whose name I can’t recall all switch sides based on what is right. But did you see the other people? The soldiers all look like they are going to go shoot a deer, drink a 24 of Bud Light, drive their truck to their shack and beat their wives in front of their painting of the Last Supper.

Cameron is saying this pretty much: war supporters are right wing red necks. Yes we know this, but classifying people won’t get the anti-war, anti-technology, environmental message across. Changing everyone’s political ideologies won’t achieve this goal. You have to find a way to make people understand through non stereotypical format. In Wall-E the humans are from Earth. They aren’t Americans saying Americans are lazy and fat. They are trying to expand it as a problem for everyone. When you look at Avatar, everyone seems American. Maybe if the humans were explored more, we can see they themselves have different believes and different cultures. Maybe make them look similar to the Na’vi as the Na’vi has different groups. Remember, when talking about the future, you are talking about the present. Other then the environmental and anti-technology messages that I fully get and understand and really appreciate and like; what are the humans representing other then stereotyping American, right wing idiots and corporate assholes? That we are all like that? I don’t get it, how do stereotypes represent everyone. How can an Asian man understand the stupidity and ignorance of these humans when he lives in a different world of stereotyping? Next thing we’ll find out, the bad guy of Avatar is an all American American rip off of Guile from Street Fighter. Ya right! And Wall-E’s villain will look like and be similar to Hal from 2001: A Space Odyssey. Wait, oh no….
Edited by Duzzy, Apr 26 2010, 12:33 AM.



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Villains in Wall-E vs. Villains in Avatar

Bring on the lawsuits!

Wall-E’s villain is the ship itself. In terms of this movie, it’s probably the weakest aspect, but because it’s a family movie, we do need a set person or persons to hate except for humanity. AUTO is its name and it’s an ass. The clear orders are to not return to Earth; however despite EVE finding plant life, making Earth liveable again, the ship captain wants to return home. Not right away, but after searching things that don’t exist anymore, he loved the concept. Even though the orders are to never return, I still think AUTO begins to feel his superiority of the humans. He sees they are helpless sheep who will do and eat whatever he wants them to.

Like mentioned, AUTO is a big rip off of Hal from 2001: A Space Odyssey, but nowhere near as interesting. The interesting thing about Hal was he had a great sense of pride in himself. Much like a human, but you see in 2001 the idea is the roles are reversed. Humans are like computers as inferior, emotionless, beings and Hal takes pride in his ability and denies that he is wrong. Something similar could not work for the villain because the idea of the movie is for all the robots to represent different human aspects. AUTO just follows orders and we are uncertain whether he actually feels that superiority. I guess it’s kind of a message of how we should be careful for technology, since once we program something to do something it will do it and not decide to not do something. It just feels unusual that in this sea of robots changing personalities, we have an actual real computer who doesn’t listen. Maybe AUTO represents stubbornness in society, but I think AUTO is really made just to pay homage to Hal.

Colonel Miles from Avatar looks like and reminds me of Guile from Street Fighter. When I saw the movie I looked over to my friend and said “This guy is so Guile” and he laughed and said “I was just thinking that”. After being told to shut up by an old man who we later crippled after the movie, I sat and saw that this character was really boring. He was such a stock villain. An asshole all American soldier. Even the name Miles means solider in Greek. Despite how stock he was, he was just funny to watch. As they are destroying the giant tree, he is standing there drinking coffee like nothing. I guess it’s to make us hate him even more by making him look smug, but who the hell would drink coffee out of a mug on a small harrier type of ship? What about a flask? You know, make him already ‘celebrating’ the victory and representing that he is reckless. Make him symbolize how we hire some of these military leaders who turn out to be fucking insane, reckless, people.

Ironically, he has his own type of Avatar. A giant mech-warrior that has a big knife. Maybe this in a way represents how humans can’t live on Pandora because of their impurity, but then I remember the Na’vi is a very prideful, vengeful, angry blue nation of people. This is my problem in terms of story; there is no balance in anything. The humans are all clearly evil and bad, but the Na’vi just seem like normal people. If they had maybe more purity like say kind of have a hippie style protest during the tree scene or maybe a large interest in studying the nature of Jake of seeing why the humans are greedy, sex driven, violent, uncaring people we would learn a lot more of the Na’vi’s purity thus making them clearly the people we want to root for. This why I find Miles boring, he’s just a prick and we can’t see why. We don’t see the development that he and the humans are really different from the Na’vi. Let’s do this as an example. Let’s say Jesus get’s tempted by Satan and refuses. However one day Jesus get’s really angry and decides to beat up a shop keeper or a solider or someone who denies his spirituality of being the son of God. Why would we continue to understand Jesus? He’s only refusing Satan because Satan is clearly there and clearly evil and Jesus is trying to show to him that he is a good person. If he doesn’t have a heart of gold and is as human as us, we can see that any of us can snap. That makes us lose interest in him. We see he’s human and thus maybe he isn’t the son of God and just some crazy preacher.

Both films though have really weak villains and I guess when making themes about anti-technology, environmentalism, anti-media, we need someone to take our frustration on instead of ourselves. It’s quite clear that the villains are us, but the film makers just can’t come out and say that. I’m not sure which villain is worse; AUTO seemed just there for no reason. I think Colonel Miles is actually a bit better. Even though we never really understand Miles motives or see the Na’vi as an unrealistic good kind group of people that we should strive for but can’t do to human limitations, Miles is more entertaining. He’s smug, evil, and tough. You can easily hate him more and wish for his death or failure more so then AUTO. AUTO can just be unplugged or something for a few hours. He’s not as much as a threat as a guy in a mech-warrior that has a comically large hunting knife. I guess it’s come to this…



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